Heaven,As Empty As Hell.

When someone dies we think of them going to one of 2 destinations.

When we think of these destinations we get 2 very distinct images.

Eternal Pleasure.Eternal Suffering.

But there is a problem with this,a big one.
Heaven and Hell are both empty,for the time being.


Christian faiths tell us that when we die we will be judged and sent to 1 of 2 destinations.But that is an incorrect teaching.The Bible tell us that all will be resurrected first,the righteous and the wicked,

Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God,which they themselves also allow,that there shall be a resurrection of the dead,both of the just and unjust.

And that our judgement will only come after Jesus has returned.

Revelation 22:12

And,behold,I come quickly;and my reward is with me,to give to every man according as his work shall be.

During this judgment the Beast,the False Prophet,the Devil,Death and Hell itself will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 19:20

And the beast was taken,and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him,with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast,and them that worshipped his image.These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10/14

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,where the beast and the false prophet are,and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever....14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.This is the second death.

Along with these go,

Revelation 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8

But the fearful,and unbelieving,and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers,and sorcerers,and idolaters,and all liars,shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:which is the second death.

So,if our soul/spirit is not judged until that time,where are they now?
Are they in some kind of spirit world/prison awaiting judgment?

According to the Bible,yes they are.

1 Peter 3:18-19

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,the just for the unjust,that he might bring us to God,being put to death in the flesh,but quickened by the Spirit:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 4:6

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Now,apart from these few;the Beast,the False Prophet,the Devil,Death and Hell,the only humans unable to find redemption are those who have committed the Unforgivable Sin:blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 12:31-32

Therefore I say to you,any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man,it shall be forgiven him;but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit,it shall not be forgiven him,either in this age,or in the age to come

All this means that the righteous have yet to reach Heaven so there is no one up there looking out for us and the wicked are not being tormented in Hell as we speak.Also,many of the unbelievers and the wicked who are in the spirit world/prison still have a chance at redemption.

So,have these teachings of firey damnation being an immediate destination been a deliberate lie? Are they just an honest misunderstanding?

And if Hell is a place/concept,how can it be thrown into the Lake of Fire.



[edit on 27-11-2008 by jakyll]

i quess well see when we die , dont yu think?

Oh please. You're not onto anything, such a misleading and uncertain title this thread has, like you ever went to heaven. Anyway...

Thank you for the intellectual and stimulating debate.

Please call again soon.

I dont care...hopefully my dead rotting corpse will make some nice plant food...im fond of lilies...i think my years of mcdonalds and microwave meals would be good nutrients...that is the true afterlife...giving back to the system that created you...the earth needs love to...plus eternity of anything will get boring eventually...

I agree with what you have said Jakyll. I have held to this belief for a long time. It is clearly written that we will all have a second chance at salvation, everyone will be taught the truth but not everyone will accept it.

Another interpretation of the bible which supports your argument is that earth is to be remade into heaven. In this case how could any of us immediately go to heaven if it doesnt exist yet. What is your opinion on this?

In reality, more than any scriptures I look to the nde experiences, often from children, to determine that all the dimensions are full of people, higher and lower. And I've had a memory of a previous lifetime that shocked me out of my comfort zone, and put me at odds to how long the journey has been, and this is just a certain zone of it too. It took a week to start to feel normal, and was disturbing, not that I had discounted reincarnation until that time.

This is probably one of the best threads here to say what I mean: www.belowtopsecret.com...

I felt so humbled and happy just reading it.

Originally posted by Solomons
I dont care...hopefully my dead rotting corpse will make some nice plant food...im fond of lilies...i think my years of mcdonalds and microwave meals would be good nutrients...that is the true afterlife...giving back to the system that created you...the earth needs love to...plus eternity of anything will get boring eventually...

lol, eternity of anything is the reason man - in it's limited perspective exists in the first place.

Straight foolishness spoken by someone who believes anything not included in their personal reality is a lie. Learn to tell the difference between what exists in your perspective/reality, and is possible to exist outside it.

As for the OP. You could not exist for a million years and you would never know it. It would seem like a blink of the eye for you. You would only remember the last image/thought you had, and the next image/thought you had. As you are unaware of the time where you do not exist, you do not have a time gap.

What creates time is just the change of a limited perspective.

As such, in your perception it could be that you are judged after you die.

So it could still be true. When you understand time is an illusion, then it's kind of irrelevant.

