Originally posted by ll__raine__ll
i read this whole thread from start to end and up until this post was of the opinion that, although lower than pondscum, those complicit in encouraging the boys suicide are not ultimately responsible for what he did and that it would be a waste of time and money to pursue it.

Once again, I believe those responsible are the ones failing to provide adequate moderation in such forums/chat rooms. It’s a lack of responsibility on the behalf of those creating the forums/chat rooms.

If we've learned anything in the last 10 years it's that anonymity online can be dangerous; this case in particularly proving that point. The sad, the lonely and the desperate gather without fear of exposure, to openly mock, wind up, goad and insult others.

Imagine a chat room in reality where people meet in the flesh, and openly encourage one of the 'chatters' to commit suicide... it just wouldn't happen and certainly wouldn't be acceptable.

I ask again, where are the moderators?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

They are a drain whilst they are alive. I've been acquainted with many so-called suicidal people and all they want to do is wallow in self-pity and not listen to anything anyone says.

If someone says to me they may kill themself, I usually request they do something dramatic like jump off a roof, because I've never seen that. I tell them that they have to give me enough time to cook some popcorn and draw a crowd.

What a vile, bitter, disgusting excuse for a human being.

Its not hard at all to see where your various problems come from. In fact you gave it away later on in that same post.

Second off, My father died of cancer when I was 17. He had throat cancer, and then pancreatic cancer. Pretty well expected for someone who smoked 3 packs a day and drank a 6 pack a day and never exercised.

He was a drain on my family while alive because he was always abusive and, which is to be expected from an alcoholic in denial. He was a bastard to live with when he was healthy and we had to take care of him when he was sick.. The day he died was such a relief because his tyranny over the family was done.

As someone who has had to deal with depression and suicidal thoughts for almost a decade, let me reassure you that you are completely clueless and should just stop talking before you make an even bigger ass of yourself. The badass persona you're attempting to portray is pathetic.

I never wish for anyone to have to endure suicidal thoughts, but you deserve it. I hope you find yourself in a state of mental anguish very soon with no one around to care because you're such a blithering idiot and sadistic wannabe badass.

[edit on 24-11-2008 by ben420]

Originally posted by thebox
I ask again, where are the moderators?

i went over to bodybuilding.com and read up on the situation.
do you guys realize that one of the moderators screen name "roxie" is one of the biggest agitators. she will be liable big time! she allowed the threads to continue and egged the guy on and made fun of him. she said some of the most horrendous things and deleted her posts but other members saved screen shots. he had made other suicide threats on that website and talked openly about his pharmecutical abuse. his screen name was "candy junkie 2". go over to the forums on bodybuilding.com if you want the lowdown. real sad stuff.

Originally posted by thebox
Hmm, well if the moderators are behaving like that then that particular forum has no hope.

The question is, do the owners of the site know about this?

Even hinting at holding the server administerators, forum moderators, or website owners responsible for this is akin to trashing the Bill of Rights after 911. In order to keep EVERYONE safe we need to take EVERYONE's rights away!

Anyone could start their own forum in a few minutes. There are many small forums that may only have a couple of moderators and they simply CANNOT babysit everyone 24/7.

In addition if you even hint at prosecuting webmasters or moderators, who are just regular people and who may not have ANY money the next step is to go after those with deeper pockets (i.e. server owners, who may have some money). Lawyers don't sue people unless there is money involved.

This type of knee jerk panic leads to losing our rights. But yall just can't see that can you? If lawsuits are filed and a precident is set free forum sites like yahoo! and others would DISAPPEAR! They can't be responsible for the millions of users that use their forums, so they would simply get rid of the forums.

Those of you that worry about freedom and government control and conspiracy theories, many of you are ENCOURAGING that very sheeple mindset!

Freedom of the internet is FAR FAR more important than the actions of one or two whacky individuals. And the fact is if the kid who killed himself had NOT been a bit whacky NONE of this would have happened. He is the one who is directly responsible for all of this, no one else. He was the one that took the pills. No one convinced him to do it, no one provided the pill and said "kill yourself". Place the blame where it belongs.

By glorifying this act and making it a media frenzy I would expect copy cats. Who will be responsible then? The news media?


