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reply posted on 26-1-2009 @ 02:35 PM by Rufuz
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Originally posted by Phoebus
Eurofighter dropped out quite early in the "end race" and proclaimed that the winner was allready chosen.
The information posted by phoebus is not complete this is what happend with eurofighter.
The talks where suspended due to norway is to friendly with the US program. and the germans did not like that. neither did the eurofighter consortium.
also they did not want to waste time acording if you read this you will understand. Also Eurofighter did not want to use more money on Norway /
Denmark due to they ment that the sales had been riged with the americans all the time, becouse norway had pumped in billions of Dollars. its a news
artice from "The herald"
The Herald December 21, 2007
Eurofighter suspends talks with Norway and Denmark in contest to supply new generation jets
The Associated Press
Published: December 21, 2007
OSLO, Norway: Eurofighter has suspended talks with Norway and Denmark over supplying fighter jets to replace the Nordic nations' aging F-16s, the
jet's builder said Friday.
The European EADS consortium, which makes the Eurofighter Typhoon, said it was "not comfortable" with the NATO-member countries' bidding process in
competing with the U.S.-led F-35 Joint Strike Fighter project.
EADS has been competing with Sweden's JAS Gripen and the U.S.-led consortium over a contract worth at least 60 billion kroner (US$10.7 billion,
euro7.6 billion) to provide 48 jet fighters to Norway. They are also vying for contracts to replace Denmark's 68 F-16 fighters.
According to Norwegian news media, Eurofighter complained that it was not a real competition because Oslo favors the U.S. project.
EADS spokesman Theodor Benien declined to discuss details of the decision to suspend talks, saying only there had been changes in the timing and
structure of the bidding process.
"What I can say is that the Eurofighter consortium has made a decision to suspend the fighter replacement talks with Norway and Denmark," Benien
said by telephone from EADS Military Aircraft's offices in Munich, Germany. He said ministries of defense in both countries had been informed of the
decision this week.
According to the Norwegian state radio network NRK, the Eurofighter consortium believes the bidding process has been changed to accommodate the Joint
Strike Fighter consortium, led by Lockheed Martin Corp.
Norway's Deputy Defense Minister Espen Barth Eide denied any favoritism.
"We have no understanding for the claims that the competition rules have been changed," Barth Eide said on NRK. "We are, of course, open for a
dialogue with Eurofighter, but seen no need to change the rules of the game."
A Danish defense ministry statement said the country's military would continue its evaluation of the two remaining candidates, and said it was open
to Eurofighter choosing to resume involvement in the process.
Gripen International, which is part of the Saab AB group, said the group has no plans to withdraw from negotiations with Norway or Denmark, spokesman
Owe Wagermark said.
"We have no reason to. We trust the processes in both Denmark and Norway," Wagermark said.
Norway is expected to decide which jets to buy as early as next year, while Denmark plans to pick no later than 2009.
[edit on 26-1-2009 by Rufuz]
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reply posted on 14-3-2009 @ 06:51 PM by Phoebus
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The price of these planes is allready going threw the roof.
The price for one (1) single JSF F-35 is now 1 Billion SVE-kr, and that is about twice the amount then the prise of a JAS Gripen.
This is direct purchuse prices, direct from factory.
This is by all means....insane.
The Norwegian goverment is in may, reconsiddering the agreement with Lockheed Martin, or desiding to disolve the partnership and the purchuse.
Remember, the Norwegian goverment will only sign the agreement when the first working plane is delivered to Norway, and that it has been found in
working order, and that they deliver all the planes to agreed prices, as promised by the boss of Lockheed Martin (read primary article).
Source in Norwegian:
www.aftenposten.no...
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reply posted on 17-3-2009 @ 04:29 AM by C0bzz
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The comparative analysis has shown that the expected maximum noise levels of the JSF and the Saab Gripen NG hardly avoid one another. With full power,
the maximum expected noise 109 dB (A) for the Saab Gripen NG at 110 dB (A) for the JSF. With afterburner are the values respectively 114 dB (A) and
115 dB (A). For the current Dutch F-16, the results of recent measurements from 104 to 107 dB (A) in full and 111 to 114 dB (A) with afterburner.
This maximum noise levels will only occur for a few seconds and the differences between the two devices are negligible. Determine the noise is not so
much the noise but also the means of launching and landing, and the number of flights. The JSF used much less often than the afterburner F-16 because
the JSF armaments internal meevoert. The F-16 and Saab Gripen NG carry their weapons under the wings. This gives a bit more aerodynamic. Therefore,
these devices more often (more than half of take-offs) the afterburner on. The JSF has a larger radius, which in the normal exercise less-offs and
landings are required.
