Evidence in Scripture disproving god once and for all

reply to post by GRANDWORLDDRAMA


This isn't about God, this is about the biblical perception of God!

No one is trying to deny your right to believe anything, don't be so foolhardy.

I posted something simular to this in another thread, but I will repeat it here because of the nature of this one. I agree with you that the God espoused in the 3 great religions doesn't exist. At least, not in the way they think it does. Simply by the works of it's own hand, does it unravel before logical thought. Taking the points you mentioned earlier as a basis: i.e. Omnipotence and Omniscience, then the God of the 3 great religions is neither. For both of those things imply perfection, in both physicality (as we understand it to be), and mentality. A perfect being simply would not behave as a spoiled child. Would not need the worship and adoration of those it created, and would not judge those it created for only those flawed creatures feel the need to be judgemental. Being judgemental implies superiority, and only flawed beings would feel the need to be superior to others. By placing such notions on their God, they lower him to the level of humanity (as they believe it to be, i.e. 'flawed'). Therefor, if God is imperfect, he is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient, therefor, does not exist as they describe it. Simple.

Chrono

Originally posted by Chronogoblin
Being judgemental implies superiority, and only flawed beings would feel the need to be superior to others.
Chrono

Man = Being
God = Supreme Being = Supreme Authority
Everyone will be judged by their works.
I would not attribute God as feeling the need to be superior, but our blindness to realize that he is. It is man that is flawed to not realize that man is inferior to God.

reply to post by juveous

Man = Being
God = Supreme Being = Supreme Authority

Well said but I'll add this.

Man = authored the bible
God = authored the universe

Yet the first as a narrative contradicts the second. Such is to be expected of beings incapable of perfection.




[edit on 27/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

you're wrong.

"Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Luke 1:37
For nothing is impossible with God."

This is saying the same thing. Man can't do something "impossible" except with God's help

1) If god is Omnipotent, can he make an object so heavy he cannot lift it himself? Yes, he can. God is a Holy Trinity. God the Father, (the mind) could create a boulder that God the Son (the body) or Holy Spirit (the soul) could not lift.

Points 2-4: God can see all outcomes but that doesn't mean that you don't have the ability to choose which one you want to. "All paths are foreseen, Nothing is for certain."

5) If god is Omniscient, knowing what will happen in the future, than he can not use his omnipotence to change the outcome... As he is powerless to change the outcome of future events, he is not Omnipotent.

Wrong again. God cannot lie. If he says the sky is red, bam! It becomes red. That's the very spirit of the definition of omnipotence. God CAN change the outcome, but that would be changing the game. God plays solitare and he is a gentleman. He shuffled the cards, laid them out and plays them as they lie. If he were to pick up a card that he wasn't supposed to, that changes the game. Could he change the outcome of something? YES. Would he? NO. That's cheating and he wouldn't be much of a role model if he didn't live up to his own expectations.

God is not Powerless to interfere, he CHOOSES not to. The same way that we could save a mouse about to be eaten by a cat. If we save that mouse though, then the cat may starve. If we don't have a "future view" then how can we make the guaranteed best decision?

As far as unraveling the religion, NOPE, but you're looking at it wrong. Christianity is a right or wrong religion. It doesn't matter if the bible is 100% God's word or not. The only thing that matters is whether or not you believe the bible. If you do, then there should be no question in your mind as to its authenticity. If you don't then its just a book, and it doesn't matter who wrote it.

"None of these conclusions look good for believers. It pretty much establishes that Christianity is wrong."

Only if you have a non objective look at it...or you're a noob

By the way I'm an Athiest...

reply to post by midnightbrigade

This is saying the same thing. Man can't do something "impossible" except with God's help

Re-read the post. He did not put those two back-to-back to suggest a contradiction, but rather as two instances of the idea of perfect in God.

If he says the sky is red, bam! It becomes red

...you know the sky is in fact colourless. It's colourless in the same way as a mirror is colourless.

[edit on 27/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf


First, yes, I know that. I wasn't contradicting...I was clarifying.

Second, colorless sky..yep I get that too...that's why we can see through it at night...weird.. My point was an illustration, not a scientific breakdown of light refraction off of water molecules.

Maybe it would have been better for me to say "If God said the wavelength of light that we see coming through the atmosphere is red, bam! We begin seeing more of the red wavelength as opposed to blue."

Come on man...seriously? Do better than that if you want to pick apart my argument. That's just lazy, sloppy work

[edit on 27-11-2008 by midnightbrigade]

reply to post by midnightbrigade


I wasn't trying to pick apart your argument, several points you've addressed, in particular the one about 'choices' and freewill, have been talked about already.

It seemed like you hadn't picked up on the whole 'not meant to suggest contradiction' thing because of the way you spoke- and that it took me a bit to work it out too because of how the OP spoke.

And I just like reminding people that the sky only has 'apparent' colour.

not a dissection. after all, I'm an atheist, too.



