Evidence in Scripture disproving god once and for all

A source or a God has to be real. There is no other explanation.

It doesn't Mather what the deniers say. They read science but they dont even understand that.

I am going to put it simple.

A infinite space that has no Finite cant ever have a happening,evolution or what ever you might imagine.

A infinite space that has no finite cant have a parallel dimension within it self that has finite. That's Impossible.

Now a Finite cant ever be infinite. Look it up.

So a infinite space that has no Finite would be a beginning that has nothing no happening no evolution or anything.

BUT......If you put a infinite amount of Finite into the Infinite space you would get one hell of a happening. Now that's creation.

What can put a Finite into a infinite space to create a happening.

Well there has to be somehing. A source.

What name we give that source is our creator.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by nj2day


Would you agree with this statement?:

Every one's character represents the God they understand.

I attended Church's and bible studies, I also watched many television evangelists. After 40 years I came to the conclusion that Christianity has left behind a legacy of suffering, cruelty, death, executions, and wars. I found modern Churches to be filled with gossips, slanderers, back biters, psychotics, and mean spirited people motivated by jealousy, envy, pride, and wrath. They talk the talk but do not walk the walk. They are hypocrites: sucking and blowing at the same time. A literal translation of the Bible is unrealistic and dangerous. Indeed, nearly all serial killers quote scriptures and attended churches, mostly fundamentalist churches.
Literalists are "Bible huggers". The Bible is their God, when in reality it is mere paper and ink. To rely on paper and ink is to deny the power of God. It's Bible worship and idolatry.

"Having a form of godliness they deny the power thereof".

The Bible reveals what the power of God is, so why have so many generations of Christians denied the power of God? Could it be that it is too simple for the arrogant mind to believe? The ego loves to flatter itself by believing it has uncovered a great mystery or that it has been blessed by some spiritual wisdom hidden from others. Discovering the simple does nothing for the ego. The ego of fallen man is what blinds him from the simple truth concerning the power of God. The power of God is found in his nature. From the perspective of fallen man, the power of God is that which redeems, regenerates, enlightens, transforms, illuminates and unites him back to God.

Of course if one does not believe man is in a fallen state, having a mind governed by earthly passions, then this will all be foolishness.

I have come to believe that Adam and Eve refers to a family of beings, not simply one male and one female. I believe they were created as immortal beings with the characteristics, nature, and temperament of divine angels. I believe they had free will, and were not controlled. They rebelled against their creator. As a result of their rebellion, this race was punished with a temporal, mortal, physical, earthly existence, given to earthly passions and tempers, separated from the divine nature.
Our desire to know God, obtain knowledge, attain higher levels of consciousness, enlightenment, illumination etc. comes from the vacant hole within the human soul which, if I can use this analogy, contains the dried up seed of eternity that once was our eternal state as illuminated angelic beings that lived in eternity, one in spirit with God.

Fallen nature= covetousness, envy pride and wrath. All selfishness and cruelty proceeds from it.
Divine nature= humility, meekness, patience, love of God. All unselfish acts of brotherly love, kindness, forgiveness, etc proceed from it.

By turning from the one you turn to the other. You can't suck and blow at the same time. I can hear the Christians saying: what about Jesus? what about the cross? what about confession? what about the blood? Answer: Jesus was the divine nature incarnate. By turning to the divine nature you are turning to all that he is. As it is written, "in your patience you possess your souls" and "imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promise" and "put off the old man and put on the new man being created in Christ Jesus" and "put on a heart of compassion, kindness, gentleness, humility, patience; forgiving one another and forbearing with one another in love." There is no other way of honoring him, showing faith in him, showing love toward him, being like him, or walking with him.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by John Matrix]

[edit on 23-12-2008 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by spy66
A source or a God has to be real. There is no other explanation.

that your willing to accept

this just means you wont believe anything that doesnt fit, just accept theres other possabilities and deal with it

i accept there may be a god or a higher power of sorts at work, even if the odds are rather slender

why is it so hard for you to accept there may be a possability that doesnt fit what you insist must be?