[edit on 24-11-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
i have had threads moved or deleted for much less by moderators on all kinds of sites, so don't tell me moderators don't babysit the forums. this kid was talking openly about drugs and killing himself! the moderator didn't babysit him, she egged him on and dared him to kill himself. either that moderator should have banned him a long time ago, or she herself should have been fired by the site owners. instead she let the threads continue! she has to have some sort of responsiblity!

"Fired" by the site owners? A lot of those forums are run by a small group of friends. Do you think they all have corporations behind them? NO! As stated, you could start a forum today. You could recruit a couple of your buddies to help you run it. That does NOT mean you take responsibility for everything any nutcase posts on your forum at 3 am.

The moderator in question is probably a teenager. Do you really think they are going to sue her? She probably has NO MONEY! In real the real world if this sparks civil action they will move right past her and look for the deeper pockets.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Even hinting at holding the server administerators, forum moderators, or website owners responsible for this is akin to trashing the Bill of Rights after 911. In order to keep EVERYONE safe we need to take EVERYONE's rights away!
[edit on 24-11-2008 by Sonya610]

I wasn't hinting at holding the administrators/moderators responsible for the suicides etc, I'm hinting at holding them responsible (in some cases, as mentioned with regards to the bodybuilding forum) for poor moderation.

Generally though my problem is with the lack of moderation, not existing admin/moderation.

um that site is massive, not run by me and a few friends lol! and i don't care if they sue her, i think she should be prosecuted by the law! just my opinion.

Originally posted by theboxI wasn't hinting at holding the administrators/moderators responsible for the suicides etc, I'm hinting at holding them responsible (in some cases, as mentioned with regards to the bodybuilding forum) for poor moderation.

Generally though my problem is with the lack of moderation, not existing admin/moderation.

Just realize if this case actually DID lead to people being successfully sued it would effect MOST internet sites. Do you think every thread on ATS is carefully looked over by a moderat within minutes? I have seen threads up for a day with lots of traffic before they are removed because the original OP violated hte t&c's.

So imagine if someone posted a thread here and it got one or two ugly responses, and for whatever reason no one flagged it and no moderators saw it for an hour, but then some kid ended up dead. I can assure you ATS would be a better target for a lawsuit than some bodybuilder forum run by 3 college kids. It would effect ALL websites because there is NO WAY to prevent inappropriate use on a forum accessible to the public.

[edit on 24-11-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by thebox

Originally posted by Sonya610
Even hinting at holding the server administerators, forum moderators, or website owners responsible for this is akin to trashing the Bill of Rights after 911. In order to keep EVERYONE safe we need to take EVERYONE's rights away!
[edit on 24-11-2008 by Sonya610]

I wasn't hinting at holding the administrators/moderators responsible for the suicides etc, I'm hinting at holding them responsible (in some cases, as mentioned with regards to the bodybuilding forum) for poor moderation.

Generally though my problem is with the lack of moderation, not existing admin/moderation.

You can't be serious. If poor moderation were a crime, half the mods on this site alone would be up in front of The Hague before you could say "Captain Kangaroo".

Its the internet for crying out loud. Deal with it.

Seriously, there appears to be a huge gap between the way some people think the world works (or think it should work) and the way it actually does. This basic ignorance is the far bigger problem facing our society, probably worse of a threat than the NWO, Aliens, Government Conspiracy and all that combined.

Originally posted by ldunquist
You can't be serious. If poor moderation were a crime, half the mods on this site alone would be up in front of The Hague before you could say "Captain Kangaroo".

Its the internet for crying out loud. Deal with it.

To be fair you took what I said completely out of context. As i specified in the very post you responded to - it's the lack of moderation that concerns me.

Your "what can you do about it" attitude doesn't really help anybody.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by HunkaHunkaLet them have their peace then. I just don't believe that suicide should take up any of the energy of those who love life.

I agree that not all is about an audience. Those who commit suicide without an audience don't want my pity either, so we are good either way.

I believe people should have the right to kill themselves if that is what they want to do, and I think most people overreact to it but then again most people overreact to any subject that touches on death. (Though people should put the needs of dependants first if at all possible).

However I don't see the need to have nasty, condescending attitude towards those that choose that route (though if they do it on the net that is a different story, they ask for public ridicule). You seem to feel superior, or despise them. I really don't care if people choose to off themselves either, but I don't feel the need to mock their pain or their choice in final outcomes.

