I think that was part of the plan in a sense. Jesus comes, saves mankind. He then commissions humanity to spread the word to "all corners". Paul was the first and the greatest. One of the points of Christianity is the bring the good news. If Jesus had brought it everywhere and all people bowed before his charisma, then the world ought to have ended there. But that wasn't the plan. The plan entailed a missionary who hated Christians at first to miraculously convert and then eventually die for the faith.

my two cents - I am neither Christian nor Pauline but a "son of God" as Yeshuah taught us.....Paul was a great man and often spoke as a man from his own mind - and told us when he was doing this as well...but he also spoke from the spirit....so I study Paul for his unflinching and undeniable grasp of the scriptures, and his willingness to tell the the hard truth...that said it is Yeshuah's words and life that always have the last word in mine...

those who call Paul homophobic have not made a thorough enough study of Torah, or Bible - as whole - and this is where Paul as the Pharisee he once was, gets the best of his critics....

Be that as it may and whatever your take on such matters - Happy thanksgiving to all of you biblical wranglers out there

Paul continued the teachings of Jesus, so for you to state that he somehow altered the Lessons of Christ, from his Origin, is not accurate. The only aspect upon which he differed, is that he used Christ as the example for Christianity, whereas Christ used his own Wisdom. So in effect, the Apostles, as well as Paul, were the first to teach the Faith completely towards and through Christ; or in other words, they were the first to teach and pass along the Faith through the Third Person Perspective, as Missionaries and Converts.

As for "Homophobia", what is wrong with someone simply not agreeing or approving of a certain lifestyle which they deem immoral? Christianity does not generally put forth a Negative Teaching in the light of "Homosexuals are bad", but rather it simply teaches that "Couples" are "Men and Women", and that we are the way we are for a God Given Reason, which is to Procreate Life. That in turn is taught to be a Blessing, and one which should be cherished, and not abused. To simply engage in a certain lifestyle, which is deemed for "Pleasure" and not "Purpose" of Devotion, and Procreation, is what all Three Major Religions actually frown upon. Homosexuality simply falls into the category of Non-Procreation, and thus I assume you could label it "Immoral".

Anyways, that is my best explanation, as I know everyone has differing opinions and interpretations.

I Corinthians 3:4

"For when one person says, "I follow Paul," and another person says, "I follow to Apollos," you're following your own human nature, aren't you?"

OT thankful to JC on Thx-giving...gonna eat some good turkey!

For those who say walk the narrow path.

Which path is more narrow -walking the path of Jesus, or just having to accept Jesus as your savior?

Why does Jesus tell the rich man to go give his riches to the poor and walk the path?

Why does Jesus repeatedly make an effort of saying those who do as he says are those with wisdom, and those who hear and do them not are fools.

Why does Jesus say if you love him and believe, you will walk the path.

Who are the people Jesus says will do many great works in his name, but Jesus will say he does not know them? The people running around telling people to accept Jesus, or the people who actually walk the path?

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Paul continued the teachings of Jesus, so for you to state that he somehow altered the Lessons of Christ, from his Origin, is not accurate. The only aspect upon which he differed, is that he used Christ as the example for Christianity, whereas Christ used his own Wisdom. So in effect, the Apostles, as well as Paul, were the first to teach the Faith completely towards and through Christ; or in other words, they were the first to teach and pass along the Faith through the Third Person Perspective, as Missionaries and Converts.

As for "Homophobia", what is wrong with someone simply not agreeing or approving of a certain lifestyle which they deem immoral? Christianity does not generally put forth a Negative Teaching in the light of "Homosexuals are bad", but rather it simply teaches that "Couples" are "Men and Women", and that we are the way we are for a God Given Reason, which is to Procreate Life. That in turn is taught to be a Blessing, and one which should be cherished, and not abused. To simply engage in a certain lifestyle, which is deemed for "Pleasure" and not "Purpose" of Devotion, and Procreation, is what all Three Major Religions actually frown upon. Homosexuality simply falls into the category of Non-Procreation, and thus I assume you could label it "Immoral".

Anyways, that is my best explanation, as I know everyone has differing opinions and interpretations.

How can Paul continue the teachings of Jesus when Jesus says there is but 1 teacher. When Jesus tells them not to make leaders of themselves.

How can Pauls teachings be a continuation when they go against the words of Jesus?

Am I to believe that Jesus was unable to do and finish the job he came for?

Am I to believe that the understanding I get from Jesus is false, and that only through Paul can I see the actual truth being told?

I think not.

You are free to have your opinion. But when you try to force your opinion onto others, and put yourself as above them and of right to do so. Then you have broken the commandment of love thy neighbor as thyself. Because you certainly wouldn't want someone forcing a way of life on you. It is not your place, and the only way you can get such authority is by breaking a commandment.

i'm a christian not a paulian but i do have one thing to say in his defense (and this is really the only thing i can say in his defense because i didn't know the man!):

i believe he's the equivalent of the christian moses. he did the best he could with the information he had available to him but he was afterall, just a human being, and humans bring their life experiences into their teaching. so where i think the problem is, is our tendency to elevate the words of men to the status of God-like authority, which i don't believe is correct. jesus even points out that the people of his time were guilty of doing the same thing to moses and his teachings. the laws were not all laws of God. some of them were moses' best attempts at keeping the peace.

the message being, the biblical text are there for instruction, or edification, for enlightenment but they are not God-breathed. The Holy Spirit is the new teacher, your body is the new temple, and the word is Jesus.. not a book put together by the roman catholic scholars and jewish rabbis.