It doesn't Mather what the deniers say. They read science but they dont even understand that.

we could more then likley say the same to you, but probabily not the science bit as you didnt seem to touch on it

I am going to put it simple.

here we go again

A infinite space that has no Finite cant ever have a happening,evolution or what ever you might imagine.

now prove theres anything thats infinate

and also deffine what you mean by space, if you meant it the astrophysics/astronomy sense space isnt infinate

A infinite space that has no finite cant have a parallel dimension within it self that has finite. That's Impossible.

although the infinate would be excluded from the rules of the finate bubble of space, thats pressuming it had any natural laws

Now a Finite cant ever be infinite. Look it up.

dont need to, no one to my knowledge in this conversation has said it can

it would be like saying 1 meter can actually be a kilometer long, its silly so why point it out?

So a infinite space that has no Finite would be a beginning that has nothing no happening no evolution or anything.

ummm what?

i think your trying to say somthing that is infinate is infinate, altough you swap eternbal and infinate around at will, could you clarrify a little?

BUT......If you put a infinite amount of Finite into the Infinite space you would get one hell of a happening. Now that's creation.

no thats putting finite in to part of an ifinate thing

that alone wont casue a mass reaction

What can put a Finite into a infinite space to create a happening.

ooo is this a joke .... i dont know what can put finite into a infinate space to create a happening?

and what exactly is a happening?

Well there has to be somehing. A source.

great but you havnt proven anything as most every step is based on nothing but speculation and insistance

so its a possability but a very slim one, which is exactly what it has always been

and is no more or less valid then god wiggaling his nose and saying abracadabra

the rainbow snake making it all at it travleded through the nothing

the purple cookie monster of doom
dropping crumbs form his favorite cookie which formed the galaxy

simply becasue it all relises on faith, you need faith that somthing is infinate that this infinate could make finite things or that there was someone/thing else there to sprinkle a little finite around etc etc

just say we dont know yet and be honest



[edit on 23/12/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by noobfun
the purple cookie monster of doom
dropping crumbs form his favorite cookie which formed the galaxy

Wow! I found another believer!
May the cookies be upon you sir.

reply to post by noobfun


Dude it dosent mater if there is a infinite amount of possibilities. There would still, Only be one source to begin with.

Why dose anything need to be infinite. Well everything needs a place to be. Thats common sense.

Dude you need to get these three things strait in this logic.

1. Infinite
2. Finite
3.Source.


Put these three in to the logic of a creation and you will be a lot smarter.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by spy66

Dude it dosent mater if there is a infinite amount of possibilities. There would still, Only be one source to begin with.

yes but that doesnt neccessarily mean that source is its self eternal or omnipotent or intelligent infact theres no way to place any charachteristics or descriptives to it until we found out what that source was

it just means there was a thing, probabily

Why dose anything need to be infinite. Well everything needs a place to be. Thats common senss

but finite can contain finite

we could be in an eternal chain of finite states

you keep insisnting it must have qualities it doesnt neccesarily have to have

say it with me, "we simply dont honestly know" so pretending its a deity of any sort is currently pointless as it could be any possible deity including ones we dont know about or it could be a natural phenomena or a collision of brain worlds or one of a billion other possabilities

Originally posted by noobfun

Originally posted by spy66

Dude it dosent mater if there is a infinite amount of possibilities. There would still, Only be one source to begin with.

yes but that doesnt neccessarily mean that source is its self eternal or omnipotent or intelligent infact theres no way to place any charachteristics or descriptives to it until we found out what that source was

it just means there was a thing, probabily

Why dose anything need to be infinite. Well everything needs a place to be. Thats common senss

but finite can contain finite

we could be in an eternal chain of finite states

you keep insisnting it must have qualities it doesnt neccesarily have to have

say it with me, "we simply dont honestly know" so pretending its a deity of any sort is currently pointless as it could be any possible deity including ones we dont know about or it could be a natural phenomena or a collision of brain worlds or one of a billion other possabilities

Now your getting some where.

God is just the element. And yes we dont know what that element is. But we have given IT a name.

And Yes Finite can contain and make other finite things.

And finite can make something that can last eternaly. But only within and only within the space of the Infinite. Or it would have no place to be.

So the steps would be something like in this order.

(1) A infinite. (2) A source (3) Finite. (4) A creation.






[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

It seems to me, there is a bunch of incest in the Bible. Was it not looked at the same way back then? Was it ‘okay’ to sleep with your father, sister, child, whatever?

30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. 31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.Gen 19:30-36 (KJV)

Here we have Lot and his two daughters fleeing to the caves just after God had destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for being ‘evil’. Lot’s wife had also just been turned to a pillar of salt for looking back at the home she so loved being burned. Lot’s family had escaped because it was the only family that God thought worthy enough to live through it. So, what happens? Lot’s two daughters get him drunk and sleep with him because they want to preserve his seed. Their mother just died and possibly their sisters and brothers and several friends and what do they think about? Getting their father drunk to sleep with him. And they were they worthy ones?


