An open letter to Creationists

We were Invited But how do we deal with Ignorance ???

I offered the Answers but I get abuse instead...

I guess you will just have to be patient and wait won't you????

No sense in talking on this thread only Ignorance here I guess ????

Good luck all in your Theories......

Peace....

by using common sense and logic and research and focusing on reality not fantasy

your answers didnt answer they relied on logical fallacy and word games, several times when we have spoken ive asked you to review and redo to exclude these so we can really discuss them

no not really

hahahah yes theres a lot of it

but luckily theres a few voices of logic around here and id like to be so bold as to include myself inthat group

well they are proven if they are thoeries so no need for luck

were working on it

You are all making the same mistake.
You with your finite minds are assuming that there had to be a beginning.

When you look out at the night sky and you see all the stars that they tell us are light years away, can you as you look out there, just let your gaze go further and further out. As it goes out even further can you conceptualize that there is no end. It just keeps on going, going, going
That is where the beginning is. It is infinite. There was no beginning.
Everything that is always was, just like endless space. It is beyond your comprehension.
Accept what is, quit spinning your wheels and just be happy.

to the universe in its present state yes, thats no assumption its based on testing and rational logic conclusions based on those tests

but the fact you think there is no ende does not mean there is no end

it is expanding which means it cant already be infinate


in its present state there was, but that doesnt not mean it wasnt here in another form before, we simply cant know at this stage

no it wasnt, id like to see some evidence of this claim

but it isnt endless unless you have evidence of this also

but not yours? what a remarkable coincidence

i do

i am happy and id rather be happy knowing then happy becasue i dontcare to know

[edit on 13/12/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by OhZone

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well that all depends...

If you are speaking of the Universe... the universe IS finite...

However if you are speaking of the Cosmos... which is everything... (including things beyond our universe) I will agree.

I see, so get huffy if people do not answer your quesions right away as you asked but run off when someone poses the same situation onto you. Thanks for taking the time to help me understand. This place is always enlightening.

reply to post by nj2day

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Cosmos is the universe - all matter, energy, and space. The two are synonyms.

reply to post by dave420

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Yes, and No... not so much anymore...

Since the theories on the existence of other universes has came along... the Term Cosmos has been more or less used to describe everything... where the term Universe has been more or less adapted to mean our universe...

To noobfun,
"but the fact you think there is no ende does not mean there is no end "
If there is and end, tell me what is on the other side of it.

If the universe is expaning then there must be no end to space or it could not keep expanding now, could it? If space is not endless, then there must be something on the other side of it. Tell me what you think is there. Guess, speculate, theorize.

You only think that there has to be a beginning because that is the way your finite mind works.

There is no evidence for the no beginning & no end, that you are capable of understanding. Humans just are not built that way.

I didn't say I understood it all. No one does. They cannot.

OK nj2, If you want to get down to definitions, I agree with you. I think of "universe" as the all.

reply to post by FSBlueApocalypse

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First you have to create something before it evolves.
You can't create something without intelligent design.

The argument is pointless when both are pieces of the same puzzle. You cant have one without the other.

who says? You? Is it just possible that the human brain cannot fully understand the concept of infinite?

But if everything must have been created, you are entering into a infinite regression argument... Meaning, if the universe HAD to have been created... who created the creator?



who said anything was created?




Your argument is pointless... if you are going to decree that the creator didn't have a need to be created... then why argue that the cosmos needed a creator?

I'm trying to decide if you're taking a stab at cosmology, abiogenesis, or evolution here...

who says there has to be anything?

space is whats expanding space is our universe so yes it theoiretically could continue to expand until it runs out of energy then just sits there

why must there?

no ill wait until we have a means to find out before i jus start making things up

but your mind isnt finite then as you can see beyond that .... which it isnt is it?

so your drawing a false analogy based purley on the fact you want somthing to be there so there fore you attack my refusal to just invent somthing like you have

the universe is of a finite age and is expanding meaning in the past it was much smaller

im sure Steven hawkins and all other theoretical physacists who deal with this would disagree

if the universe is expanding and we could rewind time then everything would get closer and compact

now we have to think of an explanation what could have caused the universe to still be expanding after 14 billion years and the answer is the big bang, way back when before it started expanding everything was compacted into a singularity, we dont know what formed it yet but ALL the evidence points that way

i agree

but you say you dont understand it but then ignore the reasonable testable logical explanations and go with something thats unsupported and all the evidence points away from

which is wrong

and that isnt what NJ said, NJ agree's with me on the universe expanding and bieng finite, what you should have said there was cosmos

reply to post by angel of lightangelo

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Sorry this was not directed at you, but it is difficult to listen to the arrogance of the ignorant, I think it is better to leave those who can't accept themselves or are able to advance themselves to anything worthwhile...

But these sort of people are just a complete waist of time and never come to anything worth while.

I can understand why other intelligent people, don't wish to join there misguided sect....

They are really, only trying to justify their own ignorance....

They have don this superbly, so there is no point in tolerating Ignorance...

In fact I feel ashamed that I have tolerated such Ignorance in these Stereotypes for as Long as I have.

It is better that I remain with those more educated and are years beyond the arrogant Ignorance here....

When they become Educated that is if they can, then just perhaps they may find a way to find knowledge....

I just see them going round and round, resolving nothing at all, making bold speeches in arrogant ignorance, blinded by their own self importance....

This only displays Ignorance and frankly I have do desire at all to fall to their Level.

So I will leave this thread leaving them to their Emptiness....

[edit on 13-12-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

And why would we need to?



Why would they need to?




umm... no, that's really not evolution.
That's what creationists like to believe evolution is...
Review what evolution is and not what you want it to be, then we'll talk.

I don't remember if this was the thread I posted this in before... but here... this will help:

www.hawking.org.uk...

This is a lecture by Steven Hawking on the origin of life, and how intelligent life evolved...

Its a VERY good lecture... for those who chose to read.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

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Well obviously anything that 'created' us would have to be more complex than us, therefor creating a bigger problem than any "God" (however you choose to define that) would solve.

You seem to think you have a check mate as no one knows where the laws that govern things came from, but what about the laws that govern your god? They would have to be infinitely more complex. How would you answer that?
"god's always existed" won't cut it...

reply to post by TruthParadox

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I would like to add a quick point to your argument TP:

The absence of universal constants or "rules" as you put it, would create a new Rule: Entropy/Chaos...

This means that even if there was no "god" to write the rules as you suggest... there would still be rules!

If rules can exist without this god... then why must we say he assigned them to begin with!

Indeed, thus the always entertaining "God did it".
However, some people do seek the answers, and I wouldn't consider it wise to argue against these people when you're content with your own scope of reality.

That is possibly one of the best quotes I've seen here on ATS TP!

Good stuff!

I wish I could star that like 10 times...

Time does have a beginning, as time is a dimension in our Universe, which had a beginning.
However, many scientists believe (myself included... I actually wrote a 2 page theory I called the "infinite universe theory" which I later found out was already the name of a theory ) that our universe is a bubble so to speak with 'infinity' on the outside of this bubble.



We can't see the end and never can, as the speed of light is not fast enough for us to see it...
Our universe would be very different if it were infinite...