Originally posted by RRconservative
Last week when I saw the raging fires, I actually yelled at the TV coverage screaming "Cut the trees down before they burn!"

I think your logic might be slightly flawed on this one... I compared that statement to someone arguing the brain is the real problem in brain cancer... don't bother going after the cancer, just cut everyone's brain out, it'll never happen again.

The trees aren't the cause of wildfires, the fire is. It's the trees we're trying to save from the fire. So... stop saving the trees from the fire, just eliminate them so we have nothing to protect?

No, trees are kind of a vital part of being able to breathe. I happen to enjoy breathing.


As for Bush's policies... at least his war on education, nature, and civil rights is going well.

Oh yes pollution that beautiful brown and yellow haze . Sunsets threw the haze make for a nice yellow glow in the evening .

And that wonderful smell of natural gas and crude oil when you step out on your front porch. And the rhythmic thump of pump jacks (well pumping device )

I didnt really like looking at any of those mountain ranges 30 miles from town any how . And those bluffs south of town less than 5 mile away always in a deep haze they were just a eye sore any how . Some days 8 blocks of distance away gets hazy .

Sound like LA, Chicago or New York ? NO

A small town in the west less than 70.000 people the whole county has 150,000 people in a county 85 X 100 miles in New Mexico population density is sparse .

About 10 years ago you could see those ranges we had a visibility of 100 + miles clean air . The only time you smelled crude oil or natural gas is when you were near a location .

We have oil and gas wells and coal fired electric plants with more units put online and expansion in the oil patch . We just reached EPA Ozone restrictions due to the high ozone . We added 25,000 people in 10 years and about every half a mile is a gas or oil well where before it was 5 miles between them. And plans for another coal fired power plant .

Many people here joke we are a national ecological sacrifice area to the GOD of energy .

This has happened in 10 years with environmental controls it scares me to see whats going to happen with out tight controls . You want more coal fired plants you come live with them for a while or put them in your back yard . Let a oil company drill literally in your back yard . There are now 5 with in 1/2 mile of home one is a few yards off the back fence .

Please clean them up we need the energy but not the destruction of our air and our environment whats the use of energy if we cant breath or see any of our beautiful American west .

With all this open spaces and sun on average of 300 days a year why not put some solar or wind power up ?

the retardation of some people astound me.

i hope you all get what you want, devastated forests, dead zones in all waters surrounding the US, toxic waste in your water and acres and acres of strip mined lands to gaze at in beauty

people place the term tree hugger on the same plane as communist or nazi like its something to be ashamed of.

i love people.

I'm still astonished, that people still, are defending Bush and his administration. In the last 8 years, he has brought 2008(right now) backwards in everyway possible and much worse than anytime before his predisency if that makes sense, however you look at it. There is no progression, completion, achievement, success and satisfaction to look back on.

Does greed be the greatest of achievement for one man? is it that outlandish? Is greed the ultimate goal? Does it hold true power? Does it represent humanity? When other's suffer over greed, do we feel truly better?

The Bush administration, do they represent greed, why would one, defend the greed of another?

Like what does it take to be against Bush and his administration these days if a crumbling economy isn't enough to convince your mind or YOU losing your money out of your pocket's. Nobody feels geniuinely optimistic or happy right now. I don't think the people denying these feelings, truly think they are happy either. Government's have taken the extreme case, went as far as they could with corruption, to every chance they took, brought as much terror and fear, that no "terrorist" could have achieved and now we are here to suffer the consquences of it all, and now face a global meltdown.

DO SOME PEOPLE NOT OPEN THEIR EYES AND SEE THE WORLD RIGHT NOW?
DO PEOPLE REFLECT?
DO PEOPLE QUESTIONS WHAT ACTUALLY GOING ON AROUND THEM?
DO PEOPLE EVER DICERN TO WHATS GOING ON RIGHT NOW?
DO PEOPLE EVER WONDER WHATS HAPPENING TO THEM IN THIS MOMENT
DO PEOPLE EVER WONDER WHAT THEIR THOUGHTS REFLECT
DO PEOPLE EVER WONDER WHAT THEY DO TO OTHERS
AND DO PEOPLE EVER WONDER WHAT THEY DO TO YOU?


There are still million's of American's that still need to wake the f*** up. The world has reached rock bottom! People are are feeling the pinch, but why are some being ignorant of this. Why are pretend it's not reality?I want to know why?

