India Under Terror Attack! At least ten people killed in Mumbai shootings: TV (now 125 +)

reply to post by Raustin

The Mumbai Police Anti-terrorist Squad commander was killed leading his team into the railroad station when the terrorists threw grenades at them. But I recall reading on Times of India's website that he had received threats that his house would be blown up but I suspect that's the baggage that comes with the job rather then directly related to the Battle of Mumbai.

Originally posted by Raustin
reply to post by 44soulslayer

 

I'm gonna stick with third rate army but impressive CT... Any armed force still using Enfields is third rate. I am amazed more hostages were not killed. I still wonder if there was a specific person of interest for the terrorists. heck they got the ATS.

The failings of the Indian state in this case IMO:

1. Clear failure of Intelligence

2. Clear failure of Marine Border Protection

3. Highly sub-par equipment for security guards and policemen (as I said, WW2 relics like the .303 calibre). I don't think its fair to call it a third rate army... since they are policemen, not army soldiers. They aren't equipped to deal with warfare.

4. The NSG took 8 hrs to reach the scene, they should have been brought in faster.

What was truly impressive to me was the NSG operation. Highly calm and collected, with not a single NSG commando, nor a hostage lost as yet; while all but 3 terrorists have been taken out/ captured.

Areas for India to improve upon are the police force's equipment; the need for better intelligence; the need for a rapid action SWAT force located in every city.

It's not the army that are third rate mate, its only the police equipment. Even then I admire the policemen who went into battle with a bolt action .303 knowing that they would face AKs!

reply to post by SonicInfinity


I can't see why Thanksgiving would figure into their plans, this being a uniquely American holiday. Unless the whole thing was planned and executed for consumption by the western (read:American) market. Seems like a stretch.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Don't mean to discredit the pic or anything , but that is far from blond.

The man has dark brown hair and the boy seems to have light brown hair.

Nowhere near sunlight blond really...

reply to post by Raustin and post by xenomorph07


Yeah, I know, but I still find it to be an odd coincidence. After all, this gives the media something to talk about for the entire day. Now, if something like this happens this Christmas, we can chalk it up for false flag for certain.

Originally posted by Raustin
reply to post by 44soulslayer

 

I'm gonna stick with third rate army but impressive CT... Any armed force still using Enfields is third rate. I am amazed more hostages were not killed. I still wonder if there was a specific person of interest for the terrorists. heck they got the ATS.

An army is not defined by its equipment.
If you have no training and have a rocket launcher and a minigun you can still be killed by a trained unarmed person/soldier/ninja.

reply to post by 44soulslayer



The failings of the Indian state in this case IMO:

1. Clear failure of Intelligence

2. Clear failure of Marine Border Protection

Agreed. Not trying to knock the people in the military or police forces, just the equipment that was being used for the first eight hours of this incident. Completely unacceptable that it took that long to mobilize a force that would be able to cope with the threat. Probably going to be some new SWAT teams springing up as a result of this.

reply to post by raptorinvictus


True, but when you have a bunch of guys with AKs and try to respond with bolt actions you are most likely going to lose especially in a MOUT operation. To further this point, a predator beats a guy with a gun. Again, not trying to knock any police or military, knocking equipment is completely valid.

Its not that unusual, apparently some British police armories still have a few Webley revolvers laying around and some US law enforcement agencies "grandfathered" in the officers that chose to continue carrying revolvers when the agency switched to semi auto pistols, last count has about 400 out of 32,000 NYPD officers still carrying revolvers of various types - granted most of these are detectives and higher ranking officers.

The NYPD's Emergency Services Unit tactical teams did not switch from the Ruger Mini 14 (first produced in 1973) to the Colt M4 until 2003. Though H&K MP5s were more commonly used anyways.

reply to post by Roufas


From an Indian point of view, that kid's hair is blond! I wouldn't split hairs (no pun intended) over colour tones etc.

If an Indian saw a man like the one in the photo, they would be described as "foreign, fair skinned and with light hair". Not to mention that the eyewitness account mentioned there is bizarre... a blond attacker with his hair in a mohican? Surely if this was a false flag there are better ways of doing it.

Some strange lines of inquiries have come up on this thread! Hindu terrorists, blonde attackers from Blackwater etc. The real conspiracy here is why are the leaders already in Bombay claiming that laws need tightening and ID cards need to be introduced etc.

reply to post by raptorinvictus


Gotta go but ...
Training counts upto a point. I still wouldn't want to go up against an AK with a turnbolt in close quarters battle, no matter what the training. Even though the Enfield has the fastest bolt of all military turnbolts .

Originally posted by trusername


But FBI is Federal Bureau of Investigations - right? Federal not international.

Shouldn't it be Interpol if anyone?

