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Evidence in Scripture disproving god once and for all
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reply to post by nj2day
i have a well organised filling system in my favorites for youtube videos and sceintific papers and all kinds of interesting things ^_^
i have a well organised filling system in my favorites for youtube videos and sceintific papers and all kinds of interesting things ^_^
Originally posted by nj2day
Wow! dialup! If you spend a few of your ATS points, you can turn on the "low bandwidth" mode in the ATS store... won't help with the videos... but should help you surf here faster
"low bandwidth" mode is a scam .
I'm guessing it switches off images or lowers their quality... I can do that myself. There's no need to though, ATS is fine, I just can't load large files or videos very easily.
If I clicked on one of noobfun's videos, it would probably take 30 minute to an hour to load (depending on how long it is)...
This is one of the funniest things I have ever seen.
It totally defies logic. One cannot disprove that which does not exist, therefore if one is attempting to disprove that which he believes does not wish there can be only two possible explanations.
1) They are an idiot for as I said, you CANNOT disprove that which does not exist. If something does not exist there is NO evidence either for or against it. Only an idiot would look for something they "knew" wasn't there.
or
2) They actually have doubts themselves and are in fact looking for evidence to substantiate that which they "think" they do not believe in.
It totally defies logic. One cannot disprove that which does not exist, therefore if one is attempting to disprove that which he believes does not wish there can be only two possible explanations.
1) They are an idiot for as I said, you CANNOT disprove that which does not exist. If something does not exist there is NO evidence either for or against it. Only an idiot would look for something they "knew" wasn't there.
or
2) They actually have doubts themselves and are in fact looking for evidence to substantiate that which they "think" they do not believe in.
reply to post by DarrylGalasso
3. they are using the bibles deffintion of god to disprove the bibles deffintion of god
which implies then the bible is wrong
3. they are using the bibles deffintion of god to disprove the bibles deffintion of god
which implies then the bible is wrong
reply to post by nj2day
What it establishes is that Christianity is misunderstood even by Christians and nothing more. Your arguments are specious from the start, because you don't have a proper translation. There were things lost from the KJV over the years, but the NIV and others are worse, based not only on an incomplete version to begin with, but also deviating from the original intent in many instances and using less accurate wording (for the sake of copyright positioning and profit). You should read the Book of Jasher (The Upright or Correct Record) for some clarifications.
The old rock/lift argument is just plain ignorant. Are there things God cannot do? Yes. He cannot force you to believe in him or take away your moral agency, because this is the only thing you have to offer him freely and of your own will. Most of your other claims are flimsy on the face of them, too, but this space doesn't allow for debate.
I suggest that you actually pray for some insight instead of resorting to pseudo-intellectual attacks on those as misguided as yourself. And concerning the 6,000 years thing, you might start with the realization that the verse : "One day is a thousand years and a thousand years as one day to the Lord" is actually not just a good example of Hebrew Chiasmic verse, but is an equation to be followed all the way through. Hence, if one 'day' is a thousand years, then one 'year' would be 365,000 years, and a thousand of those 'years'...etc. The result is in the range of geological time periods and is 4.2 billion years total. This accounts for the 6 'days' of creation and the 7th of rest.
You might also consider the real explanation for what is mistaken as 'evolution'. If one man and one woman were placed to populate earth, why wouldn't this formula have been used with animals of every "Period", beginning with the very earliest and most primitive? Before this were the bacteria that broke down the rock into soil and then the plants to feed the smaller animals that fed the larger and so on. It is all logical.
A good book for those who really are interested in learning how wrong they have been is available as a free download--The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch by David W. Patton. Get it, read it and learn something. Science and religion can and do walk hand in hand.
For a bit of critical thinking, read my posts at the following:
www.trekspace.org...
www.trekspace.org...
www.trekspace.org...
www.trekspace.org...
www.trekspace.org...
