How to manipulate the credit game in your favour and turn the table (important read)

I read this thread here www.abovetopsecret.com...

"Sorry I can't do that, the system is automatic."

I found it interesting but also a deflection of the true nature of the problem.

I am going to tell my experience here and invite people from all countries to participate in terms of law/financial knowledge.

I once found myself employed by a debt recovery company in the UK and left after feeling extemely uneasy at what I was being told to demand on families who have suffered extreme loss ie wife who has just lost her husband after buying a new house, no life insurance, three kids and an unsecured debt of 50k that needs paid in full because of the defaults for example.

I did some research into Scottish law as most of the "defendants" as they liked us to call them lived in Scotland and did not know their rights as is the norm in most cases.

I think some will find this interesting and I hope to god some do because what I am about to tell you is critical in terms of knowing your rights not just in Scotland but maybe in your individual countries which I hope is the case despite me only having knowledge of my homeland laws regarding this.

Without further babbling I will get to my point without a story and explain exactly what I mean with the hope that others will contribute to findings in other countries as there are always loopholes it seems.

In Scotland you have what is called "professional debtors" these people manipulate the credit system entirely to there own benefit without any fraudulent behavior whatsover as the laws still to this day do not cover this.

I am going to give some examples here,

1) You apply for a credit card with a bad credit rating card company such as Capital One, you get a credit card with £500 limit. You blow the £500 on whatever you want and apply with another provider ie Mint and request a balance transfer of £500 from the Capital one card. The Capital one will now have a balance of £0 spent and the limit will increase to £1000 usually without request as this is counted as a payment in full (PIF) this increases your credit rating enabling better interest rates and acceptance.
Meantime you have a new Mint card with £1000 with an available of £500 because you have transfered the £500 from the capital one card remember.
Heres when it gets interesting, you blow both cards to this limit meaning you now owe £2000 right? Bull, what you do is you apply to two other providers and get two new cards with limits of £2000 or more on them due to you transfering the balance over to the new cards from the Mint and the Capital one cards.

Capital One card limit is increased and so is the Mint as it counts for a Payment in full!

Repeat this until all card providers give you a card and all are used up to the max and it will total around 200k of unsecured debt.
Do this with unsecured loans ie take out a 10k loan, consolidate it into a 30k unsecured loan and so on until you are refused.
The amount you can generate from a small income is in figures of around £500k. The beauty of it is that you do not have to pay a single penny back an the companies will still get their money back through selling their debts (your debt as you might call it)

You may think they will take my possessions etc but under Scottish law they must have 1 of 2 things,

1) Ownership of debt (this means that you must pay something physically after default, token payment ring a bell here people?)
2) Acknowledgement of debt this means that you have to speak directly with the collecter via telephone, face to face, letter etc acknowledging the debt is yours. (If they say are you Mr X and you say yes and give your DOB and address you are caught and have to pay so change your telephone number and take your name of the electoral role)

If an agent comes to your door you do not show ID or communicate apart from to say you are calling the police as it is illegal for a debt collector to come onto your property unless you accept (accepting is speaking with them to give details or letting them in)

If you do not answer the phone providing all the relevant details or pay no money to your debt then legally this debt is not yours and will be sold on to debt collectors forever but will stay on your credit file for 6 years.

Another great thing about Scottish law is that you have to "accept" private fines for example if I were to punch you in the face and charge £50 for it and you paid it then it is legally binding so you could not take me to court for assault.
A better example of this is if you park in for example an ASDA or Tesco car park and they fine you 70 pounds for being over the 2 hour time slot it is only valid if you pay it. If you do not pay it you have not taken ownership of the fine and thus you are not entering a contract with the private company and they will not take you to court and even if they somehow did which would not happen the judge would throw it out because you have not paid the debt so it is not legally yours.
Only government has the authority to charge or take your car away etc.

I hope to see some similar laws in different countries as I expect members have knowledge worth sharing?

In times of crisis like this with money I think it is extremely important to share knowledge so we all have a chance to sleep at night in the knowledge we are getting our slice like they are.

Cheers



PS I posted this in the same forum as the thread I linked it to, feel free to move this if appropriate Moderators.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by XXXN3O]

loved your post, but where were you 2 months ago haha, im not sure if it would work here in australia, but good to know mate cheers.

i also work for a debt collecting agency here in australia, pretty much the same rules apply, and we call our debtors 'customers' xD

i've thought about doing it for a while now..
but i want to buy a house in the near future =\

WOW
You are in a "Democracy"?
LOL
I'm in the states and we are going to spend TRILLIONS helping out corrupt morons with no conscience to speak of.
Whatever prayers you know, say them.
LC

Is this system the same in any other countries??

Is there anyone who can verify this for australia, I am not too trusting of anon posts these days.


[edit on 27-11-2008 by XXXN3O]

Yet another important topic that is completely ignored.

Ah well.

BAA BAA

Originally posted by XXXN3O
Yet another important topic that is completely ignored.

Ah well.

BAA BAA

In the US it's considered fraud. Anything over 5,000 is a federal jail.

Warrant would be put out for your arrest and you would never know until the police busted down your door and arrested you.

Then you go to court and everything you have would be taken to repay the debt and you would see then a minimum year in jail, 50,000 fine and chances are 100-200 hours of community service.

Not because you had debt but because of the way you obtained the debt. Ya if it was just 1 or 2 credit cards they wouldn't bother but by the time you reached 100k you'd be in a whole lot of trouble if you weren't paying it back.

