You are 100% wrong! Deny Ignorance

I have been reading the boards for a few months and one thing I notice is that people seem to not grasp that you can't prove something doesn't exist or that it's not possible.

You can prove something does exist ( although you will probably be told your wrong ). You can prove something is not very likely or plausible at this given moment, but you can't say that something will never happen or is impossible to happen. That just means that at this given moment with our given knowledge and technology we don't have proof yet.

My point of this post is that it is very small sighted of us to so matter a factually tell somebody they are wrong. You may feel very foolish when it turns out the world wasn't flat or that everything doesn't rotate around earth. I wonder how many people would have called you insane if you spoke of the possibility of cell phones in the 1800's

You stifle creativity with statements like the above listed. You tell somebody that an engine that runs on water isn't possible and it makes them feel they are wrong for going against the norm yet maybe that person would have figured out the key to unlocking that technology. It amazes me how we are so quick to say that the mind has so many possibility's and to not limit yourself to kids, then when they listen to you we mock them and try to knock them back to mediocrity.

So the next time you come across a thread that you disagree with ,maybe you don't jump to insults and the small minded and finite reply of " They/It doesn't exist and isn't possible, use the search button" Deny ignorance by asking questions as to why the author thinks it's possible. Maybe they just didn't think of something yet or maybe they didn't explain it very well.

-Sorry if in the wrong forum-

one flag and star but no reply's, I figured I would have gotten a stir out of at least 1 person.

Great thread! i agree with you small minded of people to just dismiss things.... and we do have the tech to make an engine that runs off water... just that no one could make billions off of it....

reply to post by iismtivu


Thank you for the kind words. Now If I can just get my hands on that water driven engine I'm sure I can make some money with it

It was these same small minds that said that Christopher Columbus couldn't sail west to get anywahere. Or that we couldn't reach the north or south poles. Or that we could never fly or reach the moon. It's the same people who say we can't make it to Mars now. We can, as a species, make it anywhere we set our minds to go or make anything we set our minds to make.

I get what your saying and there is no reason for name-calling and automatic doubt. However, true skeptics rarely ever deny the possibilty of anything, they just want the evidence. I think many people get confused into thinking its some sort of personal attack, which it rarely is.

I also understand why people get so frustrated. Believers have a tendency to rarely change thier mind even when confronted with scientific evidence. Which is fine with me. They believe what they believe for whatever personal reason or experience.

I think there are two types of people on ATS.

Logic based people who look at things from a very skeptical angle and people with faith who are willing to accept things easily.

These people are complete opposites. So of course they are going to argue and debate and hardly ever change each others minds. But what both groups rarely realise is that they both need each other.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that they fill the missing pieces in each other.

society is built up on people who are taught what to believe or take seriously who inturn repeat it to the next generation. anybody who wants to explore something that goes against that grain or what people have been taught to believe is impossible are denouced for daring to explore.

it ensures a slow progress. only a minority dare to go against the grain and explore other possibilities that maybe others are missing.

just like all the other people did who made discoveries in their times. luckily they don't burn people today for doing so. they just announce that person as a nutjob instead.

luckily some nutjobs did'nt listen to the voice of reason and the 'logic' back then. one hundred years ago, scientists would have said that lasers, televisions, and the atomic bomb were beyond the realm of physical possibility.

and luckily some are still ignoring the nutjob chants when challenging the 'impossible'.

www.greenoptimistic.com...

you can find many many examples throughout history to the present day of people making discoverys of what was once thought 'impossible'.











[edit on 27-11-2008 by lifeform]

well you know the saying :

extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence

to specifically address the ` engines runing on water ` issue

the BASIC chemistry and physics of 2 H2O > O2 + 2H2 > 2 H2O and the energy required or produced by each stage has been well understood for decades

sad fact is that no water engine claimant has produced a working example for critical scruitiny

Originally posted by whoshotJR
I have been reading the boards for a few months and one thing I notice is that people seem to not grasp that you can't prove something doesn't exist or that it's not possible.

You can prove something does exist ( although you will probably be told your wrong

). You can prove something is not very likely or plausible at this given moment, but you can't say that something will never happen or is impossible to happen. That just means that at this given moment with our given knowledge and technology we don't have proof yet.

