Obese have right to 2 airline seats: Canada court, page 16

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reply posted on 27-11-2008 @ 06:46 AM by RogerT

Originally posted by Flighty

I wasn't trying to cloud the issue.
Did you read the links? Probably not eh.

Besides, this whole thread has been about obesity, so I fail to see how highlighting other issues that can cause obesity as well, is clouding the issue.

I read the excerpts, not the entire articles, which is why I highlighted the words propensity and promote, which does not mean 'cause'.

As for the washington post claiming that kids with a normal diet and regular exercise are becoming obese, my question would be 'what is considered a normal diet?'

It is quite normal to receive a portion in a US restaurant which is at least 3 times the size of a regular portion in virtually any other country (with a few exceptions). The Big Gulp is uniquely American.

Or perhaps they are referring to the kids version of SAD, which is indeed pretty sad.

No doubt regular exercise refers to at least 2 hours per day of xbox or playstation

It has become 'normal' in the US and the UK and many other 'advanced' nations, to be overweight or just plain fat, so a comment like this is unsurprising. Those with a body fat of 10-15% are the ones now considered weird.

The posts in the thread keep reminding me of the movie Wall E and the inhabitants of the Axiom - lol.

edit to add:

Oops, it was the daily mail not the washington post, my mistake. Still think the post stands though.

Seriously though, there are obviously a great deal of factors that contribute towards weight gain and weight loss, does anybody dispute that?!

What is being disputed is the premise that fat people are helpless victims and require preferential treatment as disabled individuals at the expense of the non-fat.

ciao.

[edit on 27/11/08 by RogerT]

reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 12:01 AM by VelmaLu

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by VelmaLu
So steroids don't make you gain weight?

No of course not. You only gain weight when your intake exceeds your bodies requirements and the body stores the excess

If you confuse the body by messing with it's chemistry, you'll find the balance a lot harder to maintain, but it's still a choice, no matter how much you wish to paint the victim picture.

Of course, some weight gain can be water retention, but if you're dumb enough to take steroids, then you'll also have no problem taking diuretic drugs to poison yourself back to a slimmer physique

It would seem that the Mayo Clinic doesn't agree with your "learned" opinion.

Steroids cause weight gain -- sometimes to the tune of 20 to 30 pounds in a couple of months. To say that someone is "dumb" for taking them is really ignorant of the issues facing the disabled in our country. Do us all a favor and put forth a tiny bit of effort into research before you make your uninformed comments.

Many people have the choice of losing their bladder or bowel control, versus going on a steroid regimen. Are they dumb for doing so?

I wish that you would wake up tomorrow in my friend's body, the one with MS to see what her day is like. Not only does she battle for function, and have to get about the world in a wheelchair, but she has to listen to the nasty remarks of people like you who think she's in a wheelchair because she's so fat, not because she's crippled.

I don't understand why people who have full mobility, good health and all the blessings in the world have to be so mean and nasty to others.

reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 08:04 AM by RogerT

reply to post by VelmaLu

Nice rant. Here's mine in response ...

1. You don't know ANYTHING about my current physical condition.
2. You don't know ANYTHING about my current level of medical knowlege or my knowlege of health and healing.
3. You don't know ANYTHING about the motivations behind my posts.
4. You don't appear to know much if ANYTHING about steroid use beyond what you read at the mayonaise clinic website [which you misread, misunderstood or misrepresented]
5. You certainly have not done much if ANY research on pharmaceutical steroid alternatives.

What do you know?

Do you know anything about the many natural cures for MS that don't involve systematic destruction of the bodies natural mechanisms through the use of toxic chemicals?

Maybe you should take a dose of your own medicine and do some research before assuming others haven't. Perhaps then you could be of more assistance to your friend and offer her more than your pity and blind emotional defense ( I applaud you for the latter

)

[edit on 28/11/08 by RogerT]

reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 08:29 AM by malcr

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by LostNemesis

Obese have right to 2 airline seats: Canada court

news.yahoo.com

The high court declined to hear an appeal by Canadian airlines of a decision by the Canadian Transportation Agency that people who are "functionally disabled by obesity" deserve to have two seats for one fare.

