reply to post by Bigwhammy
Another homosexual thread from Big Whammy....how expected
Not so fast
The topic on whether it is sin or not is pure absurdity and I do not need to address
it as 1 Cor 6:9 is explicit. However that out of the way...
! Like a thief in the night you are. Since most of the members here have already called this thread what it is, and most on ATS by
now recognize the wolf underneath the clothing, I am going to be very on topic
and address this 6:9 conspiracy
Here are your words from an another thread, for some perspective:
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor
adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites" (1 Co 6:9)
1 Cor 6:9 is very explicit that homosexuals do not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
If they remain in a gay lifestyle they most likely are not in Christ. - 1 cor 6:9 is very cut and dry.
Very explicit and very cut and dry eh?
...no doubt when you use "translations" dating after the advent of the computer maybe!
...no doubt when you overlook the original Greek words themselves that formed the basis for translation of this passage. When you overlook the fact
that even Christian theologists and historians don't have a consensus on their meanings
! (If you researched you would know this to be true)
...no doubt when you over look that fact the even some modern translations don't say "homosexual", but rather "male prostitute" or
No?... prove it. Which translation did you use, which translation(s) do you always
use for 6:9 Big Whammy?
Let's compare your selective
) modern passage to a more historically accurate one:
First and foremost
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
nor effeminate [malakoi], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [arsenokoitai]"
, none of the three biblical languages contained a word that could be directly translated to "homosexual". Not even during
the times of the KJV translation. Not even until the 19th century. None of them contained a word that described homosexuals, or the homosexual
orientation. The orginal biblical languages only have words describing specific sexual acts
. This is crucial
to understanding the
original contextual meaning.
'Malakoi' and 'Aresenokoitai' got translated into 'Effeminate' and 'Sodomite' respectively. Which later became "homosexual". Obviously since
it was God's spoken Word, written through inspired hands, we should first and foremost hold the original meaning above later translations (in light
of deviations), right?? So let's ommit "homosexual", and "effeminate" and "sodomite", and take a look at those original Greek words;
The word 'arsenokoitai' is believed to have been most likely 'invented' by Paul himself, as the Bible is the first record of the word's use. It
is used only twice in the entire Bible, and both times written by Paul. In fact, this word was pretty much non-existant outside of the Bible in those
'Arseno' translates to 'man/male' and 'koitai' to 'bed or bedder'. That means this word, and subsequently its use in the Bible, only refers to
. Therefore it cannot
be refering to the homosexuals themselves, as women can be homosexual i.e lesbians.
So then what act
does this word refer to? Many biblical sholars and or theologists believe Paul had meant it to *possibly mean this
Pederasty: adult male child molesters (sexual act). Either way, it only refers to a male act
, therefore cannot be refering to homosexuality
itself. Either way, most original translations and interpretations of 'arsenokoitai' have been centered around various sexual deviant acts, and of
men specifically. If you want sources just ask BW
'malakoi' meets the same level of ambiguity and conflict of meaning. Literally translated as "soft". This word is used in Greek litature outside
the Bible, and usually means a general lack of moral strength i.e morally soft, weak. *When Jesus uses this word in the Bible he is refering to
In the context of this passage, many biblical scholars and theologists believe Paul had meant it to mean:
a young male prostitute
. Too morally weak, that he would sucumb to being a sex slave for money. For both men and
women. And again, this
is a sexual act, not an orientation. Whereas others have kept this word to mean a general moral weakness. If you want sources just ask BW
So how then did 'malakoi' and 'arsenokoitai' translate to 'effeminate' and 'sodomite' and then
become modern translations for
"homosexual"?.... they didn't. At all. There was no translation
to begin with. No new linguistic evidence to justify it. The modern versions
of this passage were edited
, with an agenda. One that is quite clear. This passage was not about homosexuality before, so it cannot be about
homosexuality now Big Whammy.
FYI, all of this applies to Timothy 1:10 as well. As that passage is also based on the translation of 'malakoi' and 'arsenokoitai'.
Ultimately, I am just expressing how absolutely absurd your "cut and dry" and "very explicit" talk is
The more you research these 2 words,
the more you will see what I am talking about. I have to include that you either are not aware of the ambiguity behind these Greek words, or you are
aware, and you deliberately ignore it and choose select modern translations to further your anti-gay agenda...
[edit on 24-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]