It's like sending our Coast Guard to take down the pirates in Somalia?

It's fishy. India has a billion people or there abouts, you mean to tell me it needs our FBI - when their people know the place far better and the situation.

too odd.

We need our FBI to go overseas and gather intelligence and forensics data, among other things. You have to be [snip] me if you think the CIA or the military does it all. If you think the CIA are the only "spies" we have that go overseas to gather data - think again.

The FBI doesn't just investigate terrorist threats in the US, they routinely go overseas to gather forensic data and other intelligence on terrorism. They also send hostage rescue teams to help U.S. citizens. In 2003, they were deployed on more than 200 missions in just Afghanistan and Iraq.

FBI HRT is an elite Counter-Terrorism group... up there with the likes of Delta (who they train with, btw).

Read this, it might give you at least a little idea of what the FBI has been doing.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Anyway, yeah. Read up, you might be surprised how the U.S. started running around the world in a frenzy like a chicken with it's head cut off after 9/11 trying to fix the problems with our intelligence.




Mod Edit: Profanity removed. Please see Terms and Conditions of Use section 1b) Profanity. Thank you - Jak

[edit on 27/11/08 by JAK]

reply to post by gooberiffic

Is it true that its so fast that some good shooters can fire the whole clip almost automatically?

Pakistan warns India against attack accusations

Says linking it to Mumbai terrorism would 'destroy all the goodwill'

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Pakistan warned India against accusing of it links to the Mumbai terror attacks Thursday, saying doing so would "destroy all the goodwill" between the two nuclear-armed rivals.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

And so it begins...

post by 44soulslayer[/url]
The failings of the Indian state in this case IMO:
1. Clear failure of Intelligence
2. Clear failure of Marine Border Protection
Agreed. Not trying to knock the people in the military or police forces, just the equipment that was being used for the first eight hours of this incident. Completely unacceptable that it took that long to mobilize a force that would be able to cope with the threat. Probably going to be some new SWAT teams springing up as a result of this.

44soulslayer,

The Indian government had 41,000 police and paramilitary forces on location, all mobilized during the events. this contradicts what the media says. They also used their highly trained MARCOS unit of navy seals to assault hotels and free hostages.

Intelligence did not fail, they cooperated in a planned operation, keeping regular forces in the dark and making sure their key coordinator, anti-terror chief for Mumbai died fast. The designation of US or British citizens by hostage takers is a key to the story: this is meant to justify invasion by US/British forces of Pakistan. Obama (lap dog of Bzrezinsky) wants to invade Pakistan, and has voiced this repeatedly.

Others here, this is not meant to convince us, just to use as a brainwashing scare tactic for the masses and to preclude rebellion of their own troups who would disobey if they knew that their bosses were the real instigators, not some phantom enemy worthy of a pre-war comic strip. The Illuminati have struck again. What does it take to convince you? Can't you see the WTC writing on the wall?

reply to post by SonicInfinity


Only if it happens on American soil. Now a terrorist attack on American shopping malls on Black Friday, that would be something to talk about. But this event seems solely in the realm of Indian/Pakistani relations. Really, what I think, is that some "group" or "organization" has planned and carried out this attack for several reasons.

First reason, would be to strain relations between India and Pakistan. The American involvement in these two nations is implied.
Second reason, to determine governmental and military responses typical in a "soft-target" attack such as this. Sure, the American SWAT team response would be different from the ASG response, but I think some outcomes could be extrapolated from this attack.
Imagine a terrorist organization launches an attack tomorrow, the busiest shopping day of the year in America. They hit malls, Wal-Marts, etc, fanning out over many cities or towns, each team taking out dozens of people before the law arrives. Then its down to a hostage situation...could get pretty ugly by the end of the day. Of course, they wouldn't do this test run the day before a major op in America. In other words, maybe someone is gathering intel on how to run a similar op in the US next year or so. Just a thought!

If they are bringing dried fruit with them, then they must be looking for an extended seige , so they intend to sleep as part of the plan. If hotels were pre defined targets and this so apparantly well planned , maybe some of the hotels guests are pre planted operatives to rotate with the ones that stormed the hotels . Maybe also explain the numbers , ie that 20 have escaped and yet still maintaining numbers in the hotels.

reply to post by 44soulslayer

What about the possibility the the attackers bleached their hair and gave themselves mohawks in order to confuse? Surely possible...

Can anyone direct me to a live news link of what's actually happening now? All the MSN channels are just showing old footage and interviews.

At 9pm, The BBC's Damian Grammaticas says: The most dangerous phase of this crisis may yet be to come as Indian security forces close in on the gunmen.

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil


Very good point. They may have pre-positioned some people. Not unlikely in such a sophisticated operation. This also makes hitting hotels a bonus attraction for them.