reply to post by donhuangenaro
Science is a methodology. That's all. Most of it isn't even directly funded by governments. I don't know what paranoid delusions you are
labouring under, but I know plenty of scientists, and they are not tools of the governments.
Are you scared of people who know more than your or something? That's the only thing I can think of that would allow someone to spout off such
ridiculous assertions about something they clearly have no understanding of.
It's confirmed: Matter is merely vacuum fluctuations, page 3
privacy
reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 02:15 AM by Astyanax
reply to post by donhuangenaro
Check your u2u box, please.
I have much to say to you, but it is - like your posts on this thread - off topic.
Check your u2u box, please.
I have much to say to you, but it is - like your posts on this thread - off topic.
reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 12:14 PM by Zepherian
reply to post by constantwonder
I find it curious that you cannot link the funding of science with the control of what science gets done. Money controls everything in this world, including science. The fact that you got funded made you overlook this, but I garantee you that if your area of expertise were something the world elite did not want to get researched, say water for fuel, you most likely would not get funding.
You, like almost all left brain science type I have met have a trouble understanding how human society works, because you're too focused on closed systems and theoretical models to get into the adequate frame of mind. And because you can't get there you assume it's just people being paranoid. Sure, some scientists want their work to be divulged, but that dosen't alter how the system works on a broader level. And it does indeed filter information and the institutional level, supressing some material, even if right, while pushing other material, even if wrong. There are agendas mixed into the scientific establishment, and it's pretty obvious for "conspiracy theorists", which is I term I almost equate with "historian" or "sociologist".
I find it curious that you cannot link the funding of science with the control of what science gets done. Money controls everything in this world, including science. The fact that you got funded made you overlook this, but I garantee you that if your area of expertise were something the world elite did not want to get researched, say water for fuel, you most likely would not get funding.
You, like almost all left brain science type I have met have a trouble understanding how human society works, because you're too focused on closed systems and theoretical models to get into the adequate frame of mind. And because you can't get there you assume it's just people being paranoid. Sure, some scientists want their work to be divulged, but that dosen't alter how the system works on a broader level. And it does indeed filter information and the institutional level, supressing some material, even if right, while pushing other material, even if wrong. There are agendas mixed into the scientific establishment, and it's pretty obvious for "conspiracy theorists", which is I term I almost equate with "historian" or "sociologist".
reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 06:03 PM by stander
Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by constantwonder
I find it curious that you cannot link the funding of science with the control of what science gets done. Money controls everything in this world, including science. The fact that you got funded made you overlook this, but I garantee you that if your area of expertise were something the world elite did not want to get researched, say water for fuel, you most likely would not get funding.
You, like almost all left brain science type I have met have a trouble understanding how human society works, because you're too focused on closed systems and theoretical models to get into the adequate frame of mind. And because you can't get there you assume it's just people being paranoid. Sure, some scientists want their work to be divulged, but that dosen't alter how the system works on a broader level. And it does indeed filter information and the institutional level, supressing some material, even if right, while pushing other material, even if wrong. There are agendas mixed into the scientific establishment, and it's pretty obvious for "conspiracy theorists", which is I term I almost equate with "historian" or "sociologist".
Congrats, Zeph. You surely have a way with the ATS mods. The topic of this thread is the property of quantum vacuum, not government funding. We stayed on topic when dave_g and I pointed to you that you made a mistake when you related matter and energy the way you did. The correction posts and the follow ups got deleted, but since the juicy conspiratory theme is what ATS sells, I'm looking forward to read your perfectly on topic posts.
reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 06:26 PM by Zepherian
reply to post by stander
Last time I got a U2U it was 6 of them, with mods deleting my posts... so no, there's no conspiracy theory there. I have been very critical of ATS on other threads and suspect I am not exactly the favorite user here
So as for me being off topic, if that is what is decided that is what will happen, I'll get deleted, it's been done before and will probably end up being done again.
In my defense, the conspiratorial angle, the NWO memetic manipulation, which is something I hold as real, is relevant to any and all major scientific proclamations. It's up to the individual to decide if what he is hearing, both from the establishment and from the independents, like me, is credible, and make his own belief system, his own world view.
My main warning is: people lie, at all levels, sometimes with great scale and reach. So it would be nice if people were less intelectually beta and actually be more critical of what they are, in essence, being told, not demonstrated. Scientists are frequently wrong, they have a bad track record if you actually read up on the history of science.
Last time I got a U2U it was 6 of them, with mods deleting my posts... so no, there's no conspiracy theory there. I have been very critical of ATS on other threads and suspect I am not exactly the favorite user here
So as for me being off topic, if that is what is decided that is what will happen, I'll get deleted, it's been done before and will probably end up being done again.
In my defense, the conspiratorial angle, the NWO memetic manipulation, which is something I hold as real, is relevant to any and all major scientific proclamations. It's up to the individual to decide if what he is hearing, both from the establishment and from the independents, like me, is credible, and make his own belief system, his own world view.
