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Can NASA Really Send A Radio Or TV Signal From The Moon ?

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posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 02:45 PM
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Let me correct you, Dish size has to do with GAIN. The larger the dish the more gain, which means you can recieve a weaker signal clearer on a 10 ft dish as apposed to a 7 ft dish. there is no way you can adjust the sensitivity on a 7 ft dish to recieve the same clarity as you get on a 10 ft dish. If what you are saying is true there would be no need for a fifty foot dish, for you would be able to fine tune the 7 footer. Most broadcasters use uplink dishs that are anywhere from 30 to 60 ft. in diameter. Why would they use such large dishs if it was not necessary to recieve the same signal. The FACT that they use large dishs clearly show that it is necessary to recieve distant signals that cannot be recieved on smaller dishs. I am not sure where you get your information from but it is not correct and can easily be proved to be incorrect.




posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 02:47 PM
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Here is a decent 'All In One' reply that should explain the rest of your questions both in 'Written' and 'Visual' form. It will require some study and logical deduction of the material on your own to some degree for complete understanding. That will be the best in the end though and will save me a whole lot of extra typing too!!

If a wave is passing by a point the wavelength is the distance between peaks in the wave, i.e. the distance from crest to crest. The frequency is the time interval between passing peaks. Therefore as the wavelength increases, the frequency decreases (and vice-versa).

ElectroMagnetic Wave


Frequency = Speed of Light / Wavelength (Hz or Cycles per Second are the basic unit of Frequency)

Wavelength = Speed of Light / Frequency (Micron is the basic unit for measuring the wavelength)


ElectroMagnetic Spectrum & Frequency


Example of Radio Wave Transmission Properties
Radio waves are used to transmit radio and television signals. Radio waves have wavelengths that range from less than a centimeter to tens or even hundreds of meters. FM radio waves are shorter than AM radio waves. For example, an FM radio station at 100 on the radio dial (100 megahertz) would have a wavelength of about three meters. An AM station at 750 on the dial (750 kilohertz) uses a wavelength of about 400 meters.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet Most broadcasters use uplink dishs that are anywhere from 30 to 60 ft. in diameter. Why would they use such large dishs if it was not necessary to recieve the same signal.
Because they are transmitting and using a high-efficiency antenna for a powerful signal to the smaller low-efficiency antenna on the satellite. I thought you claimed to know this? You continue to demonstrate your lack of knowledge.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Genya
Please have a look at "Moonbounce" - or EME (Earth-Moon-Earth Communication) here

Essentially, radio amateurs use the Moon to "bounce" signals off it. And if *they* can do it....


Here is an example of an *amateur* EME station. BIG, yes, but one that works....





posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 03:12 PM
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If you go to any cable broadcasting company you will find Large dishs, some 30, 40, 50 ft. in diameter that are used for recieving satellite signals. I worked for a broadcaster so I know this to be a fact. Find me "ONE" broadcaster anywhere in the world that uses small dishs ( anything under 30 ft. in diameter) for uplinks and I will buy your arguement. I can give you a list of many broadcasters that use large dishs to transmit signals. I doubt if you can find "ONE" broadcaster that uses small dishs to transmit satellite signals. This clearly shows that large dishs are used to send distant signals, contrary to your misinformation. If I am wrong tell me who uses small dishs for uplinks. So if the satellites sit at 23,000 miles above the earth and the moon is 10 times further away at approx. 250,000 miles how do they send a signal ? not any of you have addressed this but only avoid it by bringing up other subjects that don't relate to transmitting signals 250,000 miles to the moon.

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by Lastday Prophet]



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 03:20 PM
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We seem to be talking about the same subject, but from differnet perspectives. Atleast that is how it seems to me, which is why this is not working.

You are talking about Actual Disk Hardware Recpetion or something like that. Am I right??

I'm talking about the Physics and Basic Understanding of Wave Transmission at the basic level of how the Energy is traveling.

You're asking about the transmission of an Electromagnetic Signal through Space and how it cannot be done, right??? I don't understand what you're having trouble with. If it's about the physical Dish and how it recieves a signal, or not, I think you're trying to troubleshoot it from the wrong end.

