Did Gnosticism try and Usurp Christianity or is it the Real Message of Christ.

its time to worry about your future after you die...theres a new christian society that really makes sence www.heavensrangers.com...join gods army in heaven...........falcon51

reply to post by falcon51


Hello falcon,

I would like to shed my thoughts on this link and would love to hear your thoughts back if you will...

Jesus did not fight against man. There is a reason Jesus did not fight....its because he practiced what he preached. This is what makes Jesus the ultimate teacher....he walked the walk.

Im not saying that we are not warriors for the light...but I think we are peacekeepers that come to bring the peace by walking the same example as Christ. Our humble actions might not speak words now, but they will impact the future minds.

There is no greater conquer of hate, then practicing love. Love is the ultimate conquer. One day, this humble and passive action will catch up to this hateful world.


Peace,
LV

Getting back on track with the thread questioning Gnostic writings, here is the link I use to study the Nag Hammadi text. A follower of any man should read all the writings that portray the mans teachings instead of taking another mans word for it that they are true or false. If you are a true seeker, you will study all things that contain Christs name and you will weigh for yourself what your feelings are on the matter instead of weighing for gratification from others.

www.thenazareneway.com...

Peace to all,
LV

Originally posted by Grandma
badmedia:

Please I beg forgiveness. I am so sorry I didn't get your point. Yes, it is true we will be known by our fruits of the vine. My daughter loves the vineyard and the winepress.

I too worry about the coming of the end of times and the anti-christ. I fear he is among us now. And I weep for those who still do not see with spiritual eyes and knowledge. We must be very careful to hark the words of Christ and know his spirit with our spirit and trust his word.

I know how one can get carried away with zeal for the Lord. I too get that way. Amos3:8 But I say, "I will not mention him or speak any more in his name,,,,,,,,,his word is in my heart like a fire, a fire shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in." I can really relate to that!!!!

I thank you for sharing your path with us. It really means a lot to open up to others you do not know but know we are one in the spirit with you.

Really nothing to ask forgiveness for, as to ask questions is to seek, and to seek is a must for finding truth. Happy to clarify.

What I mean there is you have to look at people by their actions, not what they say, not what they claim to be. When you look at a politician for example, if you just listen to what they say, they sound good. But when you look at their actions(fruits), then you can see they are not so good.

And this is how you can tell what is truly against Christ(anti-christ). There are many anti-christs among the people. The anti-christ of revelations however is the figurehead of it. It is the system and the worship of people under him that gives the anti-christ his power.

So, our best defense against this is to make sure we have good knowledge of what Jesus taught, and then look at what people do in their actions, to see if it matches up with that. By doing that, we will not be deceived.

What I worry about as it pertains to Jesus, is that people worship the idol, but then do not understand the teachings, and do not look at their actions(fruits). Because of this, someone can come up, put up a bunch of smoke and mirrors, make the claim of Jesus, or being a follower of Jesus, and then mislead those people to do things which go against the teachings of Jesus, and are thus "against christ".

I submit GWB as evidence A. Who claims to be christian, gets the votes of christians but in his actions leads people into supporting things which goes against what Jesus told people to do. If the christian has understanding of the teachings, they will not be fooled when someone does this.

Hitler, evidence B, and I'm sure we can name out many who have done and followed this path in our history. The anti-christ of the bible is just able to do this not just on a single country, but over the entire world.

Btw, you are gnositic. gnositc means: relating to, or possessing intellectual or spiritual knowledge.

www.answers.com...

As you have your own experience and knowledge, and do not rely soly on the strict interpretation of the bible, you are gnostic.

To those who arent sure if they should read gnostic texts....

I think many Christians are afraid to even look up any other source of information about Christ because they fear being called a heretic. It took me 2 to 3 yrs. to realize that I WAS supposed to search, I WAS supposed to seek, I WAS supposed to weigh it all for myself. I can remember searching this kinda information in the beginning of my mind twisted out of its pre impacted thoughts and I would hide in my computer room afraid of what others would think of me. Once I realized it was only God that mattered in what I thought and only God mattered on if I was doing wrong or not, my freedom to my birth right as a divine worthy being became prevalent to me and I no longer cared what my former labeled religious friends would think of me....I lived for God, truly, finally, once and for all.

When I first released this power over me that I HAD to believe the Bible word for word, I realized that the angels were there for me, the Holy Spirit was waiting to show me things. Through dreams and synchronicity, I realized I had found my path and I wasn't alone of the path. I also realized that the works of God were more beautiful and harmonizing then I ever imagined.

Peace,
LV

reply to post by badmedia


badmedia:

When I sit and ponder on my 30 some years with walking my path. I see now more clearly through the veil of ignorance and find myself conscious of the mystical knowledge of the essence of the mysteries of workings of the Spirit as he works in our lives. Helping us crucify all the earthly trappings of our earthly body to receive those of the heavenly realm.

I did not see this as I started my journey, but I am thankful that in our alone time he did pick me up in his hand and taught me. It took me over thirty years of being his vessel where he worked his magic. Like a piece of old coal he is polishing me into a diamond someday.

Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by Supercertari


The "I am the Way, the truth, the light..." bit comes from John which reading will show that this book provides a bit of a different take than the rest of the New Testament. In fact, it has questionable origins which a little googling or hard copy reading will point out. Unfortunately, most of fundamental Christianity is primarily based upon this book and the premise that Jesus was different than us and the "Son of God". NONE of the rest of the New Testament says this but rather shows Jesus calling us his brothers showing us how to pray to "OUR FATHER", not my father. Just like with every other major religion, man worships the messenger and not the message.

Reading with your eyes open will reveal that Gnosticism is indeed VERY, very close to Jesus' message, expecialy if you get rid of the book of John. There is very much the same message, only hidden for those "who can see" in Matthew and Mark ("Q").

Gnosticism failed because the Romans converted to Catholocism and Gnosticism as well as alll of the other sects were then persecuted. This is but one reason it failed. The other major factor is that you cannot control people with this belief system because it empowers the individual. Catholocism is all about interceding on your behalf to god and about political control and personal control. You have to take the state of he church in those early days into consideration when evaluating these things.

There are a few thoughts I have for the topic at hand;

I feel that the true religion s the Thousand-Fold Path, for each person has a different route to the peak of the mountain of virtue and enlightenment.

What I cannot agree with is the establishment and the Church. It is astounding how desirable the Church makes Submission and Subservience sound. Each human being is born with the divine spark, but it is no assurance of becoming one with the Divine Creator again. We are stuck in a fatalistic cycle of rebirth, some of us persist for others who have not reached enlightenment, and others are still sleeping in the darkness.

By subsuming your soul in fidelity and subservience to another entity, you squander your vast spiritual potential. Christ's message was to fulfill the promise of that divine spark through overcoming the physical self and escaping from the trap of this world, we are each of us a Prometheus awaiting our chains to be cut while the vultures of materialism and slavery feast on the workings of our spirit.

Truth in Sophia is that we are hers, and she wants us to attain equality in the divine state... not to submit nor to serve, but to become EQUAL.

en.wikipedia.org...(sect)

This was the sect that contained the early followers of Christ, according to books I've researched.

reply to post by Nox Vulpes


For the story of the Cathars please go to wheresjesus.multiply.com...:journal:585&replies_read=69 and 'find' cathar or go down the page to November 17.

You will need to read the subsequent posts on that day to read more or less the whole story.

reply to post by whiteraven


Christianity has been responsible for burning women as witches - see wheresjesus.multiply.com...:journal:585&replies_read=69 then Find 'Hexen' post on 22 November.

Christians were well practised in burning women by this time though, they gained experience in burning women during the Crusade against the Christian Cathars. The Inquisition was set up just after that horrific episode in a long history of persecution, torture and massacre by the Church.

reply to post by Malankhkare


Thank you very much! I'll be reading this tonight. Still interested in the Cathars.

I would like to contribute more to this conversation, but I'm struck by a weird irony - so many words we've used to grasp what was always, to me, intuitive, simple - empty. Still a good read this thread, I've diggin it. Heaps of knowledge here and passion

[edit on 23-11-2008 by Nox Vulpes]

I have enjoyed reading the thread through, thanks to all who have contributed. I have been thinking about starting to attend Church again, but any church I have ever attended, has, IMO, not concerned itself with the teachings of Christ, but the teaching of others, who, from my understanding, often contradicted the teachings of Christ. A good example would be the seven deadly sins, they seem to have ignored hypocrisy. I guess pride could be considered as arrogance, but I think that there is a clear difference. What Christ taught was that arrogance and hypocrisy were the most evil of vices, but arrogance and hypocrisy seem to be the main elements of most organized religions, and the catholics are among the worst, IMO.

So little of the actual words of Christ are in the bible. If you took out just the quotes of things that Christ is said to have actually spoken, you probably wouldn't have ten pages. To me, the only thing in the bible worth reading are the things that Christ has spoken, as I have found them to be brilliant.

This brings me to the subject of people without souls, that was discussed earlier in the thread. The thing is that in Christ's sermon on the mount, he clearly designated who would go where. Only a few people will inherit the kingdom of heaven, a great many people will inherit the Earth (whatever that means), and a great many people will inherit neither the kingdom of heaven or Earth. It doesn't seem to be a large step to look at those who will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven or Earth to be people without souls. If memory serves me right, their names are not written in the book of life.

AS far as Christ not being a man of action, he did turn over the tables of the Pharisees in the church. Chirst does point out that there are those who will suffer eternal damnation, and that it will be God who condemns them, so God does punish those who are wrong. As humans, we must be willing to help ourselves, and sometimes that means defending ourselves.

Yes, I am sure that the path of Gnostism is a very rock road, one less travelled. I think I would choose this path over the broad and level path the Catholic church would rather I walk. I suspect the rocky road will lead me to a better place.

I had never known that Gnosticism was actually a branch of Christianity until I read this thread, so thank you very much for bring this to my attention. I will definately have to look further into this way. Wasn't it written that at the end of times, the true religion of God will be revealed?