My main warning is: people lie, at all levels, sometimes with great scale and reach. So it would be nice if people were less intelectually beta and actually be more critical of what they are, in essence, being told, not demonstrated. Scientists are frequently wrong, they have a bad track record if you actually read up on the history of science.
reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 07:06 PM by constantwonder
didnt i say other than those under military contracts? of course places like livermore, los alamos, boeing and a few others are government funded,
However places where the highest levels of research in the civilian sectors such as The Institute for advanced study only recieved 20k from the
goveernment last year and that was for emergency health and safety aswell as maintenance.
leg2.state.va.us...
but anyways back on topic i still think that this is much like loop quantum gravity.... damn physics makes me randy
[edit on 28-11-2008 by constantwonder]
Institute For Advanced Learning And Research
245 1s IALR - Emergency Health and Safety Assessment Funding $0 $20,000
245 2s IALR - Maintenance Funding
leg2.state.va.us...
but anyways back on topic i still think that this is much like loop quantum gravity.... damn physics makes me randy
[edit on 28-11-2008 by constantwonder]
reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 07:15 PM by Zepherian
reply to post by stander
Agreed. However, I am going beyond mystakes here, which are a natural part of the process, I am talking about lies and manipulation, which have to be factored in to how an individual views his society, as it's my contention they happen at all levels.
"The bigger the lie the easier it is to sell" I believe is the Hitler quote, although this was from memory so don't burn me if I'm not quite right.
Agreed. However, I am going beyond mystakes here, which are a natural part of the process, I am talking about lies and manipulation, which have to be factored in to how an individual views his society, as it's my contention they happen at all levels.
"The bigger the lie the easier it is to sell" I believe is the Hitler quote, although this was from memory so don't burn me if I'm not quite right.
reply posted on 28-11-2008 @ 08:24 PM by stander
Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by stander
Agreed. However, I am going beyond mystakes...
"
Quite a choice for a typo!
Even the less-than bright scientists agree that it is impossible to manipulate the mind of people for the simple reason that the target of the mental manipulation can't and never be able to understand the highly esoteric and scholarly language that science speaks and writes. The development of this thread provides more than acceptable evidence of how we "scientifically" interpret the vacuum fluctuation issue:
Vacuum fluctuation = science on the red carpet.
reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 10:19 PM by robar
reply to post by stander
When YOU die, YOU will find out that there is only ONE ! And HE will have the last word for WHERE YOU WILL SPEND ETERNITY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROBAR
When YOU die, YOU will find out that there is only ONE ! And HE will have the last word for WHERE YOU WILL SPEND ETERNITY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROBAR
reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 11:14 PM by stander
Originally posted by robar
reply to post by stander
When YOU die, YOU will find out that there is only ONE ! And HE will have the last word for WHERE YOU WILL SPEND ETERNITY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROBAR
That line of yours depends on your silly assumption that I'm mortal.
The function of death is aging. Aging is directed by DNA. DNA is a molecule composed of atoms. Atoms are composed of sub-atomic particles. Down the road is the fluctuating vacuum and the blueprint for immortality, which nulls and voids God's blah-blah-eternity speech.
reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 01:53 AM by Astyanax
reply to post by AHostileMe
Off-topic indeed, but the thread's already been pretty much ruined thanks to the earlier irruption of conspiracist twaddle, so what harm? I'll answer your question.
I would recommend a book detailing simple physical and chemical experiments that your boy can do using stuff available round the house, perhaps with a little help from you. When I was a boy such books were common, but I don't see them in the shops much nowadays. Maybe the internet has taken over: googling science experiments for kids gets over a million hits. But I'd recommend you buy a book, all the same, just to get started... if you can find one.
I would also suggest that you inculcate a scientific outlook by asking him for answers to questions like 'why is the sky blue?', 'why do some things float and others sink?', etc. Create a dialectic in which the two of you discuss and analyze his answers until you finally come to the right one. Slowly he will come to realize that science is the way to find out how the world works. He will have acquired a scientific worldview. He'll be on his way.
I'm not going to make any specific book recommendations, since I don't know anything that will appeal and make sense to a seven-year-old. And quantum mechanics is far too complex and confusing a subject for a seven-year-old even to think about, however gifted he may be; wait till he's seventeen, and if he's still interested, give it a go.
But if you will permit me, I should like to recommend a book for you to read. The book is Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!. The author, Richard Feynman, won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1965 for his work in quantum electrodynamics, the mathematics of interactions between particles at the quantum level.
I'm recommending it to you for a number of reasons. The most important of these is that Feynman was very lucky to have had a father who not only realized that his son was unusually gifted, but set himself to nurture that gift in the most amazing way. The elder Feynman was himself a clever man, though not scientifically gifted; and what he did was, whenever his son showed curiosity about something, he'd help him learn more about that subject in whatever way he could, no matter how unorthodox. Thus, when young Richard got interested in probabilities, Feynman Senior took him to Coney Island and helped him work out all the number-related scams going on there... there are a few good stories like that in the book and they may give you a few ideas for helping your own gifted son along. That's the first reason.