Thanks for the opportunity to share. ;>)
Steven O'Dell
What it establishes is that Christianity is misunderstood even by Christians and nothing more. Your arguments are specious from the start, because you don't have a proper translation. There were things lost from the KJV over the years, but the NIV and others are worse, based not only on an incomplete version to begin with, but also deviating from the original intent in many instances and using less accurate wording (for the sake of copyright positioning and profit). You should read the Book of Jasher (The Upright or Correct Record) for some clarifications.
The old rock/lift argument is just plain ignorant. Are there things God cannot do? Yes. He cannot force you to believe in him or take away your moral agency, because this is the only thing you have to offer him freely and of your own will. Most of your other claims are flimsy on the face of them, too, but this space doesn't allow for debate.
I suggest that you actually pray for some insight instead of resorting to pseudo-intellectual attacks on those as misguided as yourself. And concerning the 6,000 years thing, you might start with the realization that the verse : "One day is a thousand years and a thousand years as one day to the Lord" is actually not just a good example of Hebrew Chiasmic verse, but is an equation to be followed all the way through. Hence, if one 'day' is a thousand years, then one 'year' would be 365,000 years, and a thousand of those 'years'...etc. The result is in the range of geological time periods and is 4.2 billion years total. This accounts for the 6 'days' of creation and the 7th of rest.
You might also consider the real explanation for what is mistaken as 'evolution'. If one man and one woman were placed to populate earth, why wouldn't this formula have been used with animals of every "Period", beginning with the very earliest and most primitive? Before this were the bacteria that broke down the rock into soil and then the plants to feed the smaller animals that fed the larger and so on. It is all logical.
A good book for those who really are interested in learning how wrong they have been is available as a free download--The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch by David W. Patton. Get it, read it and learn something. Science and religion can and do walk hand in hand.
For a bit of critical thinking, read my posts at the following:
www.trekspace.org...
www.trekspace.org...
www.trekspace.org...
www.trekspace.org...
www.trekspace.org...
Thanks for the opportunity to share. ;>)
Steven O'Dell
I like this quote of Einstein:
"I want to know God's thought...the rest are details."
"I want to know God's thought...the rest are details."
I love this article and will use it every time I see a thread devoted to Evangelical Atheism. (I believe this is another one of them)
The New Atheists are positively evangelical. They want to make a convert out of you, although if you’re a “dyed-in-the-wool faith-head” they’ll settle for peppering you with insults and sarcasm instead.
Nevertheless, some of the brightest minds in the English-speaking world right now argue that religion is the problem. And we know they’re the brightest minds because they keep telling us they are. Attracted by the intellectual rebelliousness of the movement, young people fall for its insidious message: "Join us and you can be one of the smart people!"
(sounds familiar doesn't it).
But most of the English-speaking world was spared this excessive institutional atheism. The United States, in particular, has always zealously guarded the freedom of anyone to practice any religion that does not seriously interfere with public order.
That’s why we’re so surprised and baffled by what we call the New Atheism. For the first time in our relatively tranquil history, we’re facing a determined attempt not just to keep organized religion out of government (which most religious Americans agree is a good idea), but to suppress religion completely.
Led by the Four Horsemen, as they like to call themselves—Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett—these New Atheists argue that religion, is simply delusion and at the root of all our problems. They have websites and well-orchestrated media events, and collectively they sell millions of books. Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion has been on the bestseller list since its release in 2006.
But if atheists have always been with us, why are we worrying now? After all, the Church has engaged non-believers for over two thousand years.
What we call the “New Atheism” is a bit different than its predecessor. It’s more aggressive, and it has more power. The leaders of the sect are well placed in the academic world, and they have a strong determination to mold government policy.
And you wouldn’t like the government if the New Atheists molded its policy. Richard Dawkins has asserted that teaching your religion to your child is a form of child abuse and should be criminalized. Other New Atheists have argued that churches should have to post a sign reading “for entertainment purposes only,” since after all they’re no less a fraud than telephone psychics.
The New Atheists see religion as a disease to be exterminated. Their dream, in short, is not a government neutral to religion, but a government actively hostile to religion.
What is most worrying is that the New Atheists seem to gain the most followers precisely among the most ambitious and intelligent young people—the people who will be actively shaping government policy in the years to come. Attracted by the intellectual rebelliousness of the movement, young people fall for its insidious message: join us and you can be one of the smart people.