The difference in noise levels between the JSF and Saab Gripen NG is thus 1 decibel. This is the human ear is hardly noticeable.
translate.google.com...
Bevenveel%2Bherrie.html&sl=nl&tl=en
Also, how much is the above price in USD THEN YEAR, what year, what's included, and why should I believe it any more than the other TEN cost
estimates for the F-35? And why is it more credible than the majority that say 80-95 million? Can I guess who starred the above posts?  Why has GAO
now changed it's mind?
People shouldn't be so trusting of GAO and other auditor reports. Its important to look at the methodology behind what they say. In the case of
the F-35 the GAO's methodology is to compare the development project to that used by the F-22 and Super Hornet. According to the GAO the F-35 would
be in a lot of trouble if it was developed in the same way the F-22 and the Super Hornet were. Which is probably a fair call, but does it have any
relevance? The F-35 is NOT being developed in the same way as the F-22 and the Super Hornet, it is being developed with a 10-15 year advance in
technology which is allowing for far more precise computer modelling and software writing. The GAO says using simualtion for 83% of the aircraft's
development is unproven but the F-35 PEO are saying that every flight test is validating the simulation assessment in ways that have never been seen
before. So either the accountants at the GAO are out of date or the thousands of engineers at F-35 are misleading everyone else. There are some people
willing to beleive the later but I would suggest the former is far more accurate.
Abraham Gubler, (DT).
GAO also had the same problems in comprehending how Virginas were benched against the 688's....
[edit on 17/3/2009 by C0bzz]
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reply posted on 18-3-2009 @ 11:33 AM by Zaphod58
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The UK signed for their first three aircraft to support the F-35 IOT&E testing. Their first aircraft will come from the third low-rate initial
production batch, and are scheduled to be delivered in 2011. They will be assigned to the test team in the United States for IOT&E testing.
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reply posted on 18-3-2009 @ 12:42 PM by Harlequin
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reply to post by Zaphod58
www.flightglobal.com...
^^
actually found a snippet of interest:
To be acquired under its Joint Combat Aircraft project, the UK's future F-35Bs will replace its current BAE Systems Harrier GR7/9s, operated
by the Royal Air Force/Royal Navy Joint Force Harrier organisation. Up to 138 of the aircraft are expected to be purchased
bold is mine - the figure of 138 is down on 150 quoted previously
[edit on 18/3/09 by Harlequin]
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reply posted on 18-3-2009 @ 01:33 PM by Zaphod58
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reply to post by Harlequin
Actually, other sources first, them second. They're great for confirming things for me.
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reply posted on 21-3-2009 @ 04:12 AM by merka
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Originally posted by Phoebus
The price for one (1) single JSF F-35 is now 1 Billion SVE-kr, and that is about twice the amount then the prise of a JAS Gripen.
This is direct purchuse prices, direct from factory.
This is by all means....insane.
Of course its insane. What's the point to begin with using a stealth attack plane?
- If Norway find the planes usefull, that means someone attacked them. That someone would probably be Russia and Norway was just nuked to oblivion.
- If Norway doesnt find the planes usefull they have spent 20+ years funneling money straight from the prints into a shredder.
I suppose the only real use with the planes is if Norway plan to attack Sweden or possibly Denmark.
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reply posted on 20-6-2009 @ 08:58 AM by Phoebus
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This is quickly becoming the US versjon of the German tale - "The Mouse that shouted too high - story of the German tank, Pz 8 Mouse"
Ok, latest update:
The price is now set to 80 Million USD for 1. JSF - Translated to Swedish currency is - 651 192 000,00 SEK (527 248 000,00 NOK), this is by the boss
of the JSF program, David Heinz.
Now, this is a tad.....higher then the Norwegian goverment's estimate of 355 892 400,00 NOK (54 000 000,00 USD) they have made for each plane.
And still, were not adding the cost of influation so the previous estimate of 1 000 000 000,00 NOK that i'we made earlyer in this tread, is closing
at alarming rate, and this seems to be the biggest joke of all modern times, only beaten by the German supertank, Mouse.
Story - Norwegian artickle:
Sjefen for utviklingen av kampflyet JSF tror prislappen per fly vil bli på 80 millioner dollar. Det er 50 prosent mer enn norske myndigheters
anslag.