Additionally, it's a book that illustrates how the scientific mind works - the way it looks at the world and the things that it is interested in. These are things that aren't always clear to a nonscientist. And I think a knowledge of how scientists think will be useful to you in your efforts to help your son develop his potential - whether, in the end, he turns out to be scientifically inclined or not. That's the second reason.
Thirdly, the book shows (perhaps a bit too vividly) how much fun a life in science can be.
Fourth and lastly, the book contains a wonderful chapter called Cargo Cult Science in which the difference between real science and the nonsensical waffle of pseudoscience is made transparently clear. Our friend Zepherian should read it; he could learn much from it. But I don't suppose he'd care to.
Richard Feynman wasn't the pleasantest of people. Though fundamentally a good and kindly man, he could be quite obnoxious - a smart-alec, know-it-all practical joker who liked making other people look stupid and nursed an unhealthy fascination for the shadier side of life . He was, in his own words, a 'curious character' - even for a Nobel Prize-winning physicist. All that must have made him a hard man to live and work with - but it makes for a very entertaining book and one which, incidentally, you can read online here.
Enjoy!
[edit on 2-12-2008 by Astyanax]
Off-topic indeed, but the thread's already been pretty much ruined thanks to the earlier irruption of conspiracist twaddle, so what harm? I'll answer your question.
I would recommend a book detailing simple physical and chemical experiments that your boy can do using stuff available round the house, perhaps with a little help from you. When I was a boy such books were common, but I don't see them in the shops much nowadays. Maybe the internet has taken over: googling science experiments for kids gets over a million hits. But I'd recommend you buy a book, all the same, just to get started... if you can find one.
I would also suggest that you inculcate a scientific outlook by asking him for answers to questions like 'why is the sky blue?', 'why do some things float and others sink?', etc. Create a dialectic in which the two of you discuss and analyze his answers until you finally come to the right one. Slowly he will come to realize that science is the way to find out how the world works. He will have acquired a scientific worldview. He'll be on his way.
I'm not going to make any specific book recommendations, since I don't know anything that will appeal and make sense to a seven-year-old. And quantum mechanics is far too complex and confusing a subject for a seven-year-old even to think about, however gifted he may be; wait till he's seventeen, and if he's still interested, give it a go.
But if you will permit me, I should like to recommend a book for you to read. The book is Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!. The author, Richard Feynman, won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1965 for his work in quantum electrodynamics, the mathematics of interactions between particles at the quantum level.
I'm recommending it to you for a number of reasons. The most important of these is that Feynman was very lucky to have had a father who not only realized that his son was unusually gifted, but set himself to nurture that gift in the most amazing way. The elder Feynman was himself a clever man, though not scientifically gifted; and what he did was, whenever his son showed curiosity about something, he'd help him learn more about that subject in whatever way he could, no matter how unorthodox. Thus, when young Richard got interested in probabilities, Feynman Senior took him to Coney Island and helped him work out all the number-related scams going on there... there are a few good stories like that in the book and they may give you a few ideas for helping your own gifted son along. That's the first reason.
Additionally, it's a book that illustrates how the scientific mind works - the way it looks at the world and the things that it is interested in. These are things that aren't always clear to a nonscientist. And I think a knowledge of how scientists think will be useful to you in your efforts to help your son develop his potential - whether, in the end, he turns out to be scientifically inclined or not. That's the second reason.
Thirdly, the book shows (perhaps a bit too vividly) how much fun a life in science can be.
Fourth and lastly, the book contains a wonderful chapter called Cargo Cult Science in which the difference between real science and the nonsensical waffle of pseudoscience is made transparently clear. Our friend Zepherian should read it; he could learn much from it. But I don't suppose he'd care to.
Richard Feynman wasn't the pleasantest of people. Though fundamentally a good and kindly man, he could be quite obnoxious - a smart-alec, know-it-all practical joker who liked making other people look stupid and nursed an unhealthy fascination for the shadier side of life . He was, in his own words, a 'curious character' - even for a Nobel Prize-winning physicist. All that must have made him a hard man to live and work with - but it makes for a very entertaining book and one which, incidentally, you can read online here.
Enjoy!
[edit on 2-12-2008 by Astyanax]
reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 02:33 AM by stander
reply to post by Astyanax
A bright mind is not recognized by the amount of knowledge it stores; it manifests itself by the type of questions it asks.
If a kid conforms and never asks a question about the color of the sky, don't ask the kid about it. Don't you wonder about . . . ? is the opposite of what the "blue sky question" is known for.
Sometimes parents try to grow a genius in a green house by imposing, but wild cherry tastes the best.
A bright mind is not recognized by the amount of knowledge it stores; it manifests itself by the type of questions it asks.
If a kid conforms and never asks a question about the color of the sky, don't ask the kid about it. Don't you wonder about . . . ? is the opposite of what the "blue sky question" is known for.
Sometimes parents try to grow a genius in a green house by imposing, but wild cherry tastes the best.
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