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Reparations

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posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 07:46 AM
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I'm going to start posting some things that I observe from my job. Ill post one situation at a time.

Lets start with minority participation requirements.

I am an estimator for construction work. One requirement we have to worry about is minority participation. Basically minority participation requirements state how what percentage of your total contract value must be subcontracted out to companies owned by "disadvantaged citizens". Women, and minorities are these disadvantaged companies.

How it works:

The companies bidding on the given project would be required to hire X% of minority subcontractors (or purchase materials from X% of minority distributers). The percentage can vary. Usually 15%-25%. This seems all well and good on the surface. Im sure many of you are thinking right now "So what?".

Well, here is what really happens. The free market dictates how much cost it takes to complete construction work in this instance. If I was a subcontractor or material supplier, and I wanted to work on this given project, I would have to have the best price on materials or work. Enter Minority participation requirements. Anyone know what I am about to say?

Companies owned by minorities intentionally inflate the costs of their goods or services. They don't have to compete any more. You would think..."well maybe they compete against each other?" Well, they do in a way. Just at a higher rate.

Now, you might want to tell me that these guys arent inflating their costs intentionally, but rather, they are truly disadvantaged. That would be a valid argument. Unfortunately for those who wish to go that route, not all jobs have minority requirements. They compete just fine on the ones without it.

Now, the inflation on costs usually runs about 6-8%. Sometimes more, but not usually less than 6%. That can amount to 30 grand or more in unecessary spending on an small to average construction job. Way more than that on the big ones.

Play with this one for a while. Give me your thoughts. Honestly. I am looking for insight.




posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk
If you are showing how stupid AA and being racist to not be racist is than I agree,

But if you are really saying whites should be given ANY spiecal treatment than I dont


I don't feel like anyone should get any special treatment, I was just making a statement to get peoples attention. I am not racist, I do feel as if affirmative action and other related requirements are just a divider. They are almost instigators of racism to be honest.

[Edited on 4/5/2004 by Seapeople]



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Thanks for reposting that. I already read it. It has what I like to refer to as opinions in it. Nothing based on fact.

Let me ask you one final time before I realize that your mental capacity is truly to far below mine to have an intelligent discussion based on facts and numbers.

I'll just twiddle my thumbs while I'm running away from you for a little longer. Anyone else who has relevant information on this topic is free to join in. I have a feeling Jethro over hear is going to need some help.

[Edited on 4/5/2004 by Seapeople]


Hmm, facts and numbers you say?

To require them you should need to provide some yourself (not like this entire discussion requires them).

But, I'll do them by the "numbers" for you.

1) To help common white men cope with and recover from lost jobs and oppurtunities that in some cases, less qualified colored Americans took from them in the name of Affirmative action.

This is almost impossible (if nothing else cost ineffective). You'd be hard pressed to find a minority and a white man who had the same qualifications and the job went to the minority. After that, how would you even track it to determine how many lost out? Job loss in America is due to larger factors than just this one. I think you've seen it in the news lately. Corporate corruption for one? My wife lost her job because of that. Outsourcing. Then you could look at Steel, the Maritime industry on the whole, farming, etc (all government subsidized industries due to the high cost of production and operation in America).

2) To help young white college prospects cope with not being admitted into college classes that in some cases, less qualified colored Americans were admitted to in the name of Affirmative action.

Oh, wait. What about Legacy and athletics? There is more wrong in the economic side of public education than the racial. Considering there are more poor white Americans than any other race, it would stand to reason that more white Americans did not get into college (should they choose to go) because of poor school systems than because of race. Hence my comment about changing the scope of AA on a temporary basis while we can restructure the public school system to reduce redundancy and inequity. This would also save money in the long run considering effectiveness in operation leads to effective spending.

3) To help white American students cope with lower scores on standardized tests, that colored Americans were able to score higher on in the name of Affirmative action.

I was under the impression that race on standardized testing was for statistical purposes. If you have information to the contrary, post it. That would be worth looking at.

4) To help corporations cope with the struggles and lost production brought onto them from the forced quota system that requires them to hire in some cases, less qualified colored Americans over a more qualified white American.

Trust me they don't need your help. Companies budget for loss regardless of the reason. The whole point here is that Affermative Action was an extreme measure to adjust an extreme problem, and it worked in the past. There is just not enough to justify a drastic flop back to the pre-AA time.

