Religion, I dont buy it, anyone else? And your vieuws

With all respect too all people, that do believe, Id like too open this thread.

I am a man of one religion, the no religion. I do not believe in a god, that made us all, with magic hands, and also made animals/trees etc. etc.
I mean, thats what man made up I believe, they need someone too look up too, a leader, a reason for how they got here.
I realy dont buy that, and I think its one of the biggest conspiracys ever known in the history of man.
Although so much people, do firmly believe in god, and pray too him.
Sure some times things realy turn out for what you prayed, but isnt this just the law of attraction? Us, influencing our own universe.

I am very intrested in other peoples vieuws.
On things like,
Why you dont believe? Or why you do believe?
And your arguments for it.

Again, all respect too people! We all allowed our own beliefs.

reply to post by TheFearless


How do you think we got here?

I have a real hard time thinking there was a big bang or something. Everything we have we made, buildings, cars, computers, and none are as complicated as humans. But some how we came by chance?

Have you ever seen the inside of a pocket watch? Very complicated, with all these gears and things inside. Now if you went to a factory where these are made, it had all the parts to make one, and you blew it up, how many working watches would you have? Its simple...none. You could blow it up millions of times and never get a working watch.

I understand what you mean.
But I dont agree, its just very hard too belief, that theres one powerfull being, that made us.
How did that powerfull being (god) get there then?

Life`s hardest questions.

reply to post by TheFearless


I agree with the Title of your thread and think it could be a great topic, I do however believe in what you called the magic man that created all the people and the animals and plants etc.

But I do not believe in Religion, most of them are only fronts or some secret society or some ancient pagan cult and last but not least they pass the buckets all the time. Pay the church for your sins kinda deal which I believe is hogwash. I think Religion is mans attempt to reach God in some respects but I think it misses the mark to often and turns people off more than brings to the Bible.

Most people who are fervently anti-GOD were brought up in a fundamentalist some denomination church that scared the hell out of them and pushed them away from the Bible or God. While I believe the Bible is the true and inerrant WORD of GOD, I do not believe that most religions follow it.

The last thing Jesus said to his Disciples was "Take not a begging bag with you." This meant don't beg for money, if you're doing the work of God you will be taken care of. But go into any denominational church today and what is the first thing they do? YUP passing that begging bag. Hell I went to a church last week for the first time in a long time with a friend and they passed the plate twice, no kidding TWO TIMES. One they said was the Tithe and the other a "Love Gift". What the hell is a Love Gift that is what I want to know.

Anyways this thread will be an interesting one, thanks for posting it.

Yeah, thats a hard concept to grasp.

But, how do you believe we got here?

reply to post by lucidclouds


With this you're implying that god is like man? Since we made the things that we use today, God had to have made us?

I agree with you OP, it just doesn't sit right with me, there's a lot of possibilities of how we could have come into existence but in my mind some guy decided to make us isn't one of them and doesn't make sense and is totally baseless, meaning there's no evidence ("the bible told us so" doesn't count as evidence to me).

It is possible that this all happened by chance, meaning that the Earth was exactly the right distance from the sun and the temperature was just right to support the beginnings of early life.

As strange as it might sound as well with my beliefs on God I do believe in intelligent design.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by Shocka]

Originally posted by lucidclouds
reply to post by TheFearless

 

How do you think we got here?

I have a real hard time thinking there was a big bang or something. Everything we have we made, buildings, cars, computers, and none are as complicated as humans. But some how we came by chance?

Have you ever seen the inside of a pocket watch? Very complicated, with all these gears and things inside. Now if you went to a factory where these are made, it had all the parts to make one, and you blew it up, how many working watches would you have? Its simple...none. You could blow it up millions of times and never get a working watch.

the Brahma myth coninsides very nicely with the big bang theory.

I would not worhip brahma but it does coincide with what scientists tell us happened

en.wikipedia.org...

perhaps the reason that we made god to be like a human is because some people cannot grasp wider theories of the creation of the universe?

"With this you're implying that god is like man? Since we made the things that we use today, God had to have made us?"

Yes, I believe we are made in his image.


Also I wouldn't say it is baseless. Humans have been worshiping something that they belived created them, ever since we have been here.

So intelligent design by who?

How do you believe we got here?

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by TheFearless

 

.
Most people who are fervently anti-GOD were brought up in a fundamentalist some denomination church that scared the hell out of them and pushed them away from the Bible or God. While I believe the Bible is the true and inerrant WORD of GOD, I do not believe that most religions follow it.