The airlines had lost an appeal at the Federal Court of Appeal in May and had sought to launch a fresh appeal at the Supreme Court. The court's decision not to hear a new appeal means the one-person-one-fare policy stands.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is really simple. You pay for one seat, you get one seat.
If you decided to overeat, then unfortunately, you must pay the consequences. I have no interest in having my ticket price raised to compensate for someone who can't say no to a cheeseburger.

In addition why should somebody pay extra for the weight of their luggage when they, their family and all their luggage is lighter than one obese person who pays nothing extra?

Either the surcharge is to account for the xtra fuel due to the weight or it's not. As far as I am aware the planes engines can't distinguish between a few founds of flesh and a few pounds of luggage.

reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 09:54 AM by VelmaLu

Originally posted by RogerT
reply to post by VelmaLu

Nice rant. Here's mine in response ...

1. You don't know ANYTHING about my current physical condition.
2. You don't know ANYTHING about my current level of medical knowlege or my knowlege of health and healing.
3. You don't know ANYTHING about the motivations behind my posts.
4. You don't appear to know much if ANYTHING about steroid use beyond what you read at the mayonaise clinic website [which you misread, misunderstood or misrepresented]
5. You certainly have not done much if ANY research on pharmaceutical steroid alternatives.

What do you know?

Do you know anything about the many natural cures for MS that don't involve systematic destruction of the bodies natural mechanisms through the use of toxic chemicals?

Maybe you should take a dose of your own medicine and do some research before assuming others haven't. Perhaps then you could be of more assistance to your friend and offer her more than your pity and blind emotional defense ( I applaud you for the latter )

[edit on 28/11/08 by RogerT]

The only thing I know about you is from what you've written and based on that, you don't know much about steroids if you believe they do not cause weight gain.

It's a pretty poor straw man attack. "You don't know anything about about the secret levels of Dungeons and Dragons and I do." Makes about as much sense. Please try to adhere to the subject being discussed.

I do have firsthand knowledge about steroid use. I don't really care if there are alternatives, herbal remedies or voodoo medicine for MS. That isn't the topic at hand, is it? Start a new thread and we'll discuss it there.

The standard treatment for MS is STEROIDS such as methylprednisone. My friend took it, went on a calorie restricted diet and gained enormous amounts of weight. She couldn't feed herself at the time, so it wasn't like she was sneaking food. You claim this is impossible. So back it up. I supported my claims that steroids cause weight gain (using reputable sources, btw), you have not supported your position that they do not.

That was what we were discussing, or have you forgotten?

reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 10:22 AM by RogerT

reply to post by VelmaLu

No you are wrong again.

I am claiming that being fat is a choice.

You are claiming that some drug causes people to become fat and they have no choice in taking it - ergo they are helpless victims.

I dispute your claim and assert that there are alternatives to taking steroids just as there are alternatives to eating doughnuts, therefore taking steroids is a choice. Just because you 'don't care' about those alternatives, or are too stubborn or closed minded to explore them, doesn't make them any less valid alternatives.

In addition, you also state that steroids cause weight gain, yet this is false. Even the wonderful mayo clinic can only declare that steroids 'increase your risk' of weight gain. 'Increasing risk' is similar in semantics to 'promote' or 'creates a propensity', and is not the same as 'cause'.

Consuming more than your body can use causes weight gain - nothing else.

Being fat is a choice, even if sometimes it is a hard choice.

reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 11:34 AM by VelmaLu

Nice try. Actually, the "risk" of weight gain increases with the dosage, but weight gain is a known and medically proven side effect of steroid use. It's a fact -- some people get fat from taking steroids which are the standard treatment for their disease. The more you use, the greater the likelihood you will have weight gain.

Prescription Drugs That Cause Weight Gain

Weight gain can range from a few pounds to more than a hundred pounds, which can occur with corticosteroids.

Some drugs alter metabolism, causing the body to burn calories more slowly or to store fat. Some corticosteroids, for example, make the body less able to absorb blood glucose, and this can lead to fat deposits in the trunk and weight gain.

Johns Hopkins Article

By your logic, someone who is crippled CHOSE to be disabled because they signed a release form allowing their gangrenous legs to be amputated. Or someone who is blind due to their eyes being removed because of ocular cancer decided to be that way because they agreed to the surgery.

Now that is just being absurd.

