F-22 fleet to be split in two, page 1

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Topic started on 22-11-2008 @ 11:45 AM by Zaphod58

I was reading a Flight blog today, and Pentagon acquisition chief John Young let something rather interesting slip about the F-22 fleet. They're going to split them into two distinct forces, with significant differences in abilities.

Starting in 2009, they're going to see Increment 3.1 produced. They'll end up with about 100 aircraft that fall into Increment 2 and 3.1 Increment 3.1 gives them the ground radar mapping mode, which will allow them greater accuracy in using the SDB, and clears them to use it.

Increment 3.2 (80 aircraft) will give them the multifunction data link, AIM-9X, and AIM-120D. The new data link will replace the Raptor-to-Raptor data link with one that will talk to the B-2 and F-35. There is talk that hasn't been confirmed that it will also add a helmet mounted site, and possibly a data link that will talk to other fighters.

The next step after this, will give them Increment 3.3, which adds electronic warfare to their bag of tricks.

I think there have been some comments today with raising concerns about the department's support for F-22. It may be a finer degree of detail. You're dealing with a very appropriate and high- level picture.

But the department was on a path in the '09 budget to have 100 Increment 2 and Increment 3.1 jets, and then a smaller fleet of about 80 3.2 jets -- significant differences in capability.

Source

reply posted on 22-11-2008 @ 02:08 PM by 121200

WOW the AIM-120D WHAT'S THE SPEC ON THAT THING?

reply posted on 22-11-2008 @ 10:17 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by 121200

It's using a new seeker, so it's less dependant on the radar from the launch platform. It also has a 50% greater range than the current AIM-120C-7.

The AIM-120D (P3I Phase 4, formerly known as AIM-120C-8) is a development of the AIM-120C with a two-way data link, more accurate navigation using a GPS-enhanced IMU, an expanded no-escape envelope, improved HOBS (High-Angle Off-Boresight) capability, and a 50% increase in range. The AIM-120D is a joint USAF/USN project, and is currently in the testing phase. First production deliveries are expected for December 2007. The CATM-120D is the inert captive-carry training version of the AIM-120D.

www.designation-systems.net...

reply posted on 22-11-2008 @ 10:30 PM by WestPoint23

reply to post by Zaphod58

That wording leads me to believe that they are simply upgrading the fleet at different paces, rather than the entire PMAI at the latest increment, all at once. I guess for the near term it makes some sense, although in an ideal world you would like to see the entire fleet be at the same level. I'm thinking the "front line" expeditionary squadrons will receive the latest upgrades. Still though, unless the USAF gets its 381 the entire current Raptor fleet, due to its size, can be considered expeditionary.

reply posted on 22-11-2008 @ 10:51 PM by Zaphod58

reply to post by WestPoint23

Actually, it sounds to me like they're going to have two separate forces. One that will be a multi-role force, and one that's air superiority. Personally I think that would be the smart way to do it.

reply posted on 22-11-2008 @ 11:02 PM by Daedalus3

But geographic operational deployment would still have to be uniform across all 'variants' right?
Because the only drawback IMO, is the loss in flexibility for the chess players in moving sizable numbers of a capability (here variant) across multiple theaters in a multi-front and far flung conflict.
When capabilities are uniform across the fleet, then that flexibility is very high. I guess this kind of ties into what wstpt was saying, but in a different way.

If this a way to cut down on costs, while still trying to hit that 'required' Raptor fleet number, then yea... sounds like a plan..

reply posted on 22-11-2008 @ 11:09 PM by WestPoint23

reply to post by Zaphod58

I don't see it that way, that would require more than just budget difficulties forcing you to upgrade only half the fleet with the latest increment. Currently F-22 pilots are being trained for air to air and DEAD, that's it. Unless that changes it's nothing more than budget issues forcing two different models. Until they can both be brought up to standard, presumably.

reply posted on 23-11-2008 @ 01:03 AM by C0bzz

WASHINGTON, Nov 20 (Reuters) - The U.S. Air Force fleet of F-22 Raptors, designed to be the world's top fighter jet, needs more than $8 billion dollars of upgrades to be made "capable and affordable to operate," the Pentagon's top arms buyer said on Thursday.

Young said the Air Force already had budgeted about $8.3 billion for software upgrades and unspecified modifications to about 100 of the F-22s that would otherwise "kind of be lesser models."

In addition, the F-22's "mission capable rate," a measure of its readiness, fell in the 62 percent range in the 2008 fiscal year, Young said.

"I think that's troubling," he went on, adding the fighter, which features advanced technology to reduce detection by radar, "is proving very expensive to operate."

"As a rule of thumb, however, 62 percent is unsatisfactory," he said.

Young said there were also struggles with low-observability and other issues that he did not name.

The F-22 had failed to meet most of its "key performance parameters" in operational tests last year and the trend was negative. Maintenance manpower hours per flying hour had gone up since previous tests, with the last one a "substantial" increase, he said.

Lockheed Martin, which has delivered 131 F-22s to the Air Force, declined to comment on Young's remarks, referring calls to the Air Force, which did not immediately respond.

www.reuters.com...