My point of this post is that it is very small sighted of us to so matter a factually tell somebody they are wrong. You may feel very foolish when it turns out the world wasn't flat or that everything doesn't rotate around earth. I wonder how many people would have called you insane if you spoke of the possibility of cell phones in the 1800's

You stifle creativity with statements like the above listed. You tell somebody that an engine that runs on water isn't possible and it makes them feel they are wrong for going against the norm yet maybe that person would have figured out the key to unlocking that technology. It amazes me how we are so quick to say that the mind has so many possibility's and to not limit yourself to kids, then when they listen to you we mock them and try to knock them back to mediocrity.

So the next time you come across a thread that you disagree with ,maybe you don't jump to insults and the small minded and finite reply of " They/It doesn't exist and isn't possible, use the search button

" Deny ignorance by asking questions as to why the author thinks it's possible. Maybe they just didn't think of something yet or maybe they didn't explain it very well.

-Sorry if in the wrong forum-

Absolutley RIGHT!

Ive statred threads before on John Searl (SEG technology, see my sig) and the insults and comments i got was just unbelievable and i will never post it again, i even considered removing it from my sig but thought No.

At the end of the day i believe that whatever the human mind can think of we can make a reality, it just will take time and investment in technology.

The car that runs on water - it works and has been proven, we just wont see it because it is not profitable for the elite.

Free energy technology will be possible, its just a matter of time until Physicists fullly understand Gravity - when that day comes and we can reproduce gravity, clean and free energy will be just around the corner.

Anyway sorry to go on, but a great thread and thank you!

Peace and Love.

There's a difference between philosophically possible, and actually possible. Everything is philisophically possible. The Earth really could be at the center of the universe. The stars really could be attached to a crystalline dome holding back the firmament. Christopher Columbus might have been sailing west to find cheese. You might spontaneously change genders. It doesn't matter. You can't say that it's impossible, because we do not have a total and complete understanding of this universe and there may be forces at work or details unknown which could prove these statements true.

The problem is though... it's bunk. That line of thinking doesn't get you anywhere because you could go in any direction with that line of thought, and always be correct in any assertion you make regardless of whether or not it's actually possible. And make no mistake, that's exactly what it is. It's a shelter for people who like to spout off claims without any hard evidence to back them up.

Instead, it's best to look at any given proposition with the mindset of what is probable. Is it probable that outer space is filled with water? No... and we can state that because we have actually been there. Beyond that we have mountains of empirical data stretching back several millennia that is contradictory to the very notion. Yes, it is still philisophically possible that all of our observations were wrong - and that the space station may spring a leak and our astronauts will drown. The chances of that being true, however, are so pitifully small that it's not even really worth mentioning. For all intents and purposes, it's impossible,

If you want to see that as closing down an avenue of thought which could lead to a profound discovery, then so be it. However I'd rather us be exploring space and taking that "risk", than sitting on Earth for the next 2,000 years studying the sky for evidence of water in space - just in case we were wrong. I mean, you never know, you can't ever prove anything 100% right? Better to be safe than sorry.

No, instead I'd rather take the approach of looking at the evidence, making the best judgment calls we can based on that evidence, and changing out viewpoints only when new evidence suggests that we need further study or demands a shift in that worldview. Do not put anything and everything that might be possible on the same level as what we can show to be probable. In the 1800's, they would have been right to call you insane for raving on about cellphones - the evidence known to them at the time did not suggest that cellphones were probable. At the time, it's realistically impossible of them to have invented a cellphone. However, if you had all of the applicable and demonstrable evidence to convince them that it could work, then you would probably find a much more welcoming reception than a loony bin.

Or let's look at it this way. Next time you have a headache, why not get a cranial drill and poke a few holes in your nugget. It's possible that there really ARE demons in there clawing at your consciousness right? Maybe they're just hiding from asprin and other pain relievers because they want you to think they work, and therefore you won't bust your own skull open trying to release them. You could revolutionize medicine, and help billions of people.

I bet you won't do it though. Why? Because the evidence we have suggests that if you're not completely retarded before the procedure, you damned well will be afterwards. Assuming you survive that is.

[edit on 27-11-2008 by Lasheic]

“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.”

-Albert Einstein-

Originally posted by whoshotJR
I have been reading the boards for a few months and one thing I notice is that people seem to not grasp that you can't prove something doesn't exist or that it's not possible.

You can prove something does exist ( although you will probably be told your wrong

). You can prove something is not very likely or plausible at this given moment, but you can't say that something will never happen or is impossible to happen. That just means that at this given moment with our given knowledge and technology we don't have proof yet.

