christians stop saying ALL of the spiritual gifts people have are from the devil.

I was just recently on a thread where this "empath" christian girl was reaching out for help because she didn't know how to handle her gift. Her dad told her that she was "replacing Jesus" and that it was from the devil. I remember when I was young hearing it from people all over that these are the work of the devil as well.

Well:

1 corinthians 12:4-11 (NIV)

There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
Now to each one of the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. all these are work of one and the same spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines."

The 12th chapter of corinthians covers some issues on gifts. I would recommend those that are a little confused with their gift to read it, as it sheds some light on things.

So yeah, with this post, (or rather the verse therein), the question is answered.

Thank you for this post Just recently found out I wanted to become a healer This will be a good argument when I'll share my news with my extremely religious grandma!

reply to post by heyo


It's because, you should practice these things in secret, 'the Father rewards deeds done in secret'

Forgot what verse and it assume that those 'secret deeds' are good deeds like giving to a poor fella and not telling anyone about it, something like that.

You simply don't tell people you could do this in that, people could think you're boasting and find easy ways to take you down and say it's evil. Unless of course, you are in an emergency and no way you can do things discreetly.

The thread is not about who or where to practice, only that some of those who do it, in secret or "from the rooftops", are of God. Also, to suggest that you shouldn't say something because it might be misconstrued is something i find contrary to truth. How can a gift of toungues be useful without soemone wit the gift of translating them? to suggest these things cannot be talked about is product of the "veil".

reply to post by heyo


im a christian and i dont think th@t the gifts people have are from the devil. i think maybe god gave them these gifts for a reason

reply to post by heyo


i am with ya on this one. you have to understand though, some people take scripture very seriously when they think they are right, it can be interpreted that the gifts are no more until the latter-days, but that is just one interpretation.

i have reason to believe the gifts are alive and well.....

the reason that people think ¨gifts¨ today are from the devil is because of what it says in chapter 13

[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

it is also interesting to note that jesus said his followers would be identified by their love, not their powerful works. (john13:35)

What both charismatics and non-charismatics can agree upon is that the gifts mentioned in this verse will be "done away with" (in the case of prophecy and knowledge) and will "cease" (in the case of tongues). They would also agree that the reason these gifts will not continue forever is that they are inadequate - imperfect in relation to the "perfect" that is coming. Finally, they would agree that the gifts were operative in Paul's time and that the time of their cessation was a future event for him. The difference in interpretation lies in whether the gifts mentioned have ceased prior to our time, or whether they are still operative for us, as they were for Paul, and their cessation lies yet in the future.

A careful reading of the text demonstrates that Paul may be drawing a distinction between tongues on the one hand and prophecy and knowledge on the other. The latter two gifts will be "done away" with (katargeo). Tongues are said to "cease" (pauo). The "perfect" will actively "do away" with the "partial." Katargeo is in the passive voice, indicating that the coming of the "perfect" is the cause of the "partial" passing away. Tongues, however, will cease of themselves. Pauo is in the Greek middle voice, which is defined as "an action taken by the subject upon him, her, or itself" (Friberg). Thus, tongues will "cease" of themselves - not as a direct result of "the perfect" coming. If this is the case, Paul is not speaking definitively about when tongues will cease - only that when "the perfect" comes, tongues will no longer be operative in the church. "The perfect" will do away with prophecy and knowledge; but tongues will have ceased at some point prior to that event.source

i thought this was pretty interesting.

miriam is right to say love is the most important, clearly defined in this book.

i have also noticed from miriams post that tongues and prophecy are the gifts mentioned as being done away with. which is mentioned in 1corinthians, chapters 12-14, correct me if i am wrong.

there are obvious perversions of the gifts, especially the tongues movement. but from my point of view not all of the gifts are done away with according to the bible, if you believe the bible to be the inerrant word of god, which i dont.

i have always had a bad feeling about paul anyways, i get the feeling he was a fraud.

the scriptures i posted are not to say that god wont intervene in certain situations. but the gifts of holy spirit had a real purpose.

they helped to establish the early congregation. by the time the bible was completed, they were no longer needed.

i heard some put forth and early rains and late rains theory. i dont know much about it, but it would be interesting to see

These gifts are meant to be use for God's children. These gifts are meant to help save more souls and uplift the spirit. Just remember these gifts are only given to those who are saved. At the end of times their are many who are not saved and even those that claim to know Jesus are not saved. Satan has devils and they give power to his angels too. But the gifts that the OP is talking about and in the bible are from God. And anybody who believes that they're from the devil needs to read the bible more.

reply to post by miriam0566

they helped to establish the early congregation. by the time the bible was completed, they were no longer needed.