Well I think this thread forgets a lot of points.


1. There were many different forms of Christianity until the Council of Nicea
2. At the Council of Nicea, the only forms which were given any priority were those which agreed with Roman Traditions (patriarchy, etc)

The Christianity handed down from Rome left a lot of different versions lying on the cutting room floor.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

HunkaHunka:

No one here has forgotten that. What we have ALL agreed on, and this is some of us from different paths of our walk and a different levels as to our spiritual growth.


1. That Jesus came to show us the way home. He did this by his teachings and by use of the disciples.
2. We all have the spark within us at creation. I believe that we CAN become aware of that spark of spirit that the Creator gives us by the use of reading ALL texts that one can find, including the bible and the gnostic texts. I believe that if we truly seek the heavenly Father with ahumbled heart, humbled spirit, humbled mind, and humbled body that during our quiet time or alone time with the Father we come before him truly seeking wisdom of the mystical knowledge or conciousness of the soul or spirit.
3. Does it matter if one goes to church? I don't know. I can't go because of my handicap but I believe I have the most mystical relationship that my Lord has shown me. He has reached down and picked me up and took me to places where I can walk again....but more than that He has put the wisdom in my mind, heart, body, and soul. We die each day to the earthly desires of our bodies to reach the heavenly realms of the Father. Jesus taught us that but your spirit will become one with his and your spirit will teach you what you need to know.
4. If we go on this spiritual quest for the essence of what is yet to be shown us, it can be a lifetime of seeking as there is always knowledge to learn.

I don't believe that what happened a long time ago (albeit wrong) or the dogma's of different churches really matters to Christ. I believe that what matters to him and the Father that the soul learns the mysteries that the Holy Spirit (teacher) all that fills our spiritual bodies.


Peace to you,
Grandma

Originally posted by Grandma
I don't believe that what happened a long time ago (albeit wrong) or the dogma's of different churches really matters to Christ. I believe that what matters to him and the Father that the soul learns the mysteries that the Holy Spirit (teacher) all that fills our spiritual bodies.

I see everything as a school. My consciousness is just in this body temporarily as a way of teaching me the difference in good versus evil. Nothing makes a white dot stick out more than a black background.

You can't understand hot without experiencing cold as well. You could always be one or the other, but you could not understand nor truly appreciate what you have without experiencing the other at least once.

This is how we learn the mysteries you speak about. So while evil, and nothing I can agree with - without it we would be ignorant and unable to really understand or appreciate what is given.

So I agree, all that matters is we learn the lesson.

Reincarnation makes a definitive amount of sense if one is to ascribe to there being a Creator Being... otherwise, souls are being born and discarded by the hundreds of thousands every year.

Since I like to think that people HAVE souls, and that the Creator finds each soul to be precious, I think that having do-over's and repeated-lives to make much more sense in a divine context than "Sorry, you get one shot. If you miss, you're out. For eternity in hell."

I honestly think that we're all on our own divine Paths. "The 1,000 Fold Path".

Nobody is wrong.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


That's an excellent link. Thank you.

reply to post by Nizzmo


There are a lot of websites out there that are based around the teachings of Samael Aun Weor. He developed his own ideas around the 70's about gnosis. Some of his ideas make sense, but he has some strange ideas or interpriations of some of the gnostic myths/texts. Within the gnostic community, he isn't looked at very highly, that's the gist I get. For one, he believes that males can't do a certain activity and basically says that the way to "enlightenment" is white tantra. It is just sort of strange to tie gnosticism to certain sexual actions which is what he proposes. Everyone has to find their own truth of course, but just a warning about that lol. Most gnostics don't agree with that but unfortunatly, his teachings are some of the most popular when it comes to gnosticism; he sort of has developed a "brand". He has the right idea about sexuality playing a role, but it isn't a physical thing but a sort of metaphor perhaps about our attitude to everything in life, not just sex and it has nothing to do with sex. Both gnosticism and Kabbalah point in this direction.

[edit on 2-12-2008 by ghaleon12]

reply to post by defcon5


Get a grip. Religions ALL had their beginnings from same intent. Humans became the creator...Recreating nature to their images of new potential (artistically creative) Then came the TRADERS (the REAL first profession....to be a prostitute their must be an exchange of money or similar gain)
The Traders ammassed wealth & gave themselves illustrious titles & have been hell bent on wanting to own everyone & everything since. They have gone to elaborate lengths to ensure we mugs believe their garbage to protect their positions of power & wealth.
Some would be laughing so hard at some of the sincere but intense debates (many die defending this garbage) of these carefully created myth & superstions ... but others of their ilk have been sucked into believing in them also.
Havent you people woken up to the fact that you need to reassess ALL you have been taught to believe.
You couldnt get 10 people witnessing one event to agree about what they saw...Yet people get hot & bothered about garbage written some 6ooyrs after the death of a Jesus Christ!!!! All the religions essentially have the same storyline & fight about the differences!! Time to really SEE those behind the longest running con job.
Since it is the intent that the NWO will rip your religions from you & give you another version it wont be long brfore you are forced to wake up.
Judynz