Anyways this thread will be an interesting one, thanks for posting it.

i strongly disagree with this assertion

I arrived at what I think because in my house I was allowed to read freely anything I wanted to read and my parents did not have particularly strong religious convictions and neither did the community in general

I do not believe in religion because when you line up all the religions and see what they are all saying and they all claim to be the one true religion and the one true god and then you add some books from other sources written at the same time as the holy books you just cannot help but see it all as an attempt to manipulate people

as lenin said - religion is the opium of the ignorant

Reply to LucidClouds:

I believe something that I don't feel comfortable explaining here as I will get flamed and because I'm not quite sure if I believe it either, it's just the one thing that makes most sense to me.

I think that religion has been distorted by man throughout the years. It was one thing when ancient people worshiped their "gods" because in reality they were worshiping that which gave them life which was the Earth itself not a divine being per say.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by Shocka]

There may very well be a god (or not) but that doesn't of course mean that any of the organised religious institutions on this planet have got it right (and they are not just man made,self serving,cynicaly aggrandizing mechanisms of control promoting superiority complexes via cult logic).




[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by megabyte

Originally posted by lucidclouds
reply to post by TheFearless

 

How do you think we got here?

I have a real hard time thinking there was a big bang or something. Everything we have we made, buildings, cars, computers, and none are as complicated as humans. But some how we came by chance?

Have you ever seen the inside of a pocket watch? Very complicated, with all these gears and things inside. Now if you went to a factory where these are made, it had all the parts to make one, and you blew it up, how many working watches would you have? Its simple...none. You could blow it up millions of times and never get a working watch.

the Brahma myth coninsides very nicely with the big bang theory.

I would not worhip brahma but it does coincide with what scientists tell us happened

en.wikipedia.org...

perhaps the reason that we made god to be like a human is because some people cannot grasp wider theories of the creation of the universe?

Wider theories of creation like what?

Look at scientists like Newton, and Einstein, they were able to grasp ideas of science along with believing in a creator.

For starters, great thread, starred and flagged for the idea!

I don't agree with religions, that said, I do believe in a 'God'. What type of God? Well, it ain't a big dude in the sky, but thats all I'll say for now.

I believe most religions in our current world take a good message and use it for bad things, this can range from making themselves richer, or outright slaughtering people (although, that hasn't happened in recent centuries, that we know of...). No matter what way you cut it, the message was not about that, it was about helping your fellow man.

The bible teaches forgiveness, generosity, kindness among other things and regular followers uphold these, or at least try their best to uphold these, afterall, nobodies perfect. Most priests may uphold these, bishops, arch bishops even (although, they do seem to be mighty rich and influential). What about the Vatican, the 'spiritual government', they preach generosity yet it has billions, or maybe even trillions, according to some sources/rumours, yet it is kept for interest and expansion, rather than given out to those who need it.

They preach forgiveness, yet it took them 42 years to 'forgive' John Lennon?!? LMAO. Should forgiveness not be implied by the creed they follow?

The Vatican are not the only ones using religion to manipulate the people and grow fat, just the most prominent in my mind.

After all that, it is mainly because I see most 'organized religion' to be about preservation, rather than sacrifice. I opt for the personal belief system myself, but thats me.

EMM

Originally posted by Shocka
Reply to LucidClouds:

I believe something that I don't feel comfortable explaining here as I will get flamed and because I'm not quite sure if I believe it either, it's just the one thing that makes most sense to me.

I think that religion has been distorted by man throughout the years. It was one thing when ancient people worshiped their "gods" because in reality they were worshiping that which gave them life which was the Earth itself not a divine being per say.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by Shocka]

Well I would be very interested in hearing it. Maybe you can u2u it.

I agree that religion has been distorted. Almost every so called christian organization in the world doesn't teach what the Bible says.

But people worship, whatever it might be, because they have some sort of spiritual need.

reply to post by lucidclouds


Very interesting question...how do we think we got here.


Well, for starters, its been proven of the big bang, simply because it has been proven that the universe is expanding, and continues to expand every single second that ticks by.

Perhaps we did come from the dirt, considering how dirty some people's minds are. We sprang up from raw dirt, formed into a human shape, and then suddenly, out of nowhere, there stands Adam/Adom/ODOM. Oh no, he is lonely, hmm...perhaps the creator didnt think that one single creation could possibly get lonely now would he?.....so the creator puts to sleep the creation, rips a rib...and wala, Eve is standing there in all her naked glory...44 size and all with extra long hair to boot.