You may know a lot about Dish Hardware, I can't say either way, since I'm viewing this from the side that is dealing with the physics behind signal transmission at the most fundimental level. It's almost like youi're saying that it can't be done cause you're trying to figure out why or how they would communicate using a couple of 'Rabbit Ears' on each end or something. I don't think you're viewing this problem correctly.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 03:25 PM
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LastDayProphet at work again!






A Radio Transmitter putting out 1 WATT of power can virtually go round the world. FM broadcasts in MHZ, and AM in KHZ. The reason you can't hear an FM station beyond their transmitting range is because it is controlled. AM is a bit different, as you can hear radio stations( on a clear winter night) from across the country. And even Shortwave, operating underneath the AM frequencies, is heard worldwide.

And you can't get that a satellite can send images or sounds a few million miles??



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 03:33 PM
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Let me try to put this as simple as possible. Radio and Television signals do not go on endlessly, they have a limit. This limit is defined by the technology used. Satellites are the most advanced form of sending and recieving these signals. Therefore if it is necessary to use a 50 ft dish to recieve or transmit a signal from the Soviet Union, you would need a dish much larger to send or recieve a signal from the moon. It's simple math, don't need a rocket scientist to figure that out unless you are only trying to mislead. The facts are clear and undeniable. Where is the dish located on the moon and what size is it ?



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet Radio and Television signals do not go on endlessly, they have a limit. This limit is defined by the technology used.
Incorrect. The limit is defined by the obsticles in the path of the signals.

Satellites are the most advanced form of sending and recieving these signals.
Incorrect. Satellites can do many things, repeating radio signals is just one thing they might do.

Therefore if it is necessary to use a 50 ft dish to recieve or transmit a signal from the Soviet Union, you would need a dish much larger to send or recieve a signal from the moon.
Incorrect assumption based on flawed data. You can converse over radio waves with Russia (there is no Soviet Union any more) using a wire and 1 watt.

The facts are clear and undeniable.
Indeed. Why do you ignore them... or refuse to research them on your own rather than pester us with your flawed logic and science?



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 04:59 PM
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You are the one incorrect. Firstly if you would have taken the time to read the post you would see that we already addressed the obstacle issue, it is called LOS line of sight. so you can throw that garbage out, we have already taken into consideration a clear line of sight. Second, tell us what equipment you can use to recieve a 1 watt transmission from Russia, its a lie, no such equipment exsist. Third, the moon is approx. 250,000 miles away and no radio signal can be transmitted that distance, if it can be tell us what technology is used. All these diversions further prove my point. Just a bunch of misinformation on your behalf, no proof whatsoever. Anyone can go to any nearby cable broadcasting facility and see for themselves that they use large dishs to recieve signals. I would think that the reason that small dishs are not used is because they are unable to recieve these signals. These FACTS are easy to prove, just go and see for yourself what size dishs are used for broadcasting at cable companies and uplink broadcast facilities.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet Second, tell us what equipment you can use to recieve a 1 watt transmission from Russia, its a lie, no such equipment exsist.
In Ham Radio, QRP is the "Q" code for low power: www.angelfire.com... I've used the equipment on that page for world-wide communications under 1-watt. Do a Goolgle on QRP and ham radio... lots of info out there.

Third, the moon is approx. 250,000 miles away and no radio signal can be transmitted that distance,
You sir are being extremely foolish in your refusal to listen to the logic of those who have experienced that which you argue (illogically) against. [Edited on 2-4-2004 by SkepticOverlord]



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 06:00 PM
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Something missing here is for the signal to deteriorate it must come up against some form of resistance and is space not a vaccuum?The lem would transmit to the orbiter which then boosts the signal and beams to satellite which then beams to earth.The other thing that comes to mind is the difference between analog and digital and telemetry.
With the big dish small dish argument if not for the fact the signal from the newer sats is digital there would be no small dishes.Yes many of the providers use buds to receive from sources which some are still analog then digitize and boost so that we can use smaller dishes.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 06:41 PM
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" You sir are being extremely foolish in your refusal to listen to the logic of those who have experienced that which you argue (illogically) against.

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by SkepticOverlord] "
you are the one being foolish, I am more experienced with satellite technology than any person on this site. And you have yet to tell me how they transmit a signal from the moon, you continually avoid answering this which proves you have no answer or you would have posted it.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 06:59 PM
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Haven't had time to read this just yet. Just skimmed it, but looks like what you've been searching for. Hopefully this will make you happy happy!