Just forget bible. It's just bettime story.
There's no heaven or hell. And if there is i would rather go to hell. "All unbelievers will be thrown to lake of fire"???? Yeah right .... someone could try

P.S. : my post is just my opinion and it's not fact. And if someone don't like it .... I don't care

Deliberate lie or honest misunderstanding? I think it's obvious that christianity has been hijacked by pharisees. I remember reading quite clearly that judgement day does not occur until after the antichrist stuff, yet people still believed their relatives went to hell, heaven immediately. Christians and non! This wont make a difference tho, because the incorrect thinking on the subject is too imbedded in society.

I think people dwell to much on the importance of the words in the Bible.
In some way that is being an idolater, some people worship the Bible itself more than Jesus or God.
Clearly the Bible has been messed with so many times over History by so many different people for so many different reasons.
That only the most basic message should even be attempted to be extracted from it.
The more and more it gets analyzed, the more and more it goes around in circles.

I have blasphemed against the holy spirit...on more than one occasion...

So according to the bible, if heaven and god exists i will never be able to enter ?

Originally posted by Alucard Hellsing
I have blasphemed against the holy spirit...on more than one occasion...

So according to the bible, if heaven and god exists i will never be able to enter ?

Curious, prove this to me by explaining what you think that actually is. I'm betting you don't know if you have done so or not.

There is more.

I experienced a NDE 4 years ago.

Not wanting to reveal to much of my personal data and information online on ATS due to the 1984 scenario we all seem to be taken too i have been reticent to go into too much detail, as my views and such like stance and Info I have sometimes posted would not put me in a Green book as such if that time ever came... I always wanted to do a thread on it...

I have posted in some threads about it.

It's as real as your life now, not heaven and hell as such but realms, levels closeness or not to the Source/God...whatever your name and preference.

My own consciousnse judged me, not God.

you experience every thing you have ever said or done from the point of view of the person, animal that you spoke or acted upon.

It is a very humbling experience.

A very interesting person in this regard to learn about much research and findings is a psychiatrist Dr Brian Weiss.

Reincarnation as the early Christians taught, as Jesus, peter and Paul both write about is the truth.

Did not Jesus say John the Baptist was Elijah?

This is also found in Judaism, Hindu, and Buddhism etc etc

There are children now being hacked to pieces and starving being gang raped in parts of the world NOW.

Whilst others Now are being loved, have no concerns, are happy and laughing.

You don't have to look far except here to see Heaven and Hell and variations on it, in the material planes anyhow.

Dr Brian Weiss

also Dr Raymond Moody

Dr Moody

Repeated and massive amounts of proper research on the topics of NDE's

mystiq - A very good but old I recently read is " The children that time Forgot" a British book I think, but a friend has it so i cant give no more details sorry, very good indeed.

Kind Regards,

Elf

Something very very weird just happened,

I posted my above link blah blah on the fly as normal and anyhow as well as the Moody Bio above and Weiss

Moody has been as I just found out on ATS mix here,

but the thread was in recent posts with last post in Feb 08 it was there after I pressed post on the above post....

serendipity is normal and happens a lot coincidences like that....

But I have the TPTB to look at this how it was bumped with no contribution to the thread, and after I mention his name here, and I had the above NDE practically 4 years to the minute ago that I pressed post above!!!!

wow and spooky indeed!!!

anyhow listen to Moody and lets see what comes of this from ATS staff i hope they track stuff as I think they probably do...

Elf

ATS MIX Dr Raymond Moody

centrifugal

Another interpretation of the bible which supports your argument is that earth is to be remade into heaven. In this case how could any of us immediately go to heaven if it doesnt exist yet. What is your opinion on this?

Thats a good observation.As it says in Revelation 21:1

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;and there was no more sea.

Which echo's verse 17 from Isaiah 65.

For,behold,I create new heavens and a new earth:and the former shall not be remembered,nor come into mind.

badmedia

As such, in your perception it could be that you are judged after you die.

Interesting theory.
But i'm not talking about perception,i'm talking about what it says in the Bible.Judgement only comes after the return of Jesus.





heyo

This wont make a difference tho, because the incorrect thinking on the subject is too imbedded in society.

Very true.
I'm still amazed at people who follow a faith but know so little about it.And i don't mean just Christians,it happens in many religions.





Alucard Hellsing

I have blasphemed against the holy spirit...on more than one occasion...
So according to the bible, if heaven and god exists i will never be able to enter ?

Blaspheming against God and the Holy Ghost are not the same thing.
Against God,it is cursing or taking his name in vain.Against the Holy Spirit it is when a person sees clear evidence provided by the Holy Spirit,such as a miracle,yet is so against it that he rejects it.