How do we counter the New Atheists where they’re doing the most damage?
First, we need to be polite. That’s all the more important when our opponents descend to the level of playground taunts. If a New Atheist joins our discussion, we need to be welcoming, not hostile. (see link for complete article)
www.catholicleague.org...
Mr. Onfray, 48 years old and author of 32 books, stands in the vanguard of a curious and increasingly potent phenomenon in Europe: zealous disbelief in God. Mr. Onfray argues that atheism faces a "final battle" against "theological hocus-pocus" and must rally its troops. "We can no longer tolerate neutrality and benevolence," he writes in "Traité d'athéologie," or Atheist Manifesto, a best seller in France, Italy and Spain. "The turbulent time we live in suggests that change is at hand and the time has come for a new order."
The New Atheists are positively evangelical. They want to make a convert out of you, although if you’re a “dyed-in-the-wool faith-head” they’ll settle for peppering you with insults and sarcasm instead.
Nevertheless, some of the brightest minds in the English-speaking world right now argue that religion is the problem. And we know they’re the brightest minds because they keep telling us they are. Attracted by the intellectual rebelliousness of the movement, young people fall for its insidious message: "Join us and you can be one of the smart people!"
(sounds familiar doesn't it).
But most of the English-speaking world was spared this excessive institutional atheism. The United States, in particular, has always zealously guarded the freedom of anyone to practice any religion that does not seriously interfere with public order.
That’s why we’re so surprised and baffled by what we call the New Atheism. For the first time in our relatively tranquil history, we’re facing a determined attempt not just to keep organized religion out of government (which most religious Americans agree is a good idea), but to suppress religion completely.
Led by the Four Horsemen, as they like to call themselves—Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett—these New Atheists argue that religion, is simply delusion and at the root of all our problems. They have websites and well-orchestrated media events, and collectively they sell millions of books. Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion has been on the bestseller list since its release in 2006.
But if atheists have always been with us, why are we worrying now? After all, the Church has engaged non-believers for over two thousand years.
What we call the “New Atheism” is a bit different than its predecessor. It’s more aggressive, and it has more power. The leaders of the sect are well placed in the academic world, and they have a strong determination to mold government policy.
And you wouldn’t like the government if the New Atheists molded its policy. Richard Dawkins has asserted that teaching your religion to your child is a form of child abuse and should be criminalized. Other New Atheists have argued that churches should have to post a sign reading “for entertainment purposes only,” since after all they’re no less a fraud than telephone psychics.
The New Atheists see religion as a disease to be exterminated. Their dream, in short, is not a government neutral to religion, but a government actively hostile to religion.
What is most worrying is that the New Atheists seem to gain the most followers precisely among the most ambitious and intelligent young people—the people who will be actively shaping government policy in the years to come. Attracted by the intellectual rebelliousness of the movement, young people fall for its insidious message: join us and you can be one of the smart people.
How do we counter the New Atheists where they’re doing the most damage?
First, we need to be polite. That’s all the more important when our opponents descend to the level of playground taunts. If a New Atheist joins our discussion, we need to be welcoming, not hostile. (see link for complete article)
www.catholicleague.org...
Mr. Onfray, 48 years old and author of 32 books, stands in the vanguard of a curious and increasingly potent phenomenon in Europe: zealous disbelief in God. Mr. Onfray argues that atheism faces a "final battle" against "theological hocus-pocus" and must rally its troops. "We can no longer tolerate neutrality and benevolence," he writes in "Traité d'athéologie," or Atheist Manifesto, a best seller in France, Italy and Spain. "The turbulent time we live in suggests that change is at hand and the time has come for a new order."
Originally posted by infolurker
I love this article and will use it every time I see a thread devoted to Evangelical Atheism. (I believe this is another one of them)
Evangelical Athiesm? Thats a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one...
The Evangelical movement is a Prodestant Sect of Christianity that started in 18th century Europe... Christian Atheists?
