Manufacturing Industry - The REAL Chem Trail

reply to post by Zaphod58


And here is the one trick I was talking about, asking for proof where it is near impossible as a diversion from the information I and others give which is: if people want to see they are out there and all they have to do is keep looking up.

You don't have to prove experience, you have it. All I am saying is that you can easily have the experience. That said, if another sighting happens I will make an effort to further document it, as will others. And most likely the theoretical left brainers will keep denying it, because it's just what you do, and so will the debunkers and the scared. None of this will alter the reality of the phenomenon or the awakening of those that chose to believe me.

People having theirs heads stuck up the business end of a turbojet or launching weather baloons does not alter the reality of this situation.

And yet AGAIN, I live near one of the busiest airports in the world. I have NEVER seen a "chemtrail" and I look up more than I look down. I live near two or three major air force bases, and where Lockheed Martin has a major facility for building aircraft. I have NEVER seen a "chemtrail". I have never seen any planes flying around suspiciously. I have never seen any "unmarked white planes" that chemtrail believers always say are flying around. I have never seen anything that you and others claim to have seen. I have thousands of planes flying over my head a year, and yet I've never seen a chemtrail once.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Sound familiar, or are you not as scientifically minded as you think you are?

reply to post by Zepherian


They look up, see a contrail, and because they don't understand what it is, conjure up some fanciful, illogical explanation involving a ridiculously inefficient plot by some shady characters to do something they have yet to understand.

If you think looking up is evidence, you really don't understand rational investigation.

Originally posted by Zepherian

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Sound familiar, or are you not as scientifically minded as you think you are?

But yet somehow absence of proof is proof that it's happening? Every single time a chemtrail thread pops up the most proof that is provided is "I can see the difference." Every other bit of proof, like barium, has another source that it can be coming from. But it always comes back to "Look up, you can see the difference." How is that proof?

reply to post by Zaphod58


There is plenty of evidence, enough for any rational individual to consider the phenomenon proven, or at least to go outside and investigate. My testimony is evidence. The testimony of probably hundreds of thousands of other people is evidence. The massive amounts of documentation thrown up on the web, which most of you folks try to ignore is evidence.

Now, this is not a scientific experiment that you can easily setup and prove the theory hypothetised. No, this is a conspiracy. If you want to keep playing with your chemistry set, fine, nothing I can do. But if you want to join the grown ups you will have to accept that hard proof on this matter, if found, will be buried. Whatever is going on is high stakes and probably pretty sinister if history is an indication.

Dave420: I'm about done with you. All your posts are ad hoc and while I've taken you on to show your logic and motives are questionable, we are just going in circles and little is achieved besides energy being drained.

reply to post by Zepherian

You said: "My testimony is evidence. The testimony of probably hundreds of thousands of other people is evidence. The massive amounts of documentation thrown up on the web, which most of you folks try to ignore is evidence."
If this is true, then the testimony of those who see only contrails is equally valid. The massive amounts of documentation on the web saying that there is no conspiracy, which all believers try to ignore, is evidence of no conspiracy.

reply to post by Zepherian


So basically you just "know". You can't quantify how you know, or what distinguishes a chemtrail from a contrail. You can't even explain that. And we're the bad guys for not rolling over and believing in something that has absolutely no substantiating evidence, short of anecdotal, intrinsically-flawed testimony. Brilliant.

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

There is plenty of evidence, enough for any rational individual to consider the phenomenon proven, or at least to go outside and investigate.

Indeed there is.

Here are just a few dozen of the many papers written by people who have studied the phenomena over the past few decades.

We know what it is. We have a pretty good idea of how and why it occurs. And nowadays we even know what some of its effects are - though a lot of current research is still going on in this field.

Until someone comes along to show all this research is flawed, I'd say case closed

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by Zepherian

 

You said: "My testimony is evidence. The testimony of probably hundreds of thousands of other people is evidence. The massive amounts of documentation thrown up on the web, which most of you folks try to ignore is evidence."
If this is true, then the testimony of those who see only contrails is equally valid. The massive amounts of documentation on the web saying that there is no conspiracy, which all believers try to ignore, is evidence of no conspiracy.