This argument is utter nonsense. Paul was certainly one of the more prolific writers, and to the new Church he was apparently given to instruction as even in his own time, some of the Churches were not following Christ, which is what Paul taught. He even had to educate some of the other Apostles, when their pride got in their way.

The fact that he was called speaks to his truth, and he was confirmed by the other apostles.

Give it a rest. This is a bogus argument for anyone who has gotten into the New Testament and actually studied, not cherry picked a few scriptures our of context.

My my.

i would have to say i follow Jesus teachings (more often than not fail), as opposed to the paulian, i dont follow much of what the church says or does in fact i dont follow the church at all i always felt the church is too judgemental and only god can judge me

Badmedia you know it is not as simple as just accepting Jesus into your heart .
You first have to believe that he is >?How do you find that out ?Reading the word ...right ?I know none of us just decided to believe because someone told us we needed to ...at least I didnt ....... .....then you have to see that you need GOD in your life by ADMITTING that you sin and are caught up in them (the fleshly rules you) ...How would you know this ? by reading the word right ? The word delves right into why we are sinful and how our flesh rules our spirit etc ..........Then what about repenting ....you would not repent if you did not think you were committing sins (You may think everything is ok to do or say etc) like so many do ........How would you know what sin was unless you ?READ THE WORD ....
I did not read the word much either ..until I actually did for sure surrender my life over to the Lord ....(It did not happen at church ) after that night that it happened to me ....I wanted to read the word more than ever before .
It was the word that really helped me in understanding all of it ..
Sure Jesus comes to me in my dreams (ALOT) but nothing he ever says to me is contrary to scripture ..in fact I have had angels come to me in the middle of the night and explain scripture to me once when I was stuck on trying to understand something I had read in the scriptures .............
But still the word has it all in there and then it is the HOLY SPIRIT that teaches us to understand it (THY WORD HAVE I HID IN MY HEART SO THAT I MAY NOT SIN AGAINST THEE) >>..I read the word and then ask the Lord to help me understand it ...it really works for me to understand ....


About Paul ..just the fact that he used to be so bad (He killed Christians)..shows me just how merciful God is to us .....He forgave him ..not only that but he worked for the Lord from then on out ...even giving his own life up and following Jesus .....Pauls testimony was one of the reasons why I believed that the Lord could also forgive me of things I have done (even though I didnt do anything that serious) I still see that there is HOPE for anyone .......even some of those here at ATS who murder Christ all over again in their hearts ....................he still loves them and would forgive them in a heartbeat if they would just ask him to ..Paul is an awesome example of who Jesus is willing to save ...dont you think ?
I do not follow anyone but the Lord Jesus ...but I sure do not toss out those who are my FELLOW BRETHREN in the Lord who walked with him and were eyewitnesses to what he did and said ....(The Apostles) ...............
They all inspire me ....just like some Christians do .....I would not toss out anything they could teach me ..because I am not unteachable ...and I know for a fact I do not know it all ..and we do learn from eachother if we are willing .....some are gifted knowing some things (Prophecy) all have different gifts and I personally enjoy other believers and do learn alot from them ..(not all of them but the real ones sure can touch you and inspire you and teach you some things ...) .at least they have me ..



[edit on 27-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

I struggled greatly regarding Paul's writings and teachings. The greatest struggle coming from the fact that he declared himself, and as most do today, to be an apostle which would make him the 13th. This clearly goes against Rev 21:14 and the fact the remaining eleven apostles prayed and drew lots to choose the 12th Apostle Matthias to replace Judas. (Acts 1:24-25). Another point is that Paul gives 3 different accounts of his actions and those with him during the vision of Christ which led to his conversion on the way to Damascus. (Acts 9:4-8, 22:6-9, 26:12-14) Furthermore Christ reestablished the foundation of true worship with Peter, not Paul. Anyhow, I will sum it up by saying that I believe this entire Paulianity observance is one of many warnings that Christ was pointing to when he gave us the parable of the wheat and the tares. (Matt 13:24-30, 37-43). I no longer teach from the pauline epistles, I stick to the scriptures, the gospel and the non-pauline epistle books of the NT. Just my two cents worth.

Hi,
Pauls preaching had been challenged during his period, specially by Barnabas. There is a Gospel allegdly wriiten by Barnabas which may give some light on this. Google: Gospel of Barnabas.

Paul was known as Saul and a persecutor of Christians. He killed and helped kill many of them. He never met Jesus and didn't even live at the time of Jesus.

Now if you were against Christianity, and wanted to persecute them further, what better way to do like Paul and claim to have a direct link with their god, and then corrupt their teachings with his own teachings?

GOD dont like homosexuality
(long before Paul)
he nuked Sodom and Gomorrah for it