Les også:
JSF-sjefen David Heinz uttaler seg om flyprisen til avisa Show News, som igjen siteres av KlassekampenKlassekampen. Den amerikanske generalen sier han
ikke kjenner igjen det norske regnestykket som konkluderer med at anskaffelsesprisen per fly trolig vil bli på 54 millioner dollar. Han regner med å
kunne presentere en fastpris for flyene i 2012, men understreker at det fortsatt er usikkert hva de samlede kostnadene vil bli til slutt.
Dollarkurs
Forsvarsdepartementet i Norge påpeker at det ser ut til at Heinz kommenterer kostnadene per fly noen år fram i tid, og at dette har betydning for
regnestykket. Videre minner departementet om at valg av dollarkurs har stor betydning når de ulike anslagene skal sammenlignes.
Saken om JSF-prisen i Show News er skrevet av Robert Hewson, redaktør for tidsskriftet Jane’s Defence Weekly. Ifølge Klassekampen mottok han nylig
en pris for en nyhetssak om striden rundt de norske beregningene av hva flyet vil koste.
– Utrolige uttalelser
– Den norske regjeringen har stått for noen utrolig uttalelser uten rot i virkeligheten, sier Hewson til Klassekampen.
Han mener spriket mellom opplysningene fra general David Heinz og norske myndigheter er oppsiktsvekkende. Videre sier Hewson at han er sikker på at
det svenske flyet Gripen NG ville vært langt billigere for Norge enn JSF.
Regjeringen besluttet i fjor høst å kjøpe amerikanske kampfly av typen Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), og forkastet dermed Gripen. JSF er også kjent
som F-35 Lightning II.
(© NTB)
Source - Norwegian:
www.aftenposten.no...
At the same time, more and more political parties in Norway, is starting to really re-think about a rematch of the JSF program, as the US estimates is
getting higher and higher, while the Swedish Grippen, stil staying at the same price it offered last time to Norway, and this includes startup help
for Norwegian companys to continue improve the Grippen fighter.
The leftwing party Socialistic Left (SV in Norway) is one of the latest parties that want's to reconsidder the JSF agreement, and even the leftwing
Frp, want's to reconsidder the goverments action in the JSF case.
Source - Norwegian:
www.klassekampen.no...
[edit on 20-6-2009 by Phoebus]
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reply posted on 22-6-2009 @ 05:17 PM by Ivar_Karlsen
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reply to post by Phoebus
It's a good thing that the Norwegian goverment is looking for a worthy replacement for the F16 despite the price (we can afford it).
It shows me that they won't do the same mistake as before WW2, to think that noone will attack us, so we don't need an army.
The leftwing party Socialistic Left (SV in Norway) is one of the latest parties that want's to reconsidder the JSF agreement, and even the leftwing
Frp, want's to reconsidder the goverments action in the JSF case.
Well, they will be gone by the end of this year, so their opinion won't count.
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reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 08:17 AM by Hellmutt
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Originally posted by Phoebus
and even the leftwing Frp
I'm sure you meant right-wing  The FRP is rightwing.
The JSF will be a very very expensive plane. I'm sure Norway can afford it, but I hope they'll get something for all the money they've invested. It
would be a pity if it all went down the drain with nothing in return. And then when they get these planes, Sweden and Denmark better watch out, always
talk nice about Norway, and make sure to give them 12 points for the Eurovision Song Contest every year... Or else... 
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reply posted on 29-6-2009 @ 11:37 AM by Phoebus
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There seems to be more comming aswell...
Somehow, there is an agreement between US and Norway, that the price is set, and that all other countrys have the original price.
I.E., the Israeli F-35, the same plane as the Norwegian, is costing almost twice as much...
and the Israeli is about to cut the price in a deal to make theire own wing's for the plane, now this sounds so good, that the Norwegian goverment
might actually jump on the same bandwagon, Norwegian plane, made in the US, with Israeli wing's...
a short recap from the Norwegian article:
a employee in the Israeli army has informed that Israel Aerospace Industries - will make the wing's for Israel's F-35, this info was slipped to
Jane’s Defence Weekly.
The idea of that a peacefull nation as Norway, to get Isreali wing's on it's fighter, might actually put the hole sale on holt, and we might be inn
for a new round of "Norways next-gen fighter", perhaps we should invite some russian plane manufacturers aswell???
I peronally like a bonding agreemen like a MIG-29 VT/SU-35 with nato arms.
Source - Norwegian:
e24.no...
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reply posted on 29-6-2009 @ 01:35 PM by Harlequin
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make the wings in israel?
like LOL?
not gonna happen
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reply posted on 30-10-2009 @ 07:36 AM by Hellmutt
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