So many people on both sides of the field on this one. On one side, so many people have vested their faith in the workings of modern science and those whom they deem to 'know better than they.' On the other side, people also have vested their faith perhaps not so much in the workings of modern Science, but in that of ancient civilizations. Neither side is wrong, but both sides are vulnerable to the ultimate effect: the illusion of belief.

Instead of relying on the observations and data of other so called "REAL" scientists, I would ask you to consider your own observations and take into account what your instinct tells you.

Moreover, please stop bringing up the comparative of Y2K, that's inane subject matter. The fact that some people would choose to use the Y2K comparative to 2012 shows an attempt to sate your own paranoia, that or a complete lack of logic.

If you do or don't believe in the comings of 2012, that's fine. But for your own sake, keep an open mind. Arguing for the sake of a dismissive conclusion only shows that you're unlikely to be able to cope with the alternative. Sure, we've lived fine for hundreds of years, but how does that discount the future possibility of cataclysmic events, spiritual/consciousness evolution, or anything else? How can we presume to know so much about the workings of the Cosmos based on our short existence? Just because you can plug in a few search requests into Google, read a few articles by well known and perhaps well-received tenants of Science does not mean you should abandon your ability to challenge modern Science. I believe people have come to a point where they've invested so much of their faith into presumably credible sources. It's easy to research information, it's even remarkably easier to paraphrase it and make it look like you know what you're talking about in order to give credence to the information you're representing. Information/Disinformation comes down to one thing-- whomever or whatever can mash radical numbers with out of this world vocabulary and make anyone (un)informed enough believe it.

Challenging old world ideas has always been the forefront of true Science and evolution. In light of that, I'd ask that each of you to challenge anything and everything based on your own experiences, observations and instinct. Not out of a need or a desire to accredit or discredit something, but to find out what you truly believe.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Nulil]

Originally posted by Nulil

Moreover, please stop bringing up the comparative of Y2K, that's inane subject matter. The fact that some people would choose to use the Y2K comparative to 2012 shows an attempt to sate your own paranoia, that or a complete lack of logic.

Obviously can't touch on everything you posted because it's quite cluttered and hard to break apart so let me touch on the psychology of Y2K.

The psychology of Y2K supported that the world is going to break into catastrophic events because of the date (01/01/01). The psychology of 2012 is very much the same, based on a date (12/21/12).

If you were to read my Original Post you would see a lot of information there which it seems you have skipped over entirely to make your point . I don't blame you because I do this too sometimes. However, have a look there. It is more than a discussion thread as I have posted science.

Additionally, a note to you personally, the Mayan Calender does not end on 2012 . Check out my Original Post.

Originally posted by blowfishdl

Originally posted by Nulil

Moreover, please stop bringing up the comparative of Y2K, that's inane subject matter. The fact that some people would choose to use the Y2K comparative to 2012 shows an attempt to sate your own paranoia, that or a complete lack of logic.

Obviously can't touch on everything you posted because it's quite cluttered and hard to break apart so let me touch on the psychology of Y2K.

The psychology of Y2K supported that the world is going to break into catastrophic events because of the date (01/01/01). The psychology of 2012 is very much the same, based on a date (12/21/12).

If you were to read my Original Post you would see a lot of information there which it seems you have skipped over entirely to make your point . I don't blame you because I do this too sometimes. However, have a look there. It is more than a discussion thread as I have posted science.

Additionally, a note to you personally, the Mayan Calender does not end on 2012 . Check out my Original Post.

I apologize about the lack of paragraph manner. You're mistaken though, of the few posters I paid attention to in this thread, I thought it would be wise to actually read all of your posts, and I did.

I asserted that the Y2K subject matter was inane based on the fact that you cannot rule out that because one event did not take place that another will also not. This is the same comparative analysis that utilizes past precedence to discount future possibilities.

You might want to actually have read my post in entirety. No where in it did I say that the Mayan Calendar ends in 2012. In fact, I intentionally had not made my position clear on it to avoid the issue of having to debate it, because I know that is exactly what these kind of 'debunking' threads turn into.

You've provided a wealth of information that has of course taken a side, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. Many people would argue that the laws and assertions of Science cannot be argued once set in stone. On the contrary however, quantum physicists would argue to say that just because those laws are set in stone doesn't mean they can't be changed. And this is what I'm trying to get at. Instead of lending so much credence to scientific values and research pushed out there by popular tenants of Science, examine history from a sense of self. In a world populated by nearly 7 billion people with nearly 7 billion different perspectives, it's important to realize that how we choose to interpret information and past events is important in that it decides how we choose to react to (hearing of) similar events in the future.