[edit on 27/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

nice work dude, I've unearthed the same discoveries too, just tread carefully if you can. It's not always about being right, yes you may very well be right but always be mindful of what you're breaking down when you're not offering anything to replace the void you've created. Some people only have this as their foundation, understand ?

Ironically.... it's the parable of the wise man and his house. Christians all build their house on the sand but they sing the song exclaiming that they've built their house apon the rock... sad really how most of the parables have been completely misunderstood but instead turned into songs which people sing but dont really "get".

Also.. dont forget - 3/4 of the NT is actually all just Paul, ironically this man mercilessly persecuted thousands of Jesus' followers and then alledgedly had a life changing experience whereby he suddenly became a believer and then re-institutionalized the church - something that Jesus came to actually destroy - which he succeeded to do until Paul came along and built it all up again. Then he continues to make a religion called christianity which was the religion of Paul ABOUT Jesus not the religion OF Jesus which had NO name, really it was more of a way of life to be honest.

And please dont anyone say that Jesus was Jewish, he was a Jew by race but he had no dogmatic religion. He purposefully broke the sabbath, he went to church not to listen but to teach, warn and provoke deeper thought. He learnt Judaism for the same reason I have meticulously studied the bible, even to the point of researching the Greek and Hebrew original writ, and the reason for that is simply because, in order to free any given prisoner you need to have flawless knowledge of the confines they're in. Scofield style


[edit on 11/27/08 by mortalengine]

You can not use the bible to disprove God just like you can not use the bible to prove God. The bible was written by man. Of course there are a lot of inconsistencies. God does exist but I didn't learn that from religion.

reply to post by mortalengine


While I like what you said, don't dissagre on much so I don't have much to say about it. But is the gargantuan quote really needed?

My bad, what on earth what I thinking ??

O.o

No harm, no foul. Peace.

[edit on 27/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf


My bad, what on earth was I thinking ??

O.o


.... - dude you simply cant quote me in a post before I actually write what you've quoted from me... it's just not fair, also it makes it seem like you're one step ahead of me.

[edit on 11/27/08 by mortalengine]

[edit on 11/27/08 by mortalengine]

The Bible doesn't depict God to begin with. I read it through and, even as a teenager, realized that that God was rewritten for political purposes and depicted the violence of mankind, or even et. The existance of a truly loving God who IS everything, all the matter, energy of the universe/multiverse, is logical. The real question is, is it more logical to believe that matter is primary and soul (life) secondary, or is soul primary, and matter secondary? Believing in an eternal God is no less logical than believing in an eternal source for matter. There is no reason for the universe to be here! There should be nothing here.
It simplifies the problem when you start to realize it is one and the same. Everything is energy, and that energy is God. And God is far more loving and wonderful than any Scripture from any dusty old book of any leading religion. God makes everyone, including homosexuals, and loves everyone, and everything including Lucifer/Satan will evolve as everyone counts.

The way to prove God, is to seek God within. You'll find proof.

[edit on 27-11-2008 by mystiq]

reply to post by nj2day


HE could, ( assuming GOD is a he ), but why would HE want to? Would you build a car you can't drive? First of all this notion that the Bible is some sort of ancient history book is compleatly wrong. You cannot take it literaly, but religeon has. All religeons are in some sort of competition, mine is better than yours crap. The end result is holy wars. The Bible is a coded book written for the times we are in today. All of it"s teachings are for what we will be faceing in 2012. And NO the earth will not self destruct, but life as we know it will change. And the Vatican knows this. Astronomy and the workings of the mind has a huge part in the interpertations of the Bible. You need to check out hiddenmeanings.com for a real "EYE" opener.

Play with fire long enough and get burned.

reply to post by mortalengine

.... - dude you simply cant quote me in a post before I actually write what you've quoted from me... it's just not fair, also it makes it seem like you're one step ahead of me.

Thanx man, I had me a good laugh over that. PARANOID much?

[edit on 27/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by blowfishdl

 

Ah, I didn't disprove a Supreme being...

I just proved the supreme being Christianity describes cannot exist.

There's a difference

The central thing that needs to be parsed, to me, is what is "Christianity" vs. what is "Christ like".

Being a buddhist, i have my own thoughts, and see much in biblical texts that supports a buddhist viewpoint.

Great thread.

Contradiction is inevitable when placing human characteristics and limitations on the Creator.

Free will is about reaction, not action. We have limited control over the events in our lives, but unlimited control in how we view and use them.

Can the Creator create something so heavy "he" can not lift it alone? Well, assuming "he" made us, the answer is yes.

I'm reminded of the poem "Footprints in the Sand". The solitary footprints to me are not where we are carried but rather where we choose to be and feel alone.

reply to post by nj2day



I will say a prayer for you

Peace.

reply to post by nj2day

Have you watched Zietgiest? It pretty well debunks, most of the worlds religions in the first hour or so.