The existance of one phenomenon is not disproof of another. That's just a mediocre rhetorical trick some of you have been caught into. "See, this is an orange, logically there are no apples!" or "People know how to eat an orange, so logically you can't eat apples!" is basically what you guys are saying with the whole contrail trip. I am full aware of what a contrail is. But when you see an A340 flying at a fraction of it's normal cruise altitude laying down a thick persistant spray right in front of your house, which along with the other planes envolved turns a beautifull day into a grey slush you know it's not a contrail. It was covert ops wheather manipulation, which is not needed here as we have almost perfect wheather and certainly has to have a sinister agenda. Keep talking about oranges if you want, I'm not accepting the argument.

reply to post by Essan


People know the research is flawed, people realise now that the establishment of academia is corrupt and submitted to the rule of money.

Any intelligent person will not descredit his own experience for the theoretical study of who knows who, who knows where.

There are literally thousands if not hundred of thousands of ad hoc studies, ad hoc being a buzzphase I guess, going around. People are just trying to use their academic titles to ad authority to their agendas.

I have vast experience with the academic world. It's, with some exceptions, mostly bs. So yes, I will reject studies that counter common sense, and so should any intelligent free thinking individual. Between the hubris and the corruption academia is pratically damned.

reply to post by Zepherian


Well said Zepherian. star for you

Every Day more people become aware of the seriousness of the Chemtrail phenomenon. Their existence has already been confirmed and admitted.

This thread will allow members to distinguish between members who contribute and show a genuine effort to convey the truth and those who obfuscate, sidetrack and contribute nothing beneficial - and whose efforts oft betray a greater agenda and a coordinated effort.

This is important because certain issues such as this require the participation of Honest people and genuine concerted efforts. People's health depends on it, and the ramifications of this are so numerous and detrimental that it is the duty of all Good citizens to expose this malevolent activity.

If anything, new members will be able to distinguish between these citizens and those whom we call disinformationists, misinformationsts, repeaters, and the habitual reactionary debunkists and the like.

By reading only the last few pages of this thread New members will know who they can trust and who is here to sidetrack them and stop them from making any important discoveries or preventing them from sharing the discoveries they themselves have made. This is a good thing.

I would like to thank all of those who have contributed to this thread and helped to unmask those few, a swell as for contributing priceless information and bringing so concisely to this one location so much information relevant to the chemtrail phenomenon.

I think we are dealing with Star Wars. It involves the combination of chemtrails for creating an atmosphere that will support electromagnetic waves, ground-based, electromagnetic field oscillators called gyrotrons, and ionospheric heaters. Particulates make directed energy weapons work better. It has to do with "steady state" and particle density for plasma beam propagation.

They spray barium powders and let it photo-ionize from the ultraviolet light of the sun. Then, they make an aluminum-plasma generated by "zapping" the metal cations that are in the spray with either electromagnetics from HAARP, the gyrotron system on the ground [Ground Wave Emergency Network], or space-based lasers. The barium makes the aluminum-plasma more particulate dense. This means they can make a denser plasma than they normally could from just ionizing the atmosphere or the air.

More density [more particles] means that these particles which are colliding into each other will become more charged because there are more of them present to collide. What are they ultimately trying to do up there -- is create charged-particle, plasma beam weapons.
Chemtrails are the medium - GWEN pulse radars, the various HAARPs, and space-based lasers are the method, or more simply:

Chemtrails are the medium -- directed energy is the method.

Spray and Zap.

This system appears to be in Russia, Canada, the United States, and all of Europe. Exotic weapons can be mobile, stationary, land-based, aerial, or satellite.

It is an offensive and defensive system against EM attacks and missiles. It uses ionospheric particle shells as defense mechanisms [like a bug-zapper shell]* against missiles and EM attacks. That means they spray and then pump up the spray with electromagnetics. When these shells are created using the oscillating, electromagnetic, gyrotron stations, it "excludes" and displaces the background magnetic field. These shells can be layered one above another in a canopy fashion for extra protection from missiles. The chemtrail sprays have various elements in them like carbon which can used to absorb microwaves. Some of these sprays have metal flakes in them that make aerial craft invisible to radar. Spoofer sprays. Sprays like these can be used to create colorful, magnetized plasmas to cloak fighter jets.