Then suddenly, because the creations want to learn, and knowledge is sitting right there next to them, basically a trap, a lure put there by creation, they are cast out. And all of a sudden, the burden of creating the entire human culture and history is left upon 2 individuals who did not have a choice to begin with going through such a rediculous scenario of creation.


I dont know but quite frankly I find that story a bit abusred, and very rediculous. Now if the great creator exsists, why would the creator, who is supposed to be all powerful and almighty, would allow so much suffering by those who have no choice but to suffer in the creator's creation?

Quite a harsh and trap like game....this creator has created....wouldnt you say?? To let young who have no choice but to end up in slums, dumps and go hungry, get killed and wiped out each and every single day, each and every single minute, each and every single second of this creator's creation.

To sum it all up..I think religion is antiquated, a pagan's pillow, an oudated and unecessary road block preventing the entire human race from going where it needs to go, and is abused by powers and condoned by the followers persuaded into thinking that absolute power corrupting absolutely is worthy of worship and diligence.

The only thing religion has done for mankind through mankind's entire history...as we know it....is to cause war, hunger, death, distruction, brother against brother, sister against sister, and bring nation against nation.

And it continues to this day.

I believe that religion is something that should have been thrown out all together the day the monks were throwing out portions of their bible in order to create a book of pre-determined doctrine.

It all should have been thrown out!!


So that is my opinion, and belief. Now if at the snap of a creator's finger, the entire world's mess can get fixed, and it should...or should I say, the creator should, then and only then would I change my mind about it.

But....as the great singer Jim Morrison said in the song "When The Music's Over"......"Were gettin tired..of hanging around".




Cheers!!!!!

Originally posted by RFBurns
reply to post by lucidclouds

 

Very interesting question...how do we think we got here.


Well, for starters, its been proven of the big bang, simply because it has been proven that the universe is expanding, and continues to expand every single second that ticks by.

Perhaps we did come from the dirt, considering how dirty some people's minds are. We sprang up from raw dirt, formed into a human shape, and then suddenly, out of nowhere, there stands Adam/Adom/ODOM. Oh no, he is lonely, hmm...perhaps the creator didnt think that one single creation could possibly get lonely now would he?.....so the creator puts to sleep the creation, rips a rib...and wala, Eve is standing there in all her naked glory...44 size and all with extra long hair to boot.

Then suddenly, because the creations want to learn, and knowledge is sitting right there next to them, basically a trap, a lure put there by creation, they are cast out. And all of a sudden, the burden of creating the entire human culture and history is left upon 2 individuals who did not have a choice to begin with going through such a rediculous scenario of creation.


I dont know but quite frankly I find that story a bit abusred, and very rediculous. Now if the great creator exsists, why would the creator, who is supposed to be all powerful and almighty, would allow so much suffering by those who have no choice but to suffer in the creator's creation?

Quite a harsh and trap like game....this creator has created....wouldnt you say?? To let young who have no choice but to end up in slums, dumps and go hungry, get killed and wiped out each and every single day, each and every single minute, each and every single second of this creator's creation.

To sum it all up..I think religion is antiquated, a pagan's pillow, an oudated and unecessary road block preventing the entire human race from going where it needs to go, and is abused by powers and condoned by the followers persuaded into thinking that absolute power corrupting absolutely is worthy of worship and diligence.

The only thing religion has done for mankind through mankind's entire history...as we know it....is to cause war, hunger, death, distruction, brother against brother, sister against sister, and bring nation against nation.

And it continues to this day.

I believe that religion is something that should have been thrown out all together the day the monks were throwing out portions of their bible in order to create a book of pre-determined doctrine.

It all should have been thrown out!!


So that is my opinion, and belief. Now if at the snap of a creator's finger, the entire world's mess can get fixed, and it should...or should I say, the creator should, then and only then would I change my mind about it.

But....as the great singer Jim Morrison said in the song "When The Music's Over"......"Were gettin tired..of hanging around".




Cheers!!!!!

Nice post.

Now I understand what you are saying about the big bang theory, its just I don't believe it happen by chance. I believe it was controlled.

Now why would God allow suffering? The answer is logical, but it seems you have your mind made up on this subject. So it would be useless to post. Plus i'm sure it would be attacked by some here. Maybe I can u2u you the answer. If you want.

Also do you think there is a possiblity that waiting for everything to change may be too late?

So how do you think we got here?