The New Atheists are positively evangelical. They want to make a convert out of you, although if you’re a “dyed-in-the-wool faith-head” they’ll settle for peppering you with insults and sarcasm instead.
Naw, only the atheists who are constantly harrassed by christians revert to these tactics.
Nevertheless, some of the brightest minds in the English-speaking world right now argue that religion is the problem. And we know they’re the brightest minds because they keep telling us they are.
LOL really? Their resume's don't stand for themselves? or are you just implying they're less than bright because of their stances on religion?
Attracted by the intellectual rebelliousness of the movement, young people fall for its insidious message: "Join us and you can be one of the smart people!"
(sounds familiar doesn't it).
Whoah there, Intellectual rebelliousness? Perhaps you should read what intellectualism is as well... I think you need to choose better terminology to use.
But most of the English-speaking world was spared this excessive institutional atheism.
Not particularly... it was only in the last 100 or so years it became acceptable to speak of such things...
It really wasn't so long before that when Atheists were put to death...
What "institution" are you speaking of? Its a well known fact that the reason atheists will never be a political power, is because of the fact that they are organized... how can they be, unlike religion, there is no unifying dogma to keep them in line.
The United States, in particular, has always zealously guarded the freedom of anyone to practice any religion that does not seriously interfere with public order.
Still does.
That’s why we’re so surprised and baffled by what we call the New Atheism. For the first time in our relatively tranquil history, we’re facing a determined attempt not just to keep organized religion out of government (which most religious Americans agree is a good idea), but to suppress religion completely.
Tranquil? If you call the Dark Ages, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Prodestant reformation, and the witch trials tranquil, I guess you're correct...
Although, consider that I just covered a span of about 1500 years.
As far as "most religious Americans Agree" I'm sure you mean Christian Americans... I'm almost positive that you'd have a problem with islam snuggling up to the government... why should Christianity be given a free pass against opposing religions?
Suppressing religion completely? Nah, we want your religion out of our lives. You can keep it in yours if you want.
Led by the Four Horsemen, as they like to call themselves—Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett—these New Atheists argue that religion, is simply delusion and at the root of all our problems. They have websites and well-orchestrated media events, and collectively they sell millions of books. Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion has been on the bestseller list since its release in 2006.
Not all our problems... but the source of many problems.
Don't you argue that Atheists are doomed to hell for doubting your god or something along those lines?
The ones you have persecuted, jailed, and put to death over the last 2000 years....
But if atheists have always been with us
why are we worrying now?
Who says we're worried? we're just sick of it. and in the last century, it has become acceptable to voice that opinion publicly.
After all, the Church has engaged non-believers for over two thousand years.
Yah... we know... all too well... wonder how many the church has killed in total.
What we call the “New Atheism” is a bit different than its predecessor. It’s more aggressive, and it has more power. The leaders of the sect are well placed in the academic world, and they have a strong determination to mold government policy.
Yay! finally we'll have true separation of church and state as gaurenteed by our constitutional rights!
And you wouldn’t like the government if the New Atheists molded its policy.
blanket statement with no evidence if I've ever seen one...
What about those european countries that have atheist percentages of over 85%? There's several... are those governments evil?
Richard Dawkins has asserted that teaching your religion to your child is a form of child abuse and should be criminalized.
Its brainwashing. He asserts that children should be given the choice... unfortunately, how many families have disowned a child because they decide they are Atheist?
I can agree with this statement... teach the kid when they've reached an age where they can objectively look at the information presented, and make the decision on their own...
[quote]Other New Atheists have argued that churches should have to post a sign reading “for entertainment purposes only,” since after all they’re no less a fraud than telephone psychics.
hahahaha thats funny seriously LOL
I'm sure that started as no more than a joke... but seriously... how is the church not a fraud? Its a giant money machine.
The New Atheists see religion as a disease to be exterminated.
oooh try and make sensationalist claims... imply with your choice of words that atheists are out to "get" christians? hehehe...
Their dream, in short, is not a government neutral to religion, but a governent actively hostile to religion.
No, atheists want a secular government... give me a (reputable) source where someone is asking for a hostile government?