This is why I had a problem with god. It was ok to do bad things in certain circumstances? And someone will make an excuse for this? If this happened today, Lot would be locked up for life as a child molester.

Originally posted by spy66


Now your getting some where.

some how i dought we are

God is just the element. And yes we dont know what that element is. But we have given IT a name.

wtf? what that element is ... which element? hydrogen that formed our finite universe? but how do you know that had anything to do with the state they may have existed before

or are you pretending we know more then we actually do, an element cant create anything its self either

or are you talking about an element that noone else knows about that you have studied and idnetified and observed?

or just more misuse of scienitific terms?

And Yes Finite can contain and make other finite things.

yes it can finally it seems you are making progress

And finite can make something that can last eternaly.

last eternally yes possably, but not be eternal

But only within and only within the space of the Infinite. Or it would have no place to be.

finite things exist in a state of finite

there doesnt need to an infinate

an eternal state of finite works too

an eternal chain of finite chanaging states


again say it with me "we just dont know so speculation leading to making things up to have faith in is pointless and declaring it god in what ever menaing you have for the word is just as pointless"

[edit on 23/12/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by noobfun


I know its hard

So the steps would be something like in this order.

(1) A infinite source (2) Finite. (3) A creation.

Originally posted by spy66

I know its hard

So the steps would be something like in this order.

(1) A infinite source (2) Finite. (3) A creation.

or somthing like

eternal chain of finite states

finite state > change > finitie state > change > finite state

its hard to figure out why you insist it must be that way with no evidence and alternate just as viable possabilities

such as

2 eternal finitate brain states colide, that collision kickstarts the bigbang

[edit on 23/12/08 by noobfun]

What is the meaning of Life?
Is there a God?
Who or what is God?
Why were we born?
Why are we all even Alive? For what?
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Why are we Concious?
What exactly is a "Soul"?
Are "Soulmates" real?
Are Ghosts real?
What happens when we die or even before we are born?
Does reincarnation occur?
Are we Alone in the Cosmos?
Do Aliens exist?
How did mankind appear on earth?
What happened to the Dinosaurs?
Does Heaven or Hell exist?
Are Angels Real?
Does the Devil exist?
How much truth is there in the Bible?
What is the Purpose of the Universe and our own role in it?
Why was the invention of the WHEEL a big step backwards for man?
Why does Nobody remember what was the purpose of the Great Pyramid and how to build it?
What is the Bermuda Triangle?
What happened to Advanced civilizations and continents like Atlantis & Lumeria?
Are we to Face a Global Catastrophe?When? What? Why?
What can we do? To Dream or to Act? How Can we change the SYSTEM Peacefully?

WHY is it not enough to believe?

And so What?.....................................................................................

If you are truly interested to learn the answers to at least one of the above question - you will be absolutely fascinated by the following. Key information and details it contains cannot be found in anything on Earth. Coherence and precision of information surprises scientists on all continents.

This clarifies practically ALL myths, doctrines and mysteries on Earth and reveals clear logic, beauty and majesty of the Universe, in which EVERYONE OF US has important role to play.

There are no theories in this. No wishful thinking or products of imagination of the author. This is an exact report of the Reality of the Universe.

There will be people who will not understand this at all, even though it is written using a simple language, with words and examples comprehensible even by children. If people don`t understand this - it is because they don`t WANT to. There will be also others, who won't even TOUCH this. Leave them in peace. Maybe they are not yet evolved enough, or maybe they don't want to learn how much they don't know. There is no point in encouraging a kindergarten kid to study psychology or physics - a kid is simply not yet ready for it.

This is not a Religous writing. Religion and politics are in fact two of the worst curses of society. No matter how much we insist on defending our current beliefs, doctrines and traditions, nothing can change the TRUTH and the order established in the Universe. Rivers will always flow from their sources towards the ocean, even if a single religion, sect or billions of people want to believe the opposite.

"They have eyes but they do not see-

Ears, and they do not hear......."

-The Bible-

...................................................................................................................................................... ................

"You are welcome among us,. May The Great Spirit assist and enlighten you. The others echoed: May The Great Spirit enlighten you. Now, once and for always, we will teach you and provide you with what you French call "The Key to the Mystery."

