America what happened?

I know this is a conspiracy site but our decline can be traced back to to the start of the industrial revolution.

If you remember your high school history our country was founded on citizen government... what;s that mean???

Back n the day someone like Slayer would wagon train out to Kansas build himself a nice little farm and together with his neighbours plant the roots for a city. one day that collection of farmers decides they need better representation so they get together in the church and by a show of hands send Slayer to Washington to be a Jr congressman... All he thinks about is what's good for his constituents... no lobbyists no big businesses there to buy votes, Slayer enters a bill to have the railroad extended to his collection of farmers so they can get their goods to the city and thus their town grows and the economy soars... Slayer gets a pat on the back and a statue erected in town square...

But then comes Slayer Jr. He's never set foot on a farm. he goes straight from high school to law school where they teach him the fundamentals of bending the rules. From there he runs for city council, maybe runs for governor, When his daddy retires Slayer Jr takes papa's office...Slayer Jr is the first professional politician! No longer is the focus on the will of the people... This big mining company pays ole Slayer Jr a truckload of under the table cash to change one little law so they can have their strip mine...(They say it will bring needed jobs to the state), then we see the first of the special interest group's... General motors comes to see ole Slayer Jr... says its a new age... if we want progress we have to get rid of all the old trolley cars rip up the train tracks and build cars, cars, cars!!! After a huge campaign contribution GM gets the laws changed in their favor....(Slayer Gets a new black Caddy)

You see what this going right... It's all Slayers fault

Seriously once governments main focus turned towards big businesses taking care of nation rather than we citizens it all went down hill. Business is all about profits and bottom line... Citizen government only cares about what's good for the whole.. Samuel Clemens was right, "Never Trust a politician"!

Well, the G.I. Generation is no longer, though remnants can be found throughout society today - if you look hard enough...my great grandfather's closet is one place

We had a collective purpose back then - and it seemed to center on our Civic duty and created Social Capital...a term seldom used or thought of today, unfortunately.

How does America get back to it's roots..? A huge paradigm shift needs to occur, and I really don't think that will happen unless a very profound event takes place within our borders; I say within our borders because we have become complacent in our endeavors - waiting for change but not really up to the task...




No idea what this profound event may be, but I'm staying Frosty just in case.


Here's to Hoping Chief...

reply to post by SLAYER69

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I don't see any marked change, Slayer. Granted, I no longer live in the U.S., however I read the same news sources (or is there really ANY news left?).

To me, what we're on the cusp of loosing is the work ethic. At least where I grew up, there wasn't much of a sense of entitlement.... When I was a wee sprout, I wanted money to buy stuff. My Dad started me cleaning up dog poop for five cents per hour. I was five years old.

I quickly identified that this was a less-than-savory job, and struck out for better employment, learning things, gaining some skills, all the while cleaning up dog poop, and then irrigating fields for extra hours. This was in addition to my regular ranch chores, which were not paid duty -- it was my indentured servitude to my family, and everyone I knew did the same.

I gave notice to my father at age 10, and went to work for a large farmer irrigating his fields. There were a few priviledged kids where I grew up, but for the most part, we all did much the same, and it wasn't considered extraordinary. Once a year, we all got out of school for a week for the potato harvest, and again for opening of deer hunt. So it went.

I think that pioneering spirit gets diluted somewhat by living and breeding in urban sprawls; I think the sense of competition is so great that some flourish and others secumb to the grind and loose their heart.

Perhaps I was asleep (God, I hate that expression) as a young adult, but I didn't fear my government. I didn't always trust the politicians, but I believed that my government had a job to do, and we had jobs to do, and one supported the efforts of the other.

What a great country it was. Whatever I put my mind to, I could do. I had six different businesses over time, and they made it or failed (all but two) based solely upon my own elbow grease and ingenuity.

I have never purchased a brand new automobile in my life -- just never valued a new car the way some do. No shame to wanting a new car.

I never expected my government to bail my ass out of my own troubles, and I was never disappointed. I was once homeless, and after that made an effort to give others a hand up as I was given.