What is most worrying is that the New Atheists seem to gain the most followers precisely among the most ambitious and intelligent young people—the people who will be actively shaping government policy in the years to come. Attracted by the intellectual rebelliousness of the movement, young people fall for its insidious message: join us and you can be one of the smart people.
No, if you objectively look at religion... you would see exactly how much of a fairy tale it is... seriously...
Most long time believers will never see this... because they've been brainwashed for far too long...
Unfortunately, thanks to the internet, younger people no longer solely get their information on religion from their parents and clergy... They're able to think for themselves... and no longer have to accept the biased answers of the "religious" people they would have to ask...
Religion has been dying since the 50's... Its seen a recent revival as far as evangelicals, but overall, the numbers are declining.
How do we counter the New Atheists where they’re doing the most damage?
Keep your religion off of public land, public schools, out of our courthouses and government buildings. quit trying to legislate your morality on us, and for pete's sake stop nagging us to join!
First, we need to be polite. That’s all the more important when our opponents descend to the level of playground taunts. If a New Atheist joins our discussion, we need to be welcoming, not hostile. (see link for complete article)
you mean polite to the point you drafted up an entire post full of lies against atheists and attacking them on almost all possible fronts? That kind of polite?
Your religion is dying. You can't stop it....
Actually thats not true, you COULD stop it... but you'd have to adjust your dogma... come on, its not that big of a deal... you guys do it every so often anyway...
Good luck though!
[edit on 15-12-2008 by nj2day]
Originally posted by infolurker
But if atheists have always been with us, why are we worrying now? After all, the Church has engaged non-believers for over two thousand years.
becasue you cant lock us up in jail for it anymore or kill us possibly?
great reply NJ i think that little essay on the misguidedness of religeons understanding of atheism got its ass kicked
Name one person in the 20th century in the United States that was imprisoned for being an atheist.
Originally posted by infolurker
Name one person in the 20th century in the United States that was imprisoned for being an atheist.
i can name you a few from the 19th century in the uk it was illegal to be an atheist until 1860 ish
i can name a couple who have been killed for bieng none believers in the 20th if you like?
now heres the important question, can you think of any christians killed in the name of atheism in the 20th/21st century?
and i mean in the name of atheism, if you mention personality cult communism im gonna laugh right before i present you with the truth of why communism kills everyone even atheists
[edit on 16/12/08 by noobfun]
Response to nj2day & noobfun
Evangelical Atheism
The New Atheists are positively evangelical. They want to make a convert out of you or they’ll settle for peppering you with insults and sarcasm instead.
(This is a great description based on the listed posts)
What can be said. I simply pulled up the user profiles and scanned the last 250 posts. 95% to 99% religious / evolution based posts. Definitely a "one track" agenda... one might say obsessive, agenda driven or evangelical.
What is the deal. Is it hatred of religion or is the sarcasm just entertainment? Just wondering because the "Evangelical Atheist" tag seems to fit.
[edit on 16-12-2008 by infolurker]
Evangelical Atheism
The New Atheists are positively evangelical. They want to make a convert out of you or they’ll settle for peppering you with insults and sarcasm instead.
(This is a great description based on the listed posts)
What can be said. I simply pulled up the user profiles and scanned the last 250 posts. 95% to 99% religious / evolution based posts. Definitely a "one track" agenda... one might say obsessive, agenda driven or evangelical.
What is the deal. Is it hatred of religion or is the sarcasm just entertainment? Just wondering because the "Evangelical Atheist" tag seems to fit.
[edit on 16-12-2008 by infolurker]
reply to post by infolurker
hehe yah, the 2 weeks or so, I've been a heavy contributer to about 4 or 5 threads about religion...
However, If you look at ALL the threads i've created... (use the search function), you will notice that most of my postings here on ATS have centered around the subject of Propaganda, and techniques used by propaganda artists...
You forget, Noob and I have been contributers in this thread since its inception... its now a huge thread... lots of attention needed...
You also forget the scientific discussion thread I started about abiogenesis, that has been infiltrated by the religious, not in the least interested in discussing the science, but instead are hellbent on rebuking it...