But perhaps your reaction is more fear based, perhaps the idea of death scares you so much that bravado and a crass attitude is merely a cover.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by Sonya610]

I see a perfect reason to be condescending to the suicidal.. I mean who better?

They don't listen to you, they are never happy, and when they finally commit the act, well it's a relief on everyone, unless it's a surprise for the family.

I tell you who I care about, it's the survivors. At the end of hte day, if you do something which ends with "icide" Then you are not worth my time.

Killing is killing, I don't care if you are killing yourself or someone else. Now many folks who commit suicide, don't want my pity. And that's great. The others who do want pity and attention, I wish they would just hurry up.

Originally posted by ben420

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

They are a drain whilst they are alive. I've been acquainted with many so-called suicidal people and all they want to do is wallow in self-pity and not listen to anything anyone says.

If someone says to me they may kill themself, I usually request they do something dramatic like jump off a roof, because I've never seen that. I tell them that they have to give me enough time to cook some popcorn and draw a crowd.

What a vile, bitter, disgusting excuse for a human being.

Why? Because I feel that those who want to kill themselves should hurry up with it?

Wow.. I'm vile.... Ok....

Its not hard at all to see where your various problems come from. In fact you gave it away later on in that same post.

Well, what you call a problem, I call a characteristic. It's not a problem for me. I don't really have to deal with suicidal people anymore because I just don't care. And if someone I know becomes suicidal, I explain to them how incredibly illogical they are, and suggest anti-depressants or exercise or something. If they are trying to help themselves then I'll help them too. But if they don't help themselves and merely wallow in the feelings of suicide, then I shut them off altogether. Nothing I can do there but waste my time.

Second off, My father died of cancer when I was 17. He had throat cancer, and then pancreatic cancer. Pretty well expected for someone who smoked 3 packs a day and drank a 6 pack a day and never exercised.

He was a drain on my family while alive because he was always abusive and, which is to be expected from an alcoholic in denial. He was a bastard to live with when he was healthy and we had to take care of him when he was sick.. The day he died was such a relief because his tyranny over the family was done.

As someone who has had to deal with depression and suicidal thoughts for almost a decade, let me reassure you that you are completely clueless

I'm clueless? Really? What if I told you that I have dealt with depression all 36 years of my life?

Would I still be clueless? Or do you expect someone who has dealt with depression all of their life to be more sympathetic to the depressed?

Well, I'm not that predictable. Actually, it is because I have dealt with depression all of my life that I don't have any patience for the suicidal. They are weak in my opiniion.

Sure we all have had the momentary "OH MY I CAN"T DEAL WITH THIS" moments like stock brokers during a crash. That's impulse, and is also as stupid if the person can't see how temporary their emotional state is.

But those who carry on about it... man, I tell ya... be done with it already.

and should just stop talking before you make an even bigger ass of yourself. The badass persona you're attempting to portray is pathetic.

I'm not attempting to portray any persona. I'm not attempting to be badass or anything, it's just how I view the world. I can understand that this view might seem callous to many. But I'm really not being callous, just preventing myself from having to deal with people who aren't worth my time.

You know how lots of families have a line drawn in the sand whereby if it gets crossed, members of the family become disowned? This is mine.

I never wish for anyone to have to endure suicidal thoughts, but you deserve it. I hope you find yourself in a state of mental anguish very soon with no one around to care because you're such a blithering idiot and sadistic wannabe badass.

[edit on 24-11-2008 by ben420]

Oh I already have! That's the whole point. If I can make it through the mental anguish that I deal with every day, so can they. And if they can't.. well I don't want them reproducing now do I?

Why so much anger at me? Wow.. just wow...



[edit on 24-11-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by ldunquist
I agree, if someone is going to wallow in it, then there's not much that can be done other than to minimize the impact on those around them.

Likewise, I am familiar with long term clinical depression. Perhaps that is what causes the "deal with it" attitude. I have an aversion to those that talk about it because usually it is a plea for sympathy, not really a cry for intervention. It is a bit different with teenagers though, as they tend to act on spur of the moment impulses, but in this kids case it sounds like he had a chemical imbalance so it probably was not just a passing "my girlfriend broke up with me" phase.

However I do not look down or despise those that go that route. If people are suffering for extended periods of time (several years) and drugs/therapy do not help then at some point it just becomes masochism. The views regarding suicide are very culturally driven.