5) To help white American citizens cope with the reality that there will never be a W.E.T. (White Entertainment Television) that allows them to sustain there culture and traditions.

Perhaps you've seen WET. It's every channel BUT those designated to BET and the like.


Here's the facts buddy. I am a conservative who hates social spending. I am against Affermative Action except that which I said above (obviously temporary and only for colleges).

Now I'll wait to hear your reply, preferably without the venom you seem to like so much.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by Amuk
If you are showing how stupid AA and being racist to not be racist is than I agree,

But if you are really saying whites should be given ANY spiecal treatment than I dont


I don't feel like anyone should get any special treatment, I was just making a statement to get peoples attention. I am not racist, I do feel as if affirmative action and other related requirements are just a divider. They are almost instigators of racism to be honest.

[Edited on 4/5/2004 by Seapeople]



I thought that was where you were going with this and in that case we agree.

Its funny how many people will accept special treatment for every other group but if you say it is for whites they start screaming racisim.

Racisim is Racisim reguardless of the color



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople

"I don't feel like anyone should get any special treatment..."

Agreed.

I am not racist, I do feel as if affirmative action and other related requirements are just a divider.

Agreed.

They are almost instigators of racism to be honest.

Well sort of. It is not so much a instigator directly though. It has come to pass that now minorities think they have special treatment owed to them (which is one reason I dislike social spending) which it is becoming less and less needed everyday. Now that the program has outlived it's usefulness, it's time to take it away. The racial witchhunters in this country are pushing their agenda by having the ability to claim racism anytime someone speaks against what the want/feel the are entitled to. For example, should someone want to close the border (a standard national security step), they would be called anti-hispanic (by the nice folks) and dirty racist bigots by most others. When that happens, the white folks get pissed. Therein lies the problem.

[Edited on 4/5/2004 by Seapeople]



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:02 AM
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Jethro,

Ok, as far as your response to point one. Where it would be hard to find jobs that go to less qualified minorities. Minority participation is a near every day issue with me and my job. I can assure you that I have no choice but to use minorities who are less qualified, and cost more.

You responded to that post well though. As if everything I was saying was a bunch of nonsense. Thats what I wanted everyone to see.

I'm going to keep posting more relevant instances. I don't think people realize the gravity of government interference with the free market. I know that most people don't.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:02 AM
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"slap a white boy" --- lyric from a song by militant hip hop group Dead Prez. But dammit, I love them. I don't care if they are racist towards white people. At least they got a somewhat legimitate reason, while white supremacists just think they're best without anything to back it up.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Seapeople

"I don't feel like anyone should get any special treatment..."

Agreed.

I am not racist, I do feel as if affirmative action and other related requirements are just a divider.

Agreed.

They are almost instigators of racism to be honest.

Well sort of. It is not so much a instigator directly though. It has come to pass that now minorities think they have special treatment owed to them (which is one reason I dislike social spending) which it is becoming less and less needed everyday. Now that the program has outlived it's usefulness, it's time to take it away. The racial witchhunters in this country are pushing their agenda by having the ability to claim racism anytime someone speaks against what the want/feel the are entitled to. For example, should someone want to close the border (a standard national security step), they would be called anti-hispanic (by the nice folks) and dirty racist bigots by most others. When that happens, the white folks get pissed. Therein lies the problem.

[Edited on 4/5/2004 by Seapeople]


I have to retract every rude and inconsiderate remark that I have made towards you. That last paragraph may have been the most intelligent post that I have seen on this website.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Jethro,

Ok, as far as your response to point one. Where it would be hard to find jobs that go to less qualified minorities. Minority participation is a near every day issue with me and my job. I can assure you that I have no choice but to use minorities who are less qualified, and cost more.

You responded to that post well though. As if everything I was saying was a bunch of nonsense. Thats what I wanted everyone to see.

I'm going to keep posting more relevant instances. I don't think people realize the gravity of government interference with the free market. I know that most people don't.


Well, Affermative Action, while wrong in some ways, was one liberal program that did what it was intended to do.

But I think it should have gone away in the early 90's, but most definately by now.

We can not hope to end racism with racist laws on the books.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Seapeople
Jethro,


But I think it should have gone away in the early 90's, but most definately by now.

We can not hope to end racism with racist laws on the books.