Not to mention no one is giving out credit like that anymore so you couldn't even achieve that much wealth right now because of what's happened to the economy.

Thanks for clearing that up.

In Scotland no law because nobody knows it as far as I have found because nobody shares it.

Maybe ill keep my mouth shut.

Sometimes knowledge is power seems to be the case.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by XXXN3O]

No one in America is EVER or HAS EVER been arrested for taking
on too many credit cards and not paying them, even if the person
lied on the application, which, yes, is illegal, but there is no agency which investigates this and spends resources obtaining proof to prosecute you,
and therefore, arrest you.

All that will happen is that the party injured by the default- the credit card company- will file a lawsuit civilly, and the debtor will lose and get a judgment against them, and probably pay a percentage over time, in a settlement.

Their credit will be ruined for 7 years, and that's all.

There is no debtors prisons, and lying to credit card companies is simply not a crime that the government law enforcement gets involved with- this is civil.

Or declare bankruptcy and get it all discharged- whooof- gone!


===

Originally posted by Darthorious

Originally posted by XXXN3O
Yet another important topic that is completely ignored.

Ah well.

BAA BAA

Warrant would be put out for your arrest and you would never know until the police busted down your door and arrested you.

You can find out if there are any judgements against you at your local court house.

There are no debtor prisions in the US. It is very hard for a creditor to prove fraud. They won't spend the $$$ to pursue it.

Originally posted by HighDefinitionFilms



No one in America is EVER or HAS EVER been arrested for taking
on too many credit cards and not paying them, even if the person
lied on the application, which, yes, is illegal, but there is no agency which investigates this and spends resources obtaining proof to prosecute you,
and therefore, arrest you.

All that will happen is that the party injured by the default- the credit card company- will file a lawsuit civilly, and the debtor will lose and get a judgment against them, and probably pay a percentage over time, in a settlement.

Their credit will be ruined for 7 years, and that's all.

There is no debtors prisons, and lying to credit card companies is simply not a crime that the government law enforcement gets involved with- this is civil.

Or declare bankruptcy and get it all discharged- whooof- gone!


===

I stand corrected I guess time has passed me by, however you can still go to jail for it if the application is incorrect. If you stated you make 20,000 a year and you only make 19,500 and don't pay back the debt you go to jail for "credit card fraud". I live next to a federal club med prison just called a friend who works there. Said about 25% of the inmates are there for credit card fraud.

Did a little bit more research um ya you don't want to do this.

The explosion of the internet has led to a proliferation of myths regarding the uncollectibility of debts and defenses to debt collection. These myths have spread like wildfire across blogs and websites and they are all false and dangerous.

debtcollectionlawyer.blogspot.com...

Found another one. Apparently they are now suing Capital One appears to auto-sue anyone now not paying the debt.

Link

Just one debt buyer, and not even the biggest, filed an astonishing 23,000 lawsuits in 2003. That is a staggering number of lawsuits across the country. But in 2007 this same debt buyer filed 379,000 lawsuits.

Link

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Darthorious]

reply to post by Darthorious


I agree and have already stated that people should research before attempting this.

I also stated that this is Scottish law not any other countries.

I assume that you are speaking about american law which does not appear to allow it.

I know that it does work in Scotland and know of many who have successfully done this.

I have heard of people in Northern Ireland doing it as well but I am not sure of this.

I really recommend searching 'Mary Croft' and 'Robert Menard' - both are successful Canadians in 'discharging' debts lawfully - It is based on the fact that neither Canada or the USA is a country, but a corporation, and at birth we are registered to them - once we understand that we can opt out by using our signature to discharge debt against our legal interest in the 'worth of the Corporation of Canada or USA', it is written against THOSE billions, neutralized. Check these people out, Robert Menard's sister is a federal lawyer and has agreed everything he said is right - I have met and worked with him. Both their information is on the web for free... it's a head ful to get your mind around it, but she's driving without a licence lawfully and has discharged debt after debt without repercussion so far.

A variant of this was tried on a massive scale by Madoff in the US, an investment ponzi scheme that lost $100s of billions for the witless investors. Apparently it has wiped out Palm Beach.

Though a few benefit from the scam, those who play by the rules suffer by paying higher interest so that the credit companies can recoup their losses on the leaches.

I agree with you in the scenario of billions of pounds but what about another scenario.

It is a question of morals.

Let me give you a different but true scenario here,

While I was working for a debt company over in the UK I had to call a woman who had just been married and had a son.
They were in the process of getting a mortgage, life insurance cover and everything else set up. The husband has an unsecured debt of 50k that was in default and I was calling to collect that in full.

It turned out (I received death cert etc to prove) that the husband had died in a car crash with her son and the life insurance and mortgage had not gone through yet. All the payments were made and never missed up until her husband had died.
She basically lost her husband, son, her dreams of a family home etc and inherited an unsecured debt of £50000.
I went to the director of the company to speak with him and was told that despite this scenario I was to persue her and get that cash and it was not my problem to worry and focus on getting my bonus from the payment. I was forbidden when it came to setting up installments etc and the bonus in question would have been around £2K.

I told the lady this information that I have put in my topic post and was fired but to be honest I would have walked out anyways after this but I think it was the morally right thing to do in the situation rather than feed myself from her destruction.

Dont you?

[edit on 20-1-2009 by XXXN3O]

A really helpful and interesting post.

Thank you.