"As you have heard, In the beginning there was nothing except darkness and a spirit - THE Great Spirit- and He created, by his immense force, all that exists materially. The Great Spirit - the Superior Intelligence decided to create the worlds and He commanded to four superior forces...

The Great Spirit was, and is, infinitely powerful - powerful beyond the comprehension of any human mind. The Great Spirit is so powerful that it was able, by the action of its will alone, to trigger an atomic explosion with chain reactions of unimaginable force. In fact, the Spirit imagined the worlds - He imagined how to create them - from the most enormous to the most minuscule. He imagined the atoms. When He imagined them He created, in His imagination, all that ever moved and will move: all that ever

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


lol that's a good point.
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for sexual "wrongs", and yet the one's he chose worthy of life did the same thing after they fled the city lol.
The Bible falls one more notch on the "this makes sense scale". I think it's at a -40 now...

moved and will move: all that ever lived and will live; all that is motionless, or seems to be - every single little thing.

But it existed only in his imagination. All was still in darkness. Once He had an overall view of what He wanted to create, He was able, by his exceptional spiritual force, to create, instantaneously, the four forces of the Universe.

With these, He directed the first and the most gigantic atomic explosion of all time - what certain people on Earth call The Big Bang. The Great Spirit was at its center and induced it. Darkness was gone and the Universe was creating itself according to the will of The Great Spirit.

The Great Spirit was thus, is still, and always will be, at the center of the Universe for He is the Master and Creator of it...

He created the planets, the suns, plants, animals, with one goal in mind: to satisfy his spiritual need. This is quite logical since He is purely spirit. Already I see you are wondering why the need to create material things in order to attain spiritual fulfilment. I offer this, by way of explanation: the creator sought spiritual experiences through a material world."

"In order to have these experiences, He wanted to embody a tiny part of his Spirit in a physical entity. To do this, He called on the Fourth force - A Force of and which concerns only spirituality. In this domain, Universal Law also applies.You most certainly know that the pattern of the Universe dictates that nine planets revolve around their sun or suns, sometimes 9 planets revolve around two small suns, twin stars. It is also the case that these suns revolve around a bigger sun, which is the nucleus for 9 such suns, and their 9 planets. So it continues, right to the center of the Universe from where the explosion referred to by the English as the Big Bang originated.

During billions of years. For the Creator of course, it is eternally the present, the eternal now, but it is more at the level of our understanding to count by billions of years.

All the worlds, suns and atoms were formed, as you are taught in schools, the planets revolving around their suns, and sometimes with their own satellites etc. At certain times in certain solar systems, some planets cool down - soil is formed, rocks solidify, oceans are formed and landmasses become continents.

Needless to say, certain accidents occur and sometimes a planet will be destroyed in a solar system, or perhaps a new one may enter it, but later in time, the solar system will revert and base its structure again on the number 9.

The Fourth force had a very important role to play: it had to bring to fruition all that The Great Spirit had imagined. At the very beginning, The Great Spirit imagined experiencing feelings through a special creature. Thus Man was created. It inserted thus, an infinitesimal part of the Spirit in the human body.

A normal human Astral body contains approximately four billion, trillion electrons. These electrons have a life span of approximately ten billion, trillion of your earth years. They were created at the moment of creation. Your Astral body contains them and, when you die some of them are 'recycled', nineteen percent rejoin the electrons of the Universe until required by Nature to form a new body or a new tree or animal, and the eighty one percent rejoin your Higher Self.

I intend helping you to understand. An Astral body is not quite what you would call a pure spirit. On Earth, there is a belief that the spirit is made of nothing. This is false. The Astral body is composed of billions of electrons, exactly marrying your physical shape. Each of these electrons has a memory. We'll say 100 'gigabytes' each. And each one those billions of electrons is capable of retaining as much information as is contained in every single book that fill all the shelves of an average town library.

Since your fellow earthlings like proof, let them consider this: there are people on Earth who are very sincere and who claim to have seen gh

this: there are people on Earth who are very sincere and who claim to have seen ghosts, and I dont refer to charlatans.

What they have seen is actually the nineteen percent of electrons that dont comprise the Astral body. These electrons detach themselves from the physical body three days after its death. Indeed, as a result of certain effects of static electricity, these electrons can be seen having the same form as the physical body. Sometimes, before being re-utilized by Nature, they are vacant, but they, too, have memories and return to haunt places they knew - places they loved or hated.

