India Under Terror Attack! At least ten people killed in Mumbai shootings: TV (now 125 +)

reply to post by Daedalus3


I may be off base here, but this story has a lot of different ways it could be interpreted. I mean, from the Pakistani point of view, this proposal could be seen as a renigg on the accords India had struck with Mushariff. I mean, not really, as it doesn't affect the boarder, but it could be spun that way.
I can see why people would become irrate over that. Plus the plans to dam up the river.

reply to post by resistor


I see your point there, but remember, the police were severely outgunned in terms of technology. When you are using a bolt action rifle against a man with a fully automatic assault rifle, you're going to be worried.

Plus, I doubt the order to not fire on them wouldn't have had legs after they started picking off policemen. I would guess they were just scared.

If you were a new grunt "terrorist in training", how would you go about verifying the affiliation of you "methods ans tatics" instructors?


Your leaders may claim to be A/Q, Let, ISI, CIA, or Shin Bet for that matter; but how You be able to verify thier claims?


How do you know that they are training you for the cause You are willing to die for?



The primary focus of organized intelligence agencies is, of course, Other intelligence agencies! It is reasonable to assume that, say, the CIA, would be well versed in the methods and tatics of say the Pakistani ISI, and the LeT, wouldn't it?




So, is it possible that even if the Mumbai terrorists Believed they were trained by, and working with/for one group (LeT, Pakistani Navy, for example), could they not have actually been mere dupes for another agency/interest?





Something else courious:


Given the intensity of US interest in Pakistan most recently, and the scope of the planning and logistics the Mumbai operation required, isn't it odd that US inteligence apparently had not a hint of "chatter" regarding this operation?


Or, at least, that no "heads-up" was ever passed to the Indian government.



Or perhaps the CIA/NSA knew "something" was up, but figured whatever happened, it would be a "Win/Win" situation for American interests in the region, and merely stayed quiet.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by Bhadhidar]

reply to post by 27jd


I understand your point, but we really have no way of knowing the situation around the gunman in that picture. Maybe he was in an empty room and was shouting across to an accomplise. I mean, I doubt ANYONE would walk around rifle-at-ready for over 30 hours straight.

Oh sure, if it had happened here in the states it would have been over very quickly, depending on where. Here in my neck of the woods, many people are armed. The gunmen would have been outgunned.

Edit to add - Everything about this attack screams at my spidey-senses that this was carried out by people very well trained to do just what they were planning to do.



[edit on 29-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

reply to post by Bhadhidar


Its simple, when somebody is training you and tells you to make sure to go around and kill American and British citizens, you know you work for the CIA because no other intelligence unit would order you to do such a thing.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


They had many places to hide and rest. Not to mention the confusion for the Indian counterterrorist units and police/army personnel that can't tell who is who and how many at the time.

reply to post by deltaboy


I'm not so sure that was actually the order though... As I illustrated earlier, even if you doubled the actual western casualties, it is barely 20% of the numbers reported...

I think if there is any CIA involvement, it is on behalf of what we're hearing through the media. I mean, they can achieve the same ends by simply spinning the reports to make it sound that way. They don't actually have to be involved.
BUT, the CIA is pretty damned shady, as we all know, so it IS a possibility.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


How could they tell who they were killing? You think everybody you asked is going to lie or admit they are American or British citizen? We have numerous number of Indian-Americans as well. Kill em all and let Allah sort them out.

reply to post by deltaboy


Consider the fact that Mumbai is the eighth largest city in the world. It is the financial hub of India. They attacked some of the most prominent Hotels in that city.
I'm quite certain there would have been MANY westerners there, even the ones that are OBVIOUSLY westerners. Probably are at any given time, actually (businessmen from New York City, etc.)...
Fact is, they could have killed many, many more Westerners, if they were so inclined.



[edit on 29-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

reply to post by Bhadhidar
I found this on a yahoo chatroom, its from a poster named GG.

No doubt it is a tragedy,so many innocent were killed,but it looks to be a master plan to de-rail the economic growth of India as it was growing over 9%,Chinese growth was over 11% and Pakistan's growth was over 6.5%.Chinese have gone down to below 9% or may be further low due to one scandal or the other(Toys+Food)Pakistan had fallen due to extreme internal situation/ terriorism.Now India is being portayed as unsafe destination for investment due to terrorism,IS THIS A NEW STRATEGY/world order ? (some spelling edits)

One thing I can't get is just how one dude could roam the Hotel Taj for what was it, 3 days? Shooting, nading, kniving/bashing, weaving in and out of rooms like someone owning other dudes in some multiplayer room

I thought I saw somewhere in the news, when they finally killed or wounded him, they threw him out of a window to his death. It could have been another gunman though.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by star in a jar]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by star in a jar]

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


But many of them were escaping both westerners and native Indians. Depending on the number of gunmen, they can't secure the whole entire hotel complex even with an AK47 and grenades and other types of explosives. Not to mention they have to reload each time they fire 30 rounds, not Rambo cheat code unlimited rounds that fires nonstop.

reply to post by deltaboy


I don't know, man. It could really go either way. I'm not swayed. I don't think they were targetting Westerners specifically. To me, if that were the case, they would have tried a more covert way of taking hostages.