There are satellite weapons involved. Activists are using meters and are getting readings of microwaves, x-rays, and some other kind of emission that they are not sure of, maybe a low-intensity laser.

They are also photographing gas plasma generation due to the heating of chemtrails by electromagnetics. The technical names for vertical and horizontal plasma columns are columnar focal lenses and horizontal drift plasma antennas. Various size of gas plasma orbs are associated with this technology. These orbs can be used as transmitters and receivers because they have great, refractory and optical properties. They also are capable of transmitting digital or analog sound. Barium, in fact, is very refractive -- more refractive than glass.

What does that mean? Someone or someones are very involved in unconstitutional, domestic spying and the entrained plasma orbs carried on electromagnetic beams can be used for mind control programming. The satellites can be programmed to track and monitor various frequencies on different parts of your body. These electromagnetic beams carrying the gas plasma orbs stick due magnetic polarity and frequency mapping and tracking to people's eyes, ears, temples, and private parts. A beam with entrained orbs carries pictures in each orb just like the different frames in a movie. It is a particle beam that is also a frequency weapon.

The satellites download holographic mind control movies, pictures, sounds, and sensations to people through this technology. The Air Force has stated in "Air Force 2025" that their goal is to develop virtual and augmented reality mind control. Depending on the how the computer is programmed or depending on the mood or intent of the person interfacing with the technology, you can be probed, bothered, gaslighted, frightened, manipulated, electronically raped, or tortured. It scans your brain frequencies and deciphers your thoughts. The satellites track you by mapping your bioenergetic signature [body biometrics] and constantly scanning an area to find you.

We are the lab rats for this technology and something is very wrong in the military or intelligence branches somewhere. Because developmental projects in government and military are often so compartmentalized, I suppose someone could be using and developing this technology secretly and without authorization. Then again, behavioral and mind control programs were an authorized policy under MKULTRA. Our country has a history of experimenting on its citizens.

*Keep up the good work Zepherian.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by Canadianduder]

Originally posted by Canadianduder
reply to post by Zepherian

 

By reading only the last few pages of this thread New members will know who they can trust and who is here to sidetrack them and stop them from making any important discoveries or preventing them from sharing the discoveries they themselves have made. This is a good thing.

I gotta admit, I stopped reading right there.

Read only the last few pages? Strangely enough the last few pages have been going off topic.

Yeah that's a good way to deny ignorance isn't it.

So do you have any kind of rebuttal to the opening post?

If you don't, then find one of the other threads to spread your scare mongering.

The original intention of this thread isn't to debate chemtrails existence, it was to present some facts that most people, like yourself, decide to ignore.

Don't you think it is more plausible that emissions from industry is doing more harm to us than some half baked notion that planes are poisoning us?

OK I've spotted another thing that I feel needs to be addressed:

The Air Force has stated in "Air Force 2025" that their goal is to develop virtual and augmented reality mind control.

Did you read the DISCLAIMER of that article? Or is that why you failed to provide a link to it.

Oops I found a link to it.

Disclaimer
2025 is a study designed to comply with a directive from the chief of staff of the Air Force to examine the concepts, capabilities, and technologies the United States will require to remain the dominant air and space force in the future. Presented on 17 June 1996, this report was produced in the Department of Defense school environment of academic freedom and in the interest of advancing concepts related to national defense. The views expressed in this report are those of the authors and do not reflect the official policy or position of the United States Air Force, Department of Defense, or the United States government. This report contains fictional representations of future situations/scenarios. Any similarities to real people or events, other than those specifically cited, are unintentional and are for purposes of illustration only. This publication has been reviewed by security and policy review authorities, is unclassified, and is cleared for public release.

A nice piece of UNCLASSIFIED fiction don't you think?