This madness,
Is all because of "greed of one over others". Just this time, greed has taken complete control to the point, the rest of the world is suffering the brunt of these actions, the ill demands of the riches of this planet over the pure and innocent. The ripple effect has just got so deep. Now we are feeling the waves. Back to the same problem we've had throughout history. Are we going to learn this time around, who knows? But the reality is now, are we going to change for the better?

There is alot wrong with this world. We can't fix it all obviously. But It needs change, and it needs change NOW. We need to get back on our feet and take responsibity for what we do to ourselves and what we do to other's. Each of us, create the reality we live in the present moment. Do we want this greed and war?


The extremity of the last 8 years is just disgusting.
In my life, time, I've witnessed over a million Iraqs killed, and thousands more in other countries because of the Bush administration. There were no terrorist's. They were the CIA trained terrorists, nothing else. they were no bad guys. The only bad guys are the one sitting in the Whitehouse. The only interest's they have, is for themselves and to hell with the innocent's that died over the eight years. To hell with the rest of the world, to hell with the poor, to hell with the clean air, to hell with the environment, to hell with our neighbouring countries and the last thing they would say, to hell with you.


It's painfully horrid. It's absurd, and right now, I feel ashamed to be a human being. The world has turned upside down and it's a long time coming. All because of ego and greed.


NOW the rest of the ignorant ones, better want to wake up to that fact


But on a positive note I'm sitting here and glad to say the illuminati, "powers of be" and federal reserves etc are also crumbling, just as I predicted they would

I mean without us and our lives, they are nothing, they are everything they are today, because of those who gave their power to them. Just a bit of wisdom to those who are wailing with their gold and oil right now, You might learn hidden meaning in that. Right now, what are you going to do, when you have all that money and riches? What would you do if your George Bush senior with all his money if the rest of humanity was perished, would all that greed further your life accomplishment's when no one else is around for all this you have? Sitting in your Sprawling mansion smoking a cigar, all that riches, and others are gone for it? Is this life today? Our goal to be rich and shallow, and for what?

what would you do with this material wealth, when you leave this world where will you take it?..............

Wake up world.



[edit on 22-11-2008 by mind is the universe]

[edit on 22-11-2008 by mind is the universe]

Arguing, Internet, Special Olympics, etc....

So which is it, guys? Do 'The Powers that Be' (ooh, scary name..) want to destroy our environment or kill billions of people to preserve the forests, Codex Alimentarius style? Whichever happens to be the fearmongering flavor of the month, I guess.

Josbecky is a true believer marg... you are not going to change his mind even if you duct tape his forehead with all the statistics and data in the world... its a kind of blindness.

The thing is that you can have growth for growth's sake with little regard of the consequences or you can have intelligent growth.

Having little regard for the consequences, be they environmental, or cultural is the path of quick and easy profits but it lacks social responsibility... but intelligent growth is a growth approach that by its very nature looks at the long haul.

I personally would put my money on intelligent growth any day.

The thing is that we as a nation are not just an aggregate of business concerns but a society composed of individuals... if we want to see what results growth with no concern for the outcome looks like and what an impact it has on society... just look at the nations of the former soviet bloc or China today.

Who wants to live in an industrial wasteland?

[edit on 22-11-2008 by grover]

I am sorry Josbecky but that is incredibly naive.

Look at nuclear power as an example. If we had listened to the alarmists, we would never have known the true capabilities of that science.

Today, mini-reactors power submarines and are planned for growth of underdeveloped nations.

Originally posted by grover
I am sorry Josbecky but that is incredibly naive.

You sound like a reactionary, grover. One of the old time witch doctors that frightened people around the campfire.

You can either work with us, and help us progress, or stay stuck in the past. You will lose, if the latter is your choice.

I thought liberals called themselves "progressive"??!!

As I said in another thread.

You know, I don't care what Bush and Company do as long as the lights turn on, I have gas for my car, money in the bank and food on the table. We don't need to hug the rest of the world or sing kumbaya.

I think if you ask most people they would feel that way. Ask them to give up their cars, lights, tv, iphone, ipod, sat dish, make a lower wage, etc just so someone else in the world can have it better and they would tell you not only no but hell no. They would say the government can help feed the rest of the world as long as I have my toys.

Why don't we all chillout for a while and go hunting
with Sarah Palin. I here the moosies are biting.