In fact, it seems that most of the Western Hostages taken were eventually rescued. The Jewish Hostages weren't so lucky.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


A more covert way? I think their purpose is to get attention. Here Americans Americans Americans. Where are you? I have a juicy 7.62 round for your brain.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Not to mention they have to reload each time they fire 30 rounds, not Rambo cheat code unlimited rounds that fires nonstop.

Not if they had 70 round drums.

Anyways, we'll have to see what the final count end up being as far as the number of gunmen. I just don't think they were trained further than their camps, I don't think it makes sense to send your best men on suicide missions, regardless who you work for.

reply to post by deltaboy


Sure a more covert way. When you rampage through the streets and then storm into Hotels...

Actually, strike that. That would be the perfect way to herd people INTO the Hotels. But still, once inside they would have found MANY Westerners. They only killed a few. I think they were more concerned with just holding the Hotels down and actually, when considering numbers in groups, they killed more policemen than anything.
Well, aside from the initial carnage with the bombs at the gas stations and such that killed many citizens.

Also, according to the info MikeSingh brought forward last night, it seems they were also concerned with blowing up the tower at the Taj... Making a statement against the Symbol of India.
Very Vendetta like. Just saying.



[edit on 29-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


They have found many Westerners, but as I have said before they could not successfully secured the place, preventing anybody from escaping or covering such large places in few hours. You saw videos of people escaping by the windows and yet no reaction from the terrorists which would tell you that they don't know, or don't have the manpower to get all of them. Anyways hotels aren't just for westerners but for native Indians as well, not to mention many of them who work in the hotels as well as as places that were attacked. Remember that video where one terrorist was driving around and shooting? That show why many Indians were killed than compare to casualties of the foreigners.

reply to post by deltaboy


"
Its simple, when somebody is training you and tells you to make sure to go around and kill American and British citizens, you know you work for the CIA because no other intelligence unit would order you to do such a thing.
"
I would say that your assessment there is spot on however. I guess like jd said, we'll know more when and if we get final tallies. But I wouldn't hold my breath for those. In the meantime, 3 or 4 Americans, while tragic, probably won't grab ahold in the Average American Citizen's mind that we need to have our government rush in to the rescue... If the tallies go up and we hear of many more American deaths, we could maybe then say they were specifically targeting Americans.
Aside from that, I would almost be willing to wager that these attacks WILL provoke futher American involvement in Pakistan.

Had they included more men, they would have endured the siege and kill many more.

Think about Columbine. How many were killed? How many stayed in the school and how many escaped? Doors are locked, there are many rooms to cover. You think hundreds should have been dead, but there weren't. 2 kids to go on a rampage in a very large campus.

Originally posted by Jinni
Kashmiris are being terrorised, oppressed, raped, killed, tortured, mutilated, sterilised on a DAILY basis by the Indian Gov forces.

You know what son, they deserve it!!!
By randomly blowing themselves up, and mass murdering innocent civilians, they've done it to themselves.
Now go hump Prince Charles... !

Originally posted by Jinni
IT IS A PAKISTAN ISSUE because Kashmir (Muslim majority) should have been partitioned to Pakistan but the British intentionally sowed the seeds for what is going on today.

India is not a Hindu country, and this is coming from a Christian, born in western India, living abroad.

Originally posted by Jinni
What's needed is for Indian Hindu Terrorists to stop terrorising the Kashimiri people and then perhaps they won't mind whether they are administered by India or Pakistan.

No!
What's needed is for Kashmiri's(Hindu & Muslim alike) who don't want Kashmir to be part of India to pack up, and hop onto the other side of the border in Pakistan.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Fair enough, but I'd have to be awfully scared to just lie there and get shot with a loaded gun in my hand.

Here is some more evidence of the ethnic diversity of the attackers, a picture of one of the gunmen with a red cord tied around his right wrist. That’s a Hindu practice, not a Muslim one.

luqmaninbmore.blogspot.com...