I don't see much of a sense of teamwork or people who value helping others, and I can understand how some get that way, truly. It's easy to look around and see what is wrong, who doesn't seem to do much to further themselves, but difficult to set aside our judgements and extend a helping hand to someone. That's the REAL investment, IMHO, that is needed -- encouraging businesses to pay better wages, keep American citzens employed, not outsource their production, knowing all the while that it will initially cost the consumer much more.

Ever pick sugar beets or slip melons? There's a reason that those jobs often go to those who are not citizens....... they are willing do do whatever they have to for crap wages to feed their families, and there's no shame to that. No, the shame is on the consumer, who whines and gripes about the high cost of things and buys most of their goods at Walmart or other cheap outlets that do little to support or stock home-built goods.

Not to say that there is much that is built in the U.S. anymore. Last year, my Bride and I paid about USD $1200 for a tandem tricycle, a Worksman trike built in the U.S. of A. since the late 1800's. yes, it was expensive and an extravagance, but it's solid. It's like me...... doesn't go fast, but it's heavy work and durable. We need more goods like this, and if a business can't survive, then it needs to fail naturally, and be supplanted with another business than can survive.

Yes, we need social service programs, and there are those that need help that truly cannot help themselves, or need a hand up. That is also part of the American spirit. What we do not need is the mindset that the gubment will take care of your and yours if you just elect to drop out. We have the right to work our butts off, and we have the right to starve if we are otherwise able-bodied, but choose to become a spud (no offense to the tasty starchy vegetable of my youth).

Of course, [you may think], how DARE I say such things?? I didn't stay, nope, I left my beloved country. You're right, if so. I really have no right to criticize. It's true, we'd had enough, and our perception of some patterns indicated to us that it was time to scoot.

I don't think the American spirit is dead; I just think that many are numb, and afraid, and we've lost the illusion that our political pundits give a damn what we think about anything. These next few years will tell the tale, as we watch the possible global abandonment of the United States. Who could blame them? As you mentioned, frequently Americans abroad are viewed as arrogant and offensive; I've seen it here myself. So the U.S. becomes a lower order dog, relinquishing the top dog spot. Good deal. Just what the doctor ordered. Maybe then we can get back to the order of the day, which is the rebuilding of the country -- the infrastructure, the investment in education, the business opportunities, free enterprise, and good old American ingenuity.

is it just me, or do you hear a fife in the background?

Rant over. Thanks for the space.

[edit on 5/11/09 by argentus]

reply to post by centurion1211

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But that's the thing, Centurion, and forgive the European intrusion.

The people who are tearing down the USA are the people themselves, your friends, your neighbours. Because for the last 30 years you've been following an economic model which is completely unsustainable ; borrowing today and spending all our tomorrows.

It's been happening at federal, state, corporate and the personal level. Your people have been spending money they don't have on crap they don't need, with no thought whatever as to the future and how that money is to be paid back.

And it isn't like this is some great surprise. It started decades ago, with governments quietly borrowing vast sums of money at one end ... only to pay it out as tax cuts at the other. Rejoice at the American Dream !

Sadly that economic model has been exported worldwide. And there's been plenty people complaining about the basic unsustainability of it all but we've drowned out by your phoney success ... the model we've been sold is that the Americans had found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, that somehow by their unique industriousness, their creativity, their innovation that the Americans had invented Heaven on Earth.

You can't now turn around and accuse the rest of the world ... those who have largely funded this madness ... and blame them for pulling the USA down.

Blame yourselves. The writing was on the wall 30 years ago.

Again, apologies for the European intrusion. Please don't consider this a flame, for we've made the same mistakes ourselves, to varying degrees.

reply to post by happygolucky

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I think you're right -- a paradigm shift. You know what might qualify? Doing away with the high salary and perks of the politicians. Term limits too. Imagine if politicians were paid a decent wage, but not an extravagant one and they had to actually pay for their own health care, transportation like the rest of us. Imagine if people were in it for the service, rather than the money and political influence. Imagine if there were lobbyist limits and campaign contribution limits.

You may say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one...........

I think this song SUMs it all up.

YouTube Link

Excellent message, we need to change in order for our country to, we make up our country, people need to wake up, stop pointing fingers, take the blame and change for the better.