These electrons that comprise what you could call the Astral body, which forms one ninth of the essential human being and consists of one ninth of a Higher self, which is sometimes called "Overself". The Higher Self of man is, in other words, an entity which sends one ninth of itself into a human body, becoming the persons Astral being. Other physical bodies are inhabited, similarly, by other ninths of the same Higher Self and yet each part remains integral to the central entity. The central entity, means that each of you shares a Higher Self with 8 other people on Earth.

Further, the Higher Self is a ninth part of a superior Higher Self which, in turn, is a ninth part of a more superior Higher Self. The process continues as far back as the source, and allows the enormous filtration of spiritual experience required by The Great Spirit.

You must not think that the Higher Self of the first category is insignificant in comparison with the others. It functions at a lower level, but is nevertheless extremely powerful and important. It is capable of curing illness and even resuscitating the dead.What is known on Earth as Spiritual Healing, can be achieved with the help of the Higher Self of the healer, without the patient even being present. However, providing the patient gives permission, the competent healer can assist the patient from anywhere in the world. This is not an exchange of energy but exchange of information at the level of Higher Selves.

There are many instances of people, declared clinically dead, who are brought back to life in the hands of doctors who had abandoned all hope for them. What generally happens in these cases, is that the persons Astral body meets with the Higher Self. This portion of the Higher Self has left the physical body during the period of death. It perceives its physical body below, and the doctors trying to resuscitate it; it can also perceive loved ones who mourn for it. In his present state, the Astral body, the person will feel perfectly well - even blissful. Usually he abandons his physical body, frequently the source of much suffering, to find himself catapulted down a psychic canal, at the end of which is a wondrous light and beyond, a state of bliss.

If before passing through this canal into the blissful light which is his Higher Self he has the least will not to die - not on his own account but for the sake of those who need him, young children for example, he will ask to return. In certain cases it will be permitted.

You are in constant communication with your Higher Self by means of your cerebral canal. Acting as a transmitting and receiving post, it conducts special vibrations directly between your Astral body and your Higher Self. Have you ever questioned why, that of the billions of individuals on a planet like yours, there are no two fingerprints the same, not even any set of 'twins': and why, what we call the crystalline of the blood, is just as unique among individuals as the fingerprint?

The plane in question crashes thirty minutes later, leaving no survivors. Another person, an old and rheumatic woman and barely able to walk, starts to cross a street. There is a loud horn blast and a screeching of tires, but this person is miraculously able to leap to safety.

How is this explained? It was not yet her time to die and so her Higher Self intervened. In one hundredth of a second th

reply to post by spy66


What makes you think that you can simply use logic and reason on something which is far beyond our knowledge?
Logic and reason tells me that 1+1 = 2.
However, where quantum physics is concerned, 1+1 = 48.5773.
How? Who the hell knows. But one thing's for sure, we know next to nothing when it comes to the existence of our universe.
You can't simply make all these assumptions about infinity, nothingness, and what lays beyond our line of sight.
The whole argument is ridiculous.

reply to post by TruthParadox


Right you are! Confuses the BAJEZUZ out of me. Tis why Im not a big fan of religion.

But as the OP has said, there are many of these instances scattered through out the bible. So it just goes to show that god is contradictory to say the least!!!!

reply to post by noobfun



Well the proff is: Finite cant exist with out a infinite space. That is the proff.

Finite needs a place to be finite. So it can make more finite and so on.

Finite cant ever have been there always when it has a beginning.
Becuase then it aint Finite. Only Infinite could have always be there.

Infinite means: No beginning and no End. It always is and always was.

reply to post by TruthParadox


i always preffered the noah story th most nobale and worthy of all men so god saves he he climbs off the ark kills a bunch of animals then turns into a nudist alcholic who may or may not(depending on iterpretation) have then been raped by his son who god also saw fit to save

Originally posted by spy66

Well the proff is: Finite cant exist with out a infinite space. That is the proff.

now ready for this?

prove this point before doing or saying anything else, until you can actually prove this statement then nothing else you say has any meaning its all based on specualtion

and saying its commoin sense or logical doesnt count becasue it is neither its assumption

so prove this point first then we will talk about the rest

and deffine what you mean by space, space as termed by the universe we find ourself in the bits between thelumps of rock is a finite area that has existed for around 14 billion years




[edit on 23/12/08 by noobfun]