Earth-Moon Communication from a Moving Lunar

Carnegie Mellon University has proposed an educational- and entertainment-based robotic lunar missionwhich will last two years and cover 1000km on the moon and revisit several historic sites. With thetransmission of live panoramic video, participants will be provided the opportunity for interactivelyexploring the moon through teleoperation and telepresence. The requirement of panoramic video andtelepresence demands high data rates on the order of 7.5 Mbps. This is challenging since the poweravailable for communication is approximately 100W and occupied bandwidth is limited to less than 10MHz. The tough environment on the moon introduces additional challenges of survivability and reliability.A communication system based on a phased array antenna, Nyquist QPSK modulation and a rate 2/3 Turbocode is presented which can satisfy requirements of continuous high data rate communication at low powerand bandwidth reliably over a two year mission duration. Three ground stations with 22m parabolicantennas are required around the world to maintain continuous communication. The transmission will thenbe relayed via satellite to the current control station location. This paper presents an overview of themission, and communication requirements and design.

PDF
www.metahuman.org...

HTML
64.233.167.104...:uZQMY1gpwLQJ:www.metahuman.org/martin/papers/EarthMoonCommunicationFromAMovingLunarRoverBapnaMartin.pdf

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by mOjOm]



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 07:21 PM
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moon bouncing, I was doing that 20 years ago with a friend of mine, was a way to transmit around the world, without Ionosphere issues.

So lets summarize, "yes you can transmit a signal from the moon with no major issues, except the earth rotation". Then I would send the signal to a stationary Satellite, viola!!!!

BTW, looking for a good antenna design to send my home wireless network signal to a receiver at my marina about a mile away, where my boat is...



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
I have often wondered if it is really possible to send a radio or video signal from the moon. I don't think so and here is why. Firstly, to my understanding the most advanced technology currently being used to send radio and video signals is satellite technology. According to what they tell us most satelites sit in the clark arc which is said to be 23,000 miles above the earth, I am more inclined to beleive that their actually orbit is closer to 300 miles above the earth. It is said that their is a radiation belt that exsist at about 300 miles above the earth and that no aircraft has exceeded that height. For the sake of arguement I will use the 23,000 mile figure and I think even at that I can still prove my point. These are facts, in order to send a radio or tv signal from the Soviet Union to the United States you need a 50 foot satellite dish to uplink the signal from the Soviet Union to the satellite located at 23,000 miles up and you would need a satellite dish 50 foot in the USA to recieve it down from the satellite. The Moon is approx. 250,000 miles from the earth, which means that you would need a satellite dish at least 500 ft. in diameter on the moon and one 500 ft. in diameter on the earth. I have not read, seen or heard of any such satellite dishs, because they don't exsist. So how then do they send a signal ? they don't. Someone said that they link satellites together in a row, the only problem with this theory is that if just one of the satellites linked together malfunctioned the whole link would go down with no way of recovery. Radio and Television signals do not go on endlessly, as we have been brainwashed to think, they have limited range. So tell me, how is it done ?

Well first of all theres no more Soviet Union it broke up. And second of all there are government projects we dont know about. They do have satellites, and dishes or whatever that could send long range signals. They have developed a lot more new and advanced kinds of satellites since Sputnik.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet you are the one being foolish, I am more experienced with satellite technology than any person on this site.
I highly doubt it. Tell me, if you're so experienced with "satellite technology", what means is used to maintain alignment? Anyway... a member has offered information on EME (earth-moon-earth) bouncing used by Ham radio operators since the 1950's (I did it). You're refusing to listen to reason.... and embracing ignorance.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 07:43 PM
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This is what i dont get about these "questions". You ask the question, someone gives you the answer. You claim to know more than anyone on the site. Why ask the question if you know?



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
you are the one being foolish, I am more experienced with satellite technology than any person on this site.


Having satellite TV does not make you an expert on satellites.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Kano

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
you are the one being foolish, I am more experienced with satellite technology than any person on this site.


Having satellite TV does not make you an expert on satellites.


No no no, he works at Radio Shack, selling Dish Network stuff! Working at Radio Shack would explain his poor spelling and his insistance he knows more then all of us.



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