Now the problem is, how do we wake those up who refuse to wake up.

Cindymars, I may have a strange way of looking at things. It could be that I define "patriotism" differently.

I still think of myself as "patriotic", but I'm not at all pleased with the way the government has been going the past several years.

I love this land, and the people therein. To me, THAT'S what makes this country, and that's what I've been willing to "put it on the line" for.

The politicians can nibble my fuzzy posterior.

I make a sharp deliniation between the "country" and the "government". We change governments every few years, but the land and the people remain. The country is US, not Obama, or any of the Bushes. It's not Ronald Regan nor JFK, nor any of the other administrations going way back to when. It's US. The politicians are ruining the nation, but they can't touch the country.

I bet they soon figure that out. Hope they do, anyhow, but I'll not hold my breath.

As things stand now, they've aimed us at a cliff, tossed a brick on the gas pedal, and rolled out of the way.

At least they THINK they've rolled out of the way.

I also think this quote by Thomas Jefferson is quite apropos to this discussion:



Want to know what's happened or is wrong with America today? I think the quote I just posted illustrates exactly where we are at and why. Of course, we also have a congress and president who's agenda is to only make the government even bigger ...

reply to post by argentus

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Thanks for the insightful post.
I was sitting here the other night and a commercial came on the TUBE which I rarely watch, Anyhoo we as a nation must all be feeling something similar. We don't trust people in suits anymore. The most popular commercial spokesman is not human and he is not even an a American.

Yeah who or what do you trust?

YouTube Link

Ok Slayer lets go in the way way back machine....There was a beautiful pristine land, where lived a people that hunted and lived off the land and we came and took it. My ancestors certainly did as I am mostly English in my ancestry,1/32 Cherokee. LOL

So? What constitutes greatness?

Oh and let your pals know, I was invited to this thread. Not my normal playing ground.

reply to post by cindymars

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Cindy is my pal...
I always have respected her opinion even when it conflicts with mine. {Reality Check} The way back machine can reveal that with any culture on the planet. No?

A great thread Slayer, even if it has been around awhile . .waiting !

Personally I believe we are better off now than we were just over a
year ago. We seem to be headed in a better direction . . where
more people can be helped.

We struggle with day-to-day life because we lack trust in those
that supposedly can make a difference. We elect officials only to find
two years later that they are corrupt. We learn that half of
Congress is being investigated. We are told that education and
knowledge is good, but learn when questions are asked that "we
don't have a need to know" and to stop asking.

We lack tolerance. Zero tolerance makes meaner people. The
lack of compassion and assistance continues to grow. We settle
for less . . . and we end up with less.

But big business and big corporations are to blame for most of the
feelings of dread. They cheat, they scheme, and they chase the
all mighty dollar as if it was the only means to an end. Gone is
fairness, integrity, respect, patriotism, and honor.

(I see an open door . . no one here . . leaves mixed with dried out
dollar bills blowing in the wind . . . and people . . angry.)

reply to post by SLAYER69

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Yes it can but we are talking about America the great.
Now it has been a good place to be born, grow up and live in and at one time I bought the whole rah rah, what a great country we live in thing.
Still better than most I imagine.

But are our freedoms real or an illusion.
Are we all just in hypnotic states, living in gilded cages.

Someone above quoted Jefferson, for some reason I really want to trust that Jefferson, Franklin, Washington were genuine.

What would Jefferson think of America now?

reply to post by SLAYER69

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Glad you asked, wish I had more time to write, but I'll give you a different perspective which may surprise some.

No we aren't better off than a year ago but at least we're getting our perspectives back in order. A lot of people have come to understand there is no free lunch or free car payment! We do have to work together and it ain't easy!

America isn't perfect by a long shot and it is constantly evolving as it needs to evolve and modernize. But America is the best example in the world of a country that meets the needs of its people. If you make an effort and want to succeed in America you can! You still can!

And meanwhile all the people who want to bring down America like I think includes the current Administration, will find it very hard to do. America is too resilient because of its government, its people, its strong ecomomy, and its military legacy.