Would you hate everyone who is disabled because most of them "chose" to be that way? Should we not accommodate anyone's limitations because we can make some convoluted argument that their disability is their choice?

My friend didn't choose to gain weight because of steroids were her only option offered (she was in the hospital at the time and really didn't have a method for digging up roots and making some magical elixir, but I'll pass your suggestion on), nor did she overeat.

Her weight gain is not her fault, is clearly a medical issue and not the result of overeating, being lazy or gluttonous -- no matter how some people would like to hate her for it. She's fat because she's got MS and the standard treatment was steroids.

[edit on 28-11-2008 by VelmaLu]

reply posted on 29-11-2008 @ 06:11 AM by RogerT

"Argue for your limitations and they are yours."

There is no convincing a victim that they have choice until they are willing to take responsibility for those choices they have already made.

The shame here is that your friend must live out the rest of her shortened life in a wheelchair, suffering the uncomfortableness and indignities of being fat as well as the MS, and you are more interested in being right than discovering how to set her free. sigh.

last post in this thread from me. feel free to have the last word.

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 05:32 AM by blueorder

why were no overweight people spotted being liberated in the concentration camps?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Someone address this point!

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 07:15 AM by Flighty

reply to post by blueorder

Thats about as intelligent as using Cancer victims as an example.

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 08:25 AM by citizen smith

Originally posted by Now_Then
It's a safety hazard for people to be that large

As someone who had taken part in airliner emergency evac proceedure I agree with you

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 08:28 AM by blueorder

Originally posted by Flighty
reply to post by blueorder

Thats about as intelligent as using Cancer victims as an example.

no it isn't Im sure there were cancer sufferers at Belsen

Simple fact is when you are not allowed to eat to excess you do not get fat

[edit on 4-12-2008 by blueorder]

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 08:29 AM by blueorder

Originally posted by RogerT
"Argue for your limitations and they are yours."

There is no convincing a victim that they have choice until they are willing to take responsibility for those choices they have already made.

The shame here is that your friend must live out the rest of her shortened life in a wheelchair, suffering the uncomfortableness and indignities of being fat as well as the MS, and you are more interested in being right than discovering how to set her free. sigh.

last post in this thread from me. feel free to have the last word.

so very true, the culture of victimhood imprisons too many people.....................

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 09:24 AM by Finn1916

Originally posted by VelmaLu
Actually, I'm trying to determine where you draw the line. Is it the excess weight, size or just fat people in general? Or is it based on body fat percentage?

Should a very short 5' tall obese woman who fits in the seat be charged the same as a very tall body builder who weighs 250 lbs but doesn't? If his chest and back are so big and muscular that they extend over the sides of the seat, should they be charged for two seats?

I'm asking you to be specific. Obviously, if you believe your solution is fair, you should have no issue applying it to real world examples.

Short answer, if you fill more than one seat, pay for on. if you don't fill more than one seat, don't. cause yes you can be obese and still fit in one seat depending on your height. no to wheelchair people cause their wheelchair is the only thing that takes up space and they already have special spaces for the chairs. But if you need more than one seat because you spll into another, obese, body builder, frost giant, then pay for more than one.

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 08:25 PM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by jibeho

I run an airline and took aircraft designed for 2 seats/3 seats per row, and jammed the seats closer so I could seat 3 seats on each side, AND I crammed the rows closer together to get more asses in every plane.

I have a common carrier license from the government in exchange for all the tax-supported facilities I enjoy in order to do my business. The government thinks that fat people (who pay just as much in taxes as anyone else) shouldn't be *Snip* over because I decided to jam my passengers into my aircraft like sardines to make more money.

In Canada, I'm *Snip* out of luck. Fortunately, I can move down to Texas and call myself Southwest Airlines if I don't like Canadian rules.

We'll see how many airlines elect to stay in Canada after the horrible ruling that they have to cut obese people a little slack because their seats are jammed together too tight. Hidden hand of the market and everything, I think that they can still manage to oversell flights enough to make their nut.

Mod Edit: Please Do Not Use Profanity.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by MemoryShock]

reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 04:41 AM by blueorder

what the hell has paying taxes got to do with flying a commercial airline?

Stop eating so much and you wont get fat, maybe do a little excercise, I know it sounds crazy but hey

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