I was brought up with this type of thinking, Miriam, and I discovered it is flat out wrong (both by scholarship and by experience...more later*).

The purpose of the spiritual gifts is to edify the body of Christ. If you read through 1 Cor. 12-14 (all three chapters), you will see this. If one says that "we don't need these gifts anymore", they are, in effect, saying that the body of Christ doesn't need edifying.

...but I LIKE edification!

*the "later":

I struggled with this teaching for many years and I got very good at defending the "gifts-have-ceased" crowd:

I was one of them and...

...I was wrong.

I suppose it was just reading 1 Cor. 14:1 and trying to figure out if it was a verse that was given to ME (meaning today's Christians) or only to THEM (the Corinthians)... that got me thinking.

I HAD to allow that 1 Cor. 14:1 has just as much right to be in my Bible as the other verses I believe. I began to "allow" for the gifts to still be available to all Christians, though I had no a single shred of "proof".

I had never (even) heard anyone speak in tongues prior to this "allowing". I had no "outside" proof that they existed...at ALL!

Once I "allowed" that my Bible has something to say to me and 1 Cor. 14:1 is a verse for ME ALSO...I began to desire a spiritual gift.

I have met others (now) with spiritual gifts and I adore them. They have (often) a different gift than I do and I am edified by them and what they say and do. They are edified by me, also.

(Just like the Bible said the gifts were for...)

Originally posted by miriam0566
the reason that people think ¨gifts¨ today are from the devil is because of what it says in chapter 13

[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

it is also interesting to note that jesus said his followers would be identified by their love, not their powerful works. (john13:35)

Actually this verse in my opinion claims that without love these things shall cease. You must have love to have these things...maybe this was not a prerequisite before, and it became on then. What he's saying here is that you may have these gifts but without love they are nothing.

Originally posted by bellla198
reply to post by heyo

 

im a christian and i dont think th@t the gifts people have are from the devil. i think maybe god gave them these gifts for a reason

I 100% Agree With You. God himself allows humans (Free Will). It is like humans creates *a knife*. Doctors use knives to help the wounded, and there are other people in the world who does use knives to hurt and kill people. I honestly think that God allows humans to do whatever, if only the use of the tool is done is a good way.

Originally posted by heyo
Actually this verse in my opinion claims that without love these things shall cease. You must have love to have these things...maybe this was not a prerequisite before, and it became on then. What he's saying here is that you may have these gifts but without love they are nothing.

but it doesnt say that.

its comparing the two.

¨Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail¨

people have this tendency of tieing their faith to these ¨gifts¨. they think, i must be doing the will of god because look at all these signs! look at the people convulsing and speaking in togues! what about all those who had cancer and god healed them?!

jesus did NOT say that his followers would be known for powerful works.

john 13:[34] A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[35] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

in other words, god´s organization would not be known for their ¨tongues¨ or healing, but rather by how much they loved one another.

now here´s the tough question...

can a catholic say he loves his brother when he goes to war and kills other catholics? what does it say about the priest who bless both sides in the name of god?

what about protestants? muslims? jews?

what about those who kill people of other faiths? are they showing love? what does this say about their ¨gifts¨?

its dangerous to to put faith in wonders, the simple reason why is because satan has them too.

2 thess 2:[7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

god lets certain lies to continue. satan lies about true worship. he ambitous to turn people away from worshipping god.

[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

jesus´ coming reveals the lies that satan perpetuates. lies that satan encourages with ¨all power and signs and lying wonders¨

someone once share a link with me to this girl believed to be a saint. and the link goes on about her life story and all the miracles and supernatural events surrounding her. and it stunned me.

i thought how can this be the work of god coming from an organization that is corrupt, that is literally responsible for countless bloodshed, that disdains the bible by teaching pagan doctrines instead of god´s word.

yet, because of these ¨miracles of god¨, this man is now ready to lay his life down for this organization. an organization clearly not from god.

im not going to say all miracles are from satan. thats not true at all, but the miracles from god have a purpose. they serve to bring people close to him. if the miracle doesnt help a person to come to an accurate knowledge of god, then i suspect it.

I agree with Miriam. In Romans and the new testament(don't forget revelations). Jesus and Paul talk about how Satan will use false merciless and false prophecies(and false prophets). Just because you see some one doing merciless doesn't means they're saved. Like the bible said Satan is the father of lies. Satan lies, Satan use deception, Satan comes in peace and as a man of religion and yet Satan comes to destroy and kill(most importantly come for your soul). Look up the name Peter Popoff. He was a tv evangelist who what most called a faith healer.