No, Barack Obama will not socialize the great American system of free enterprise and Nancy Pelosi will not succeed in bankrupting the US with run away spending although it looks more like it every day!

I saw the end of WWII and a strong America that brought Europe and the East back from devastation. Now we all have relative prosperity. That was my experience.

My grandfather saw Europe and Russia destroyed in war and most of his friends die. He loaded up the family and came to the midwest, went to work as a Blacksmith. raised a successful family and died a prosperous man.

My daughter, nephew and nieces are all leading successful lives and learning how to deal with the new challenges of life in America.

Everyone has their own experience, sort of a learning experience they have to deal with. The last year has been a tough one for the country but in 25 years we will look back and remember.... It was just a bump in the road!

But that "beautiful pristine land" existed at one time or another every where in the world until one group or another came along and conquered it for themselves. Are you saying that only in America was what happened a bad thing, or do we take this back to the first proto-humans (Adam and Eve if you're religious)?

Slayer, that you point out that there's no trust anymore is absolutely dead-on.

Our medicines have been tainted, our foods have been tainted, our waters have been tainted, our politicians are as crooked as a dog's hind leg, they'll look right into the camera and tell a lie that everyone knows is a lie.

Nothing is our fault - it's our "environment," "lack of suitable opportunities," "our financial shortcomings," "poor social positioning," "subtle racial discrimination," on and on, and on.

We today have more excuses for our aberrant behavior than Wal-Mart has suppositories.

Criminal minds are excused through medical or environmental conditions. Sexual deviants are "born that way." Pathological liars have "self-value perceptions."

Stupid? Not a problem. ADS.

Lazy? Covered by hundreds of programs to encourage even more laziness.

Trust? More rare than iridium.

Truth? More valuable than Rhodium.

We have completely lost our values as a nation. Pride? Very rare.

Personal responsibility? The odds are better in Vegas.

Prudence? If we had any, our national financial situation wouldn't be in the basement. Overloaded, overextended, and overtaxed.

Courage? Rare. Courage is the hard-working men to get up early, work hard and long, just to provide the basics for his family. Even these men are getting rare.

Sloth? Avarice? Intolerance? Rudeness? Selfishness? Jealousy? Slander? Violence? Larceny? We are most wealthy in these characteristics, as well as others I didn't mention.

That's what's happened to our country.

reply to post by SIEGE

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Happiness in America?

It's hard to feel happy, warm and fuzzy when the news media is buzzing with dreadful news! Example: www.foxnews.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">At Least 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Shootings at Ft. Hood in Texas
There is something dreadful every day. Another day another victim, another problem uncovered, another scandal.

I think we can be sure that the news will always be bad. It's just the news media doing their job.

We're a melting pot. We have people of all colors, shapes and sizes. Places like Norway or Denmark are fortunate to have a more homogeneous population. Too many factions here, the rainbow of races and nationalities constantly puts one group against the next.

No, I know what you are saying, I get it, I watch the History Channel.
We are talking about America the great nation, flags and bumper stickers and John Philip Sousa.

Adam and Eve, no, I don't buy that myth, unless they were a race, which is more likely.

Here's a gift, free mp3 downloads of JPS march music by the military and everything.
www.marineband.usmc.mil...

reply to post by cindymars

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*** sarcasm REJECTED ***

Since you are obviously failing to understand, my post is about how can there be so much hand wringing just over what happened to the native Americans, when EVERY other place on the planet has experienced the same thing at one time or another. Survival of the fittest?

I like SLAYER69 and he may have his reasons for liking you. I guess I'll have to send him a U2U to find out why.





[edit on 11/5/2009 by centurion1211]

I think greed is what is destroying the country. We consume each other in efforts to bring "more" to ourselves, and those at the very top are consuming everyone bellow it. When we have this attitude of "everything is about me" it leads to corruption, it doesn't work, but its the software we're currently running on and we'll only get more crap in the future unless that changes.

Even with this shooting today, if there was more cooperation between egos, there wouldn't have been a problem. Violence would lessen if people just cooperated but at the moment we don't care about other people. Dysfunctional society leads to dysfunctional people.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by ghaleon12]