If I pull up your stats, how many would have been pro-religious posts?
Actually I did look at your posts... and even though two can play ad-hominem... I'd like to think I'm above that...
[edit on 16-12-2008 by nj2day]
hehe yah, the 2 weeks or so, I've been a heavy contributer to about 4 or 5 threads about religion...
However, If you look at ALL the threads i've created... (use the search function), you will notice that most of my postings here on ATS have centered around the subject of Propaganda, and techniques used by propaganda artists...
You forget, Noob and I have been contributers in this thread since its inception... its now a huge thread... lots of attention needed...
You also forget the scientific discussion thread I started about abiogenesis, that has been infiltrated by the religious, not in the least interested in discussing the science, but instead are hellbent on rebuking it...
If I pull up your stats, how many would have been pro-religious posts?
Actually I did look at your posts... and even though two can play ad-hominem... I'd like to think I'm above that...
[edit on 16-12-2008 by nj2day]
Originally posted by infolurker
Response to nj2day & noobfun
Evangelical Atheism
The New Atheists are positively evangelical. They want to make a convert out of you or they’ll settle for peppering you with insults and sarcasm instead.
i dont want to convert you
atheists statistically have a higher level of education and IQ :p
fell better now ive been sarcastic and insulted you?
we dont care if you convert or not becasue we cant convert you to somthing that doesnt exist, we do object to people running around trying to make us live by thier book of choice when most havnt even read it front to back
we object to bieng demonised and villified by people becasue they are so locked in a loop anyone that doesnt fit as one of theres must in some way be evil
when we are told god exists and we are damned for our lack of belief in a book they cant prove is truthful and accurate we tend to get a little annoyed and ask questions they dont want to think about
what can i say i hate to see a perfectly good proven scientific theory destroyed by ignorance
What can be said. I simply pulled up the user profiles and scanned the last 250 posts. 95% to 99% religious / evolution based posts. Definitely a "one track" agenda... one might say obsessive, agenda driven or evangelical.
and the ignorant of science are usually (but not always) the ones lurking around religeon, so if they are going to attack and discredit a proven theory then why shouldnt i ask questions about thier religeon? i ask them questions and point out thier false beliefs about it, if they quote scripture at me they better make sure thier isnt a whole pile of conflicting scripture for me to point out to them
youll also notice my post counts 7 times higher then yours becasue the threads i am involved in take up so much time researching (science based threads) and are fast moving so i dont get to wonder around other sections as much as id like
so if your faiths so threatened by people asking questions what does that say about it?
reply to post by nj2day
You two Atheists CAN'T be EVANGELISTS!!!!!!!!!
You don't have enough hair...
See...
Sorry, just had to!!!!
OT
Philippians 1:3
You two Atheists CAN'T be EVANGELISTS!!!!!!!!!
You don't have enough hair...
See...
Sorry, just had to!!!!
OT
Philippians 1:3
reply to post by OldThinker
I grew my hair out long after I got out of the military...
lasted about a year or two...
Now I buzz my head again... and haven't looked back since
I COULDA been an evangelical for a year or two though...
well, actually, my hair got down to shoulderlength... that might be a little much lol
I grew my hair out long after I got out of the military...
lasted about a year or two...
Now I buzz my head again... and haven't looked back since
I COULDA been an evangelical for a year or two though...
well, actually, my hair got down to shoulderlength... that might be a little much lol
reply to post by OldThinker
hahahha or enough money
i keep telling em evolution wants them to send me money but they ask for research outlines and projections and how the findings will be able to be applied
they actually want me to do work not just send it me becasue evolution says
hahahha or enough money
i keep telling em evolution wants them to send me money but they ask for research outlines and projections and how the findings will be able to be applied
they actually want me to do work not just send it me becasue evolution says
Originally posted by noobfun
atheists statistically have a higher level of education and IQ :p
Unfortunately, I hate bringing up this point, cause it almost always seems insulting lol.
However:
www.news.com.au...
Its also facinating to see that on a global scale... we're the 4th biggest group! Just trailing behind Hindu's...
www.atheistempire.com...
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