Logic and reason is integral to the basic interpretations of Science, however in the field of science, what often cannot be explained is not presented at all. So when "Scientists" feed people information, they're feeding them information largely based on what they have successfully been able to interpret.

It's easy to present complex information that by all logical concerns, requirements are met and a theory is attached. For many people who concern themselves with a simpler approach, that being going to other well known sources, this spreads the diseased illusion of science, that what is concluded as strong science cannot be argued upon. This is what in people's minds forbids them from often challenging the information provided to them.

So, that being said, I'm not challenging you to redress your conclusions, only to approach them from a sense of you, not through peddling information that supports your assertions. If you can come to the same conclusions as you started this thread with after discounting the effects of "scientific data," then I've done exactly what I sought out to do, to propose that you examine it not from a field of widely-accepted Science, but by examining it through your own constitution.

Who says that Nibiru is the correct prediction of what will happen in 2012? It's just another guess.

I have given my oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. I intend to fulfill that oath.. 2012.. as most people I laughed it off as only another possible y2k scare...even the planetary alignment scare.. Well.. Sumerians wrote of Nibiru... Mayan ... the Red star and the 7 mountains.. The Kolbrin Bible the Rosetta Stone of Planet X!" . These prescient accounts of the Egyptian and Celtic authors clearly describe a brown dwarf. Well is it really out there....Where is the evidence..

By Thomas O'Toole, Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 30, 1983 ; Page A1
Possibly as Large as Jupiter;
Mystery Heavenly Body Discovered
The correct figure is 50 billion miles. It also might be a Jupiter-like star that started out to become a star eons ago but never got hot enough like the sun to become a star. which is so cold it casts no light so close to the sun it would be part of the solar system....there was some speculation that it might be moving toward Earth Cal Tech's Neugebauer said. "I want to douse that idea with as much cold water as I can." ...."All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is," Dr. Gerry Neugebauer, IRAS chief scientist for California's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and director of the Palomar Observatory for the California Institute of Technology, said in an interview.

NASA BAFFLED BY UNEXPLAINED FORCE ACTING ON PROBES

The New York Times
Sunday, January 30, 1983
Clues Get Warm in the Search for Planet X
John Noble Wilford
Something out there beyond the farthest reaches of the known solar system seems to be tugging at Uranus and Neptune. Some gravitational force keeps perturbing the two giant planets, causing irregularities in their orbits. The force suggests a presence far away and unseen, a large object that may be the long-sought Planet X.
Evidence assembled in recent years has led several groups of astronomers to renew the search for the 10th planet. They are devoting more time to visual observations with the 200-inch telescope at Mount Palomar in California. They are tracking two Pioneer spacecraft, now approaching the orbit of distant Pluto, to see if variations in their trajectories provide clues to the source of the mysterious force. And they are hoping that a satellite-borne telescope launched last week will detect heat “signatures” from the planet, or whatever it is out there. The Infrared Astronomical Satellite was boosted into a 560-mile-high polar orbit Tuesday night from Vandenberg Air Force Base, CA. It represents an $80-million venture by the United States, Britain and the Netherlands. In the next six or seven months, the telescope is expected to conduct a wide-ranging survey of nearly all the sky, detecting sources not of ordinary light, but of infrared radiation, which is invisible to the human eye and largely absorbed by the atmosphere. Scientists thus hope that the new telescope will chart thousands or infrared-emitting objects that have gone undetected – stars, interstellar clouds, asteroids and, with any luck, the object that pulls at Uranus and Neptune.