[edit on 25-11-2008 by lucidclouds]

Originally posted by lucidclouds
But people worship, whatever it might be, because they have some sort of spiritual need.

I think that it's misleading to try and define spirituality through religion. Spirituality is a quality of the soul that can't be defined through words or rules to follow. For instance, have you ever stood on top of a cliff and looked out over the ocean and had that feeling that you are only a small molecule in something much greater than you? Since the beginning of thought we've been trying to define that feeling which gave birth to religion when in truth it's not something that can or should be defined in words that we know.

That's where I think the problem is in religion, when they say there is a god instead of there is God. There's a big difference in these terms.

I understand though how religion is a way to fulfill that need to define spirituality.

I think religion and spirituality are just mislabeled and misunderstood, even by many of their modern day practitioners. To me, my "spiritual" journey has been based on science, and experience. My religion IS, and that is all I can say to define it. Man created languages, and linear language, severely bias the only truth there is by trying to speak about it or confine it within.
Its been obvious to me in my life experience, that at least half of what reality is, is not acknowledged by science as true or real, even though when I work with it, I attain results on both sides, accepted and unaccepted reality. Scientifically, everything is connected to everything else, and everything is really mostly empty space, all having a singular source, so, I just assume that the psyche can navigate infinitely because the only limitation is a perceptual opinion. I fully believe and am fully aware, that the source is all there is, everything else is obviously illusions for the sake of subjective experience, like evolution big bangs planetary movements, synchronistic revelations, and absolute miracles. My religion is something like Buddhism or Hinduism or even taoism, except I stop where labels and images begin, my work and understanding begins with the ineffable void.

My understanding of religions, is, that they are belief systems which allow one to navigate that other half of reality, sadly, one of the most popular ones has lost a lot of its gusto, christianity, now of course gnostic christianity is a completely different story, and even an atheist should be able to reason with a gnostic, as a gnostic would probably explain what religion really is as well.
What Im getting at is, we as humans know we made up our spiritual beliefs, we know they are man made, and we put our energy and belief into them and make them real, granted there is an end to your means and not just stagnant ego displays.
In a nutshell, this is how I see it: Religion used to put magic in the hands of all of its followers, many still do, and when I say magic, I just mean coherent repeatable results from right brain endeavors, like invoking spirits and using them to heal or something of that nature, but when it comes to christianity, its been turned into a cult versus a real working system that helps people to unadulterated absolute understanding. Im not saying fundamental christianity does not work for many, I'm just saying fundamental christianity does not work in the sense of attaining enlightenment, and to me, I think that is the only obvious purpose for all humans, to fully come into understanding and out of any suffering of illusions. The promised land so to speak. Im also not saying that fundamental christianity does not have its fair share of pastors or preachers that truly get it, and can interpret the bible in such a way that the followers are enriched with deep psychological and philisophical reasoning and understanding for what their belief actually is. Like they say, some folks are just blessed to move with spirit.

The mere fact that there are atheists or non believers of the spiritual aspect of existence, just goes to show the efficacy of book burnings and witch trials. All open minds should at least have the feeling that the spiritual aspect is valid. In fact, to me, things spiritual are scientific but specific to the belief system for repeated results, and I cannot understand why there is a term spiritual, it is almost as if the language is designed to disconnect people from it or at least cause them to look at it as separate from the sciences or from working understandings. Its psychological manipulation at its best. What better way to keep all the "magic" to yourself but to make it seem like boobery and burn the evidence of its workings, thus keeping the general public unaware of their own innate nature and birthright.

i am still skeptical if in fact soul exists - is there any proof of that?

we hear a lot about it but i am unconvinced that it really exists or survives death

i know near death experiences and also talking to those who have departed happens, but again - I am unconvinced this is a soul - it may be something altogether different and in time we will prove what it is with scientific methods that dont depend on someone else having the experience and telling me i have to believe because they had an experience and that proves it

if i had an experience then maybe i would believe too but i dont have experiences like that so - what proof is there?

I recently read "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" by Friedrich Nietzsche. What was interesting to me was his idea that religion, Christianity in particular, made virtues out of everything not beneficial to survival. He felt that because of Christianity's roots as a slave religion, ideals such as humility, pity, helping the poor, etc were espoused because they would appeal to the poor and outcast early Christians.
His most controversial statement, "God is dead" in context means that the time for religion and superstition is over, and its now time for mankind to follow science and secularism.



I've always felt religions were just a shoddy attempt at science, trying to explain our surroundings, death, etc. I've always felt it a shame that so many people use God as a copout for violence.