Check this site out

en.wikipedia.org...

Check this Youtube video

www.youtube.com...

In fact their is alot of Faith Healers on TV right now. Who I believe most are fake. All those Faith Healers are doing it on TV. Like Peter Popoff was proven to be a False Prophet. And yet if you do a search on Youtube you can see many of his false merciless being done.

Gifts are not the mark God. Not even love is fully the mark of God because even the evil love their own. The Holy Ghost is the mark of God. The bible is a mark of God. What God does through us is a mark of God.

And again what Miriam said is real. Its all in the bible. What the bible says about truth and life is whats real. Not ones beliefs are, but what God created!!!!!!

reply to post by slymattb

false merciless being done.

I have been baffled by your use of this word for a few days. I think I finally understand what you mean to write? Are you talking about MIRACLES?

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
reply to post by slymattb

 

false merciless being done.

I have been baffled by your use of this word for a few days. I think I finally understand what you mean to write? Are you talking about MIRACLES?

yea i get confused sometimes too.

id probably be in the same boat if i didnt have my spell check on.

By bad I was using spell check and I didn't pay attention to that part.

reply to post by slymattb


Emphasis mine:

By bad I was using spell check and I didn't pay attention to that part.

slymattb, your "spell check" isn't going to correct the improper grammar you use constantly.

slymattb, I LIKE (I REALLY DO!) your enthusiasm for the Lord Jesus Christ but you are (often, to ME) quite careless in your spelling and grammar. When you make a post and try to get some conversation going, the entire post (is somewhat) diminished by your lack of proper spelling and grammar.

People will IGNORE your posts because of this, slymattb!

I can tell that you have a desire to be "heard", but, slymattb, you need to "earn" your audience. Careless mistakes in answers will never help your cause.

I, myself, make mistakes every now and then and I regret them. I'm not a "professional" writer. People will give you the same attention that you give them, it seems. If your posts (or replies) are filled with spelling and grammatical errors, it comes across as though you are either in 4th grade (and to be ignored) OR that English is not your first language OR that you are just being careless.

If you are illiterate, well...that is something that I am not able to deal with here on BTS. If this is the case, then I suggest that you BECOME literate for the Word of God's sake:

1 Cor 14:8-9 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

Please consider, slymattb, if a Bible (it doesn't matter what translation you use) had a SPELLING error in it? GRAMMATICAL error? Do you have any idea how often it would be mocked?

1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Religious debate isn't a "game", slymattb, and if I (or others) treat it like a game, God is not pleased. (YES, at times I've done this and I'm soon ashamed at my actions.)

Matt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle (lacking substance, value, or basis) word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

I think I've said enough. I don't mean to embarrass you, but only to encourage you.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

(Sometimes I need to hear the above verse myself...)

[edit on 16-12-2008 by PreTribGuy]

Sounds to me you dont have to listen. I might have grammical errors. But did it ever accur to you, that I just have a little bad english. I almost take offense to what you said. Parts of it I understand. But end the end I will still speak as the will of God commands me to speak. For you God bless.

Someone being illiterate is something I dont think you make fun of. And if I am mocked, so what I still spoke as the will of God intended.

And I really take offense to the fact you think I think that religious debate is a game. Life after death is no game. And thats why I post!!!

Let me say this I deffently don't post because of points. I think my score would show that. I post on the ATS and BTS so much right now, is because the ATS and BTS is the only church I have. If I have questions I bring them here. If I think there is something important to say that I learn or just understand I bring it to my brother and sister here on the ATS and BTS, why because I dont even really have friends in Christianity. I have came to ATS and BTS for spiritual uplifting here at the ATS and BTS because quit freakly I dont have anybody else. All those I put on my friends list I respect more than they know. Some of them have lives I could only wish to have. Why do some think I wanted a more united Christianity on the ATS and BTS I wanted more contact with those I respect. I feel alone most of the time and lost. But I have faith. God and Christ is no game to me. And to think you think that PreTrip well I just have no words.

And just for your info I been thinking about God and Christ so much right now that I am losing sleep. Lol Praise Jesus.!!!

Thanks anyway PreTrip I understand to a point. But I do take offense to some of the things you say. Everything I say, I say from what I believe is truth and it comes from the heart. And I take great care to make share that what I say is inline with scripture. Sorry man that I am not like you who probably been to college. I came from the streets man. And we all have differents lives. So what if God didnt grant me full set of english words. Go with God.

Sorry for the off topic Heyo. Pretrip if you want to respond lets do it by u2u. So not to destroy the thread!!!

[edit on 16-12-2008 by slymattb]