John P. Bagby has now introduced a new piece to the puzzle of solar-system cyclic behavior. While searching for possible perturbations of the planets due to a tenth major planet or a dark massive solar companion (MSC), he discovered that the perihelia of the outer planets (orbital points closest to the sun) were being disturbed with an average period of 11.2 years. This is almost exactly the sunspot period of about 11 years ( or half the period of solar magnetic field reversals of about 22 years). He suggests two possibilities:
(1) Mutual resonance effects between the planets
(2) The effects of a massive solar companion.
...If this Dwarf Star is coming .. reports on the net say it will be as close as Mars in June 2012 .. and will be south of the sun .. moving toward north as it finishes its orbit in December 21 2012 .. to then again continue it’s roughly 4970 year orbit around the sun... its gravitational force could reach as far as Jupiter.. and when it is as close as Mars or possibly In 2011 we will see it and know it is there. Would make since it being a star would also align with the galactic center of the galaxy. The Chandler wobble is a small motion in the Earth's axis of rotation coincided with the galactic alignment with the galaxy roughly every 26 thousand years. Our Solar System orbit’s the black hole of our galaxy roughly every 26000 years as well ends in 2012. The Dark Plane a line running more or less through the center of the Milky Way Galaxy the Densest Portion of the spiral arm. Our solar system moves through this region periodically over a great time span. This region is heavily packed with stars, especially those that go supernova, Type II. Type I Supernova are observed in all galaxies. But type II are limited to the very "dense or star-packed regions of the arms of the spiral galaxies, such as our Milky Way. Because type II supernovae are so violently explosive, they present a grave and severe threat to every star system close to them. This motion has brought us into one of the most dangerous supernova-producing regions of our entire galaxy." We are now approaching this area. The gravitation field of the Galactic Plane can cause solar-like winds to behave like steering currents on comets and other objects . The Earth has been pounded in the past, The very sparse, hot gas of the Local Bubble is the result of supernovae that exploded within the past two to four million years Thirty-four thousand years ago (34,000), the second part of a supernova explosion, the shock wave portion, hit the earth. The first shock wave comparatively did not disturb the Earth– It was rather unnoticed. Nothing happened, such that the inhabitants of the Earth would have become alarmed. Nothing heavy plummeted to the planet. They may have noticed a large array of ‘shooting' stars coming into the high, rarefied air. This cosmic castoff from the supernova with cosmic substances in the cosmos were pushed onto Earth. Evidence of remains of dust left behind from event was picked up 1992 by Eleusis space craft interstellar origin Micro meteorites coming from outside solar system They were caused by ions and small particles, all heavily laced with near to microscopic iron. Signs of evidence inside ice sheets over 35 thousand to 72 thousand years old Zodiacal belt shows Evidence of remains of dust left behind from event These toxic radioactive particles would later cause havoc. Man, animals, and plants suffered with radiation sickness. Mutations occurred. Tests of archeological finds show that man then had one blood type: O, some 100,000 to 40,000 years hence. After the supernova influence, humans started showing up with blood types A and B; and O continue to express itself also. Blood types A or B did not exist thousands of years ago. According to some scientists, if we possess those blood types, we are "blood brothers/sisters" to a supernova in the not too distant past. God moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform. . Some have even claimed to find evidence of periodic mass extinctions that might be explained by a single (as-yet-unidentified) star in an elliptical orbit around the sun. A diagram appeared in the 1987 edition of the "New Science and Invention Encyclopedia", published by H.S. Stuttman, Westport, Connecticut, USA. The article was discussing the purpose of the Pioneer 10 & 11 space probes. Clearly shown is "Nemesis", a popular name for our sun's binary companion, a dead star. (Binary solar systems are apparently the rule in our galaxy, not the exception.) The solar system may not be a nice round shape, but rather a bit squashed and oblong, according to data from the Voyager 2 spacecraft exploring the solar system's outer limits, scientists said. Walter Cruttenden of the Binary Research Institute is that local gases are fairly uniform and the shape derives from the trajectory of the solar system through local space -- possibly in its orbit around a companion star. This binary companion would cause the sun's orbit to curve, and would explain the Precession of the Equinox by the way in which the Earth's rotation was affected by not one, but two stars. Yes, that’s right, if the data is correct our solar system is curving through space (carrying the earth and spacecraft with it of course) so rapidly that the only way to explain it is if our sun is gravitationally bound to another nearby star. Every Myth .. has a hidden truth behind it....It was recently reported by NewScientist that Gravity Probe B received an “F” from the U.S. Government and the project would receive no more funding. But after netting out the spacecraft and earth orbit motions the remaining signal was far larger than anyone expected. In fact, it is so large it either means there is some unforeseen problem with the gyros or that our sun is part of a binary star system. The Rich like Bill Gates .. seems to believe there is something to worry about when it comes to.. his building of the Dooms Day Seed Vault “ Norway's ark-Doomsday CNN- 2012 Planet X ?”
The biggest problem is life is full of surprises like the Web Bot Project computer oracle program predicts a major event in 2012. As you read this, several planets are experiencing global warming. Saturn, for instance, has changed 30 percent. If this had occurred on the Earth, all life as we know it would be gone.
Seems allot is to unfold in the next few years for mankind...the Spiritual enlightenment to come is to begin at the end of 2011... in the Maya Calendar very good subject...DNA activation .. All these events are to take place in the coming years seems to be all connected in some way... .. "COME and SEE"