My point of this post is that it is very small sighted of us to so matter a factually tell somebody they are wrong. You may feel very foolish when it turns out the world wasn't flat or that everything doesn't rotate around earth. I wonder how many people would have called you insane if you spoke of the possibility of cell phones in the 1800's

You stifle creativity with statements like the above listed. You tell somebody that an engine that runs on water isn't possible and it makes them feel they are wrong for going against the norm yet maybe that person would have figured out the key to unlocking that technology. It amazes me how we are so quick to say that the mind has so many possibility's and to not limit yourself to kids, then when they listen to you we mock them and try to knock them back to mediocrity.

So the next time you come across a thread that you disagree with ,maybe you don't jump to insults and the small minded and finite reply of " They/It doesn't exist and isn't possible, use the search button

" Deny ignorance by asking questions as to why the author thinks it's possible. Maybe they just didn't think of something yet or maybe they didn't explain it very well.

-Sorry if in the wrong forum-

I look at it this way. I have a couple things I'm working on and I've posted here and there about 1 of them that I can remember but because I know what the reaction will be from most people it's not a big deal. The less an individual believes in something the more apt they are to convince others it's not possible.

This is a good thing technology wise because then I have no worries about other individuals trying to get there first.

So no need to even look at responses considering one project has been 10 years worth of research and trial and error. The second item has been over 15 years and the original idea was converted to serve another purpose by another entity but I don't wish to speak of that particular item because it's too big to chance any joe blow finding out about and maybe get lucky and reproduce it.

So I welcome it with arms open as it secures my future and maybe my financial future, depending on what the markets do in the end.

"absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence"

Dr Carl Sagan I believe....

"Not everything that can be measured, should be measured & not everything that should be measured, can be measured."

Einstein



Take that, you multidimensional naysayers!

Peace

Originally posted by Zeus187
"absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence"

Dr Carl Sagan I believe....

That statement is true enough, however absence of evidence sure as hell is not evidence of existence either. In the absence of evidence for a phenomena, which is the most likely logical course to follow? The phenomena exists, or the phenomena does not exist? If the phenomena exists, there should be evidence of it right? If the evidence exists, but you cannot detect it, then for all intents and purposes to you - the phenomena does not exist either, because you do not have access it, interact with it, or view any perceivable interactions it has with anything else in the known universe. Otherwise, you would have your evidence.

[edit on 27-11-2008 by Lasheic]

Engins running on water - never!






I agree with you in principal, but what about when it comes to violating the laws of physics? There may be ways around, but surely the whole point of having laws is to define what is possible and what is impossible (in this universe at least)?

"That statement is true enough"

thats what i thought!

reply to post by iismtivu

Thank you for the kind words. Now If I can just get my hands on that water driven engine I'm sure I can make some money with it

Its called a Hydrogen On Demand Generator, and yes they do exist, yes they do work, and they're not very difficult to make. Do a little google search you'll find thousands of pages of info about them, as well as plans of how to build your own.

reply to post by C.H.U.D.


Thats a pretty big stretch to say a steam locomotive is "running" on water. Its inefficiently burning coal to heat the water which in turn creates steam that pumps the pistons.

I really enjoy the internet based intellectuals that base all their research on one wiki articles or someone's blog. Our educational system, within the USA, has become so dumbed down; that this is considered a normal researched paper.

A special joy come to my heart for people who deny the truth even when shown scientific evidence or research from reputable sources that totally debunks what they thought. Then they continue to argue because "the known science" is wrong or "our understanding of modern physics" hasn't caught up yet with their research. However, their results can not be duplicated outside their laboratory or workshop with third party observers. But, it's my fault I will not accept their youtube video as proof.

Are there great discoveries yet to be made in many areas. YES, there are. Some of them will even come from a guy tinkering in a garage. But the guy had better be open to real scientists and researchers to go over his work while it is going through the patent process.

And this brings up the most precious threads I find within this site. Someone will be killed over a great discovery to keep it quite. You have no idea how much I actually love to read these. These are the true conspiracies that are the easiest to debunk, yet no one believes the truth. Everyone knows someone who heard of/knows someone that did (fill in the blank) and was later in a car wreak, killed, beaten senseless, robbed, had the home broken into ... the list goes on. The fact these same crimes happen to thousands of people every day, that specific person was singled out for the crime. This fact alone stand as the source of the conspiracy for the base of many of this type of claim.

You just need to keep an open mind and question everything you see that piques your interest.