I agree with this part racisim swang one way then the other both were wrong but both were in the past it time for us ALL to move on



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk
I agree with this part racisim swang one way then the other both were wrong but both were in the past it time for us ALL to move on


Ah, but the problem is, is that saying "move on" makes them mad (some). It is conscrewed as asking them to forget 400 years of oppression.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 10:17 AM
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I see seapeople didn't return with the post where I supported reparations. This is just a bait to get his racism out.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel
I see seapeople didn't return with the post where I supported reparations. This is just a bait to get his racism out.


I still havent even started looking. My apologies. It may take a while. I am sure there has been more than one occasion too.

I am going to take this time to point out something though. I have never told you that you have the spirit of cain. Even when it was apparent how wrong you were in any given situation. The chip you hold on your shoulder Mr. Colonel, is far too big for you to carry. Try putting it down and living life like most everyone else.

See the light colonel! Come over to our side! Rational thinking is kinda cool sometimes.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel
I see seapeople didn't return with the post where I supported reparations. This is just a bait to get his racism out.


Normally I would agree with you Colonel. But actually I think that maybe it was a Devil's Advocate move to get the interest spike and really drive home involvement.

Much like Howard Stern. Ever notice how he hooks people with Stripers answering easy questions (wrongly might I add).

But then he throws in politics in the mix and all those people hear his voice.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by Colonel
I see seapeople didn't return with the post where I supported reparations. This is just a bait to get his racism out.


I still havent even started looking. My apologies. It may take a while. I am sure there has been more than one occasion too.

I am going to take this time to point out something though. I have never told you that you have the spirit of cain. Even when it was apparent how wrong you were in any given situation. The chip you hold on your shoulder Mr. Colonel, is far too big for you to carry. Try putting it down and living life like most everyone else.

See the light colonel! Come over to our side! Rational thinking is kinda cool sometimes.



Wait wait wait wait wait. I know how Colonel comes across, but you have to see through the anger of a man who has his eyes open (even if sometimes he comes to wrong assumations about the information).

The more a man digs in the inter workings of man, humanity, government, etc the more the man becomes discouraged and sad.

Sadness or hurt is the base emotion of anger, and since anger is the only emotion that requires a direction, he has chosen his.

All of us who dwell deep in the trenches have rage.

Some push it down, some use it as fuel, and some lash. None are bad or wrong when done correctly.

His anger seems righteous to me albeit sometimes misdirected or an overkill.

See through to the point and you will see the logic.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Wait wait wait wait wait. I know how Colonel comes across, but you have to see through the anger of a man who has his eyes open (even if sometimes he comes to wrong assumations about the information).

The more a man digs in the inter workings of man, humanity, government, etc the more the man becomes discouraged and sad.

Sadness or hurt is the base emotion of anger, and since anger is the only emotion that requires a direction, he has chosen his.

All of us who dwell deep in the trenches have rage.

Some push it down, some use it as fuel, and some lash. None are bad or wrong when done correctly.

His anger seems righteous to me albeit sometimes misdirected or an overkill.

See through to the point and you will see the logic.


This is an excellent summation of the Colonel. Kudos to you, sir.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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This is an excellent summation of the Colonel. Kudos to you, sir.

Hey KJ, here is a moist towel to clean yourself up with.

You can keep it.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Amuk
I agree with this part racisim swang one way then the other both were wrong but both were in the past it time for us ALL to move on


Ah, but the problem is, is that saying "move on" makes them mad (some). It is conscrewed as asking them to forget 400 years of oppression.





My family was chased down beheaded and tortured there lands taken away and the survivers shipped to America to be slaves and fighters for the English, the very people that opperessed them to begin with.


Should I hold a grudge and want my land back?

Or should I move on?

NOTHING I OR THE ENGLISH can do will change the past.


Its not going on today so why should I someone that was not harmed by it at all, be mad at a group of people that had nothing to do with what happened?

I am not gonna forget it its part of my families past but I will be damned if it will consume the present.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel
I see seapeople didn't return with the post where I supported reparations. This is just a bait to get his racism out.



I for one have NEVER seen you support them, quite the oppisite.

And we have had this debate how many times?....LOL



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk

I for one have NEVER seen you support them, quite the oppisite.

And we have had this debate how many times?....LOL


Thank you, Amuk. I hate being libeled.

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by Colonel]




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