[edit on 8-12-2008 by Chadwickus]

reply to post by Zepherian

What you are using as evidence is observation. There are many observers, some with your belief but many more without it. If observation is a valid “proof”, it cuts both ways.
Your argument seems to be based entirely on your ability to visually discriminate between contrails and chemtrails. What you are saying is that, at all times, your super-eyesight can determine the height of an aircraft, the temperature of the air surrounding the aircraft, the relative humidity of the air surrounding the aircraft, and the difference between water vapor or ice contrail and something else. You also seem to know the root cause of changing weather when the many aircraft have turned a beautiful day into a gray slush. No day that started out beautiful ever evolved into a gray, cloudy or misty day before. Airplanes flew past in the sky, so they must be the causal agent.
Some find this “evidence” lacking and we ask for something more tangible than your feelings about “wheather (sic) manipulation.”
To bring this thread back to where it belongs, do any think that water vapor from cooling towers contains anything but water vapor? Industrial output would be a far better way to dose the surrounding area with something than the tortuous methods of fake airplane contrails.

reply to post by Zepherian


It has become far too obvious; the "Debunkers" on this thread are clearly Feigning ignorance of the vast amounts of relevant literature and research that is available.

Notice how their ad hoc reactionary debunking never contains any of the qualities one might expect from a properly formed rebuttal - no counterpoints, no citations, and never, will you ever find a point by point refutation by any of these 'debunkers' - for them, blatant mischaracterization, ad hominem attacks, and defamatory misquoting will often suffice to complete their primary objective.

Their feigned terminological inexactitude, ignorance and lack of capability to exert any intellectual rigour - combined with their shear force of numbers and unnecessary quantity of unsupported posts is often enough to overwhelm and bury even the most pertinent data and most important contributions relevant to the topic.

I believe this to be their primary objective.

Originally posted by Canadianduder
reply to post by Zepherian

 

It has become far too obvious; the "Debunkers" on this thread are clearly Feigning ignorance of the vast amounts of relevant literature and research that is available.

Notice how their ad hoc reactionary debunking never contains any of the qualities one might expect from a properly formed rebuttal - no counterpoints, no citations, and never, will you ever find a point by point refutation by any of these 'debunkers' - for them, blatant mischaracterization, ad hominem attacks, and defamatory misquoting will often suffice to complete their primary objective.

Their feigned terminological inexactitude, ignorance and lack of capability to exert any intellectual rigour - combined with their shear force of numbers and unnecessary quantity of unsupported posts is often enough to overwhelm and bury even the most pertinent data and most important contributions relevant to the topic.

I believe this to be their primary objective.

No, what has become obvious is people like you have taken this thread WAY off topic.
You're right though, the debunkers are clearly ignorant of the vast amounts of relevant literature and research that is available.

Remember what the topic of THIS thread is? That makes YOU the debunker.

In short, no one has proven what I have shown in the OP as wrong, therefore your silence of that specific topic means I have found the truth.

So I ask again, can you show what is being sprayed?

reply to post by Canadianduder


It's become even more obvious that you are Truthtellist under a different username - no wonder only you and he have ever heard of your imaginary NATO defence grid

Were you banned under your old username or are you just breaking forum rules for fun?

reply to post by Canadianduder


What I know about chemtrails is that they mess up the weather, and we here have near perfect weather that needs no augmentation, and that they make people sick. I do believe they have a technological strata, some sort of purpose, and I have seen the orbs you talk about, once. The way they evolve does indeed suggest some sort of directed energy, but I'm not experienced enough with those sort of technologies to comment.

To be honest I just wish this would stop, even if this meant the people responsible just keeled over and died. Maybe that's a good directed thought experiment, eh? Whatever is happening is a grave sin against life, as it is cutting on solar exposure and is messing up the water cycle. People indeed need to realise soon what is being done against them and start the healing process.

reply to post by Zepherian


If you want to stop "chemtrails", stop flying. Simple as that. But otherwise, until we develop technology to prevent them forming, we just have to live with it - and with the implication for weather and, more specifically, climate (they only really affect weather insofar as they lead to less direct solar radiation on hotter days - which some might say is a good thing - but cause more reflected radiation on cooler days and at night, meaning slightly warmer temps - which I think is a bad thing)

Of course, you're welcome to ignore decades worth of research on the subject and hold differing opinions. Just some of us prefer fact over faith.