Obama set to expand War on Terror to include your guns

This really not a big surprise.

One of the lynch pins of the Democratic party is that gun ownership is "bad." Obama isn't anything if not the stereotypical Democrat. This doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Also, one of the aim of TPTB is to have a defenseless constituiency. That has been the aim for quite some time. After all, there is nothing to fear from a populace that has no way of defending itself.

First of all the second amendment was put into place to allow the people to take back their country if ever things ran aground. As long as there is government there will be a need for the second amendment.

The government work for the people, not the other way around. There is no need for them to be "uneasy" unless they are over stepping their boundaries, which obviously they are.

If you want to really be technical about it the government murders far more people with their military actions around the world than the law biding citizens in the US.

When I was growing up, every 10-year-old had a rifle and ammo in their closet. We did not have problems with security and damn little crime.

Now we have governments like the US -- smuggling in cocaine and heroin -- & feeding this crap to our kids. Now we have corporate owned broadcast media and video games -- where ultra violence is glorified but physical intimacy is taboo. When we couple these things with the intentional breakup of the family and the empowering of the nanny superstate and we wind up with some individuals acting out. Small wonder. Also, I'm quite sure some of these individuals acting out are under the direction of the state - like undercover police starting violence at protests.

The negatives we see every day are the result of concentration of too much power in the hands of mindless idiots that constitute the State. I would personally feel ten times safer if we disassembled the superstate and re-empowered the individual with firearms training from an early age.

You may be comfortable with a nanny superstate but I would feel much better if the citizens had the wherewithall to resist oppression. Over the last 8 years, some of our people and others have been subjected to serious tyranny. I can't help but wonder what will be the straw that breaks the camels back.....

reply to post by Raud

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I wish to reply to this with a quote:

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States."



[edit on 20-11-2008 by FewWorldOrder]

It wouldn't stop anything. Switch blades are illegal in my state and I can walk just a few feet from where I live and tell the guy I want something from the back and he will sell it to me.

Just like an army surplus store you know the right people and they trust you, you can get anything.

reply to post by Raud
[To me, guns mean nothing but trouble. I mean, look at all the statistics, look at the statistics of countries outside yours with strict laws.]

In Canada, we've noticed an dramatic increase in gun violence... from unregistered firearms! There are club shootings, street shootings...

I am talking about criminal groups that manage to smuggle in guns from countries like Israel, Russia, America, China, among others.... Countries with big criminal groups.

What does the average law abiding citizen have to protect themselves from these thugs who one day will steal and rape their children with reckless abandon when the SHTF and the police melts away like butter on a hot potato?

Nothing!

reply to post by 44soulslayer

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Pew!

Now I read the debate, and I am thankful for your tip once again!

Even though you seem to have won that one, I still, personally think you lost. Too bad "Bud" lost his focus a little at the end there.

Furtermore I guess I stepped into quite the quagmire here.

Consider me the cat who chased a rat too far, just to end up in a hive of them.

I will not continue arguing this upsetting topic anymore, but I am still the cat and you are still the rats.

Good luck with that. I'm outta here.

Peace to you...if that is really what you are into.

reply to post by TheFreeBird

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TheFreeBird, +1! Exactly right! I'm glad to find some Patriots still following the guiding wisdom of our Founding Fathers. I too am a proud gun owner, and a Concealed Carry Permit holder, and I am always amazed that people can somehow convince themselves that making it harder for the law abiding citizen to purchase/possess firearms legally would have any impact whatsoever on a criminal's ability to gain access to guns, or harm people in general.

Criminals don't need to buy guns legally, they either already have them, or have access to black market stockpiles. All a gun ban/restriction would do is embolden criminals (and TPTB) to commit more crime against the lawful people who would be made completely defenseless by adhearing to restrictive gun laws.

Think of the single mother with children to provide for, when three crackheads bust down her door and rob, rape, and murder her and her children. Criminals don't need guns to hurt/kill people. Honest, law abiding people need some form of self-defense that levels the odds, so a weaker person can defend themselves and loved ones against a single, or multiple attackers.

If you think you're truly protected by Law Enforcement, you're insane, just ask any Cop and they'll tell you they can't physically be everywhere at once and even if they could, it's wrong to expect another human being to put his/her life in danger because you were incapable of protecting yourself and your loved ones...

How would you suggest a pregnant women protect herself and her unborn child against a more powerful attacker, or several attackers? Karate? What if they have knives or clubs? There is no argument that could convince me to say she should be left to fend for herself when the tool she needs to preserve her and her child's lives is still an inaliable right, protected by our Constitution. A gun. As far as I'm concerned anyone (criminal, civilian, LE, Military, or Government official) who tries to limit my ability to protect myself, from ANYONE is directly threatening my life and the lives of my loved ones.

Only when LE and Military feel safe and secure without firearms, would I even consider not carrying my .45 on a daily basis. But I would never allow myself to be totally disarmed, by anyone. Period.

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-Mahatma Gandhi

"(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
-James Madison, The Federalist Number 46

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States."
-Noah Webster (1758-1843) American patriot and scholar, author of the 1806 edition of the dictionary that bears his name.

"[Tyranny cannot be safe] without a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace."
-James Madison, In his autobiography

As a Brit who now lives in Texas, and owns guns, I find it laughable that the U.K. government doesn't trust it's own citizens with arms. What's even funnier is there are plenty of criminals who have guns, and they still have gun crime! The same with every country in Europe.
And guns don't fire themselves - they need someone operating them to cause injury; Just like a knife does. You want us to ban all knives? Cars kill thousands every year, shall we ban them too? What about breweries and distillers and tobacco manufacturers?
A gun is a good tool for battle. It is also a good tool for hunting. It is also a great tool for target shooting, and for a lot of Americans, having a pistol or a rifle is the normality, especially here in Texas. It also helps explain why car theft and home burgalry is so low here; they serve as a very good crime deterrent.

I'm sorry,


But what's this about "war on terror"


War on terror is a redicoulous terminology.


8 years of war on terror propaganda, and i see this thread. America will they ever learn

39 years of secterian violence. Ireland, will they ever learn.

What in the hell makes any of you gun conrol freaks think that by taking away my right to have guns and my right to protect myself and my family and my property is going to prevent criminals and terrorists from getting their guns?? HUH??

What rock fell on your head and knocked out the brains????

All the gun control fanatics will be the first to scream bloody murder when all guns are taken away and their house gets broken into and they are looking down the barrel of a gun held by the crook laughing their heads off.

What are you all going to say then eh??.."how did you get your gun Mr. Criminal, I thought we took away everyone's guns?"


PFFT!!! Better get your heads out of your rear side and wake the F up.


Cheers!!!

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

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Not allow gun shows, especially not to be able to purchase firearms.

That is totally against the constitution. I know that amendment was created over 200 years ago due to fighting the British, but every individual regardless should be able to purchase a firearm, given that they have the right background credentials. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. I know many individuals with legally purchased firearms, but they do not going around shooting people randomly.

Firearms should be allowed on the basis of severe government oppression or the upheaval of military coupes, or personal defense.

Given that ramble,

Peace to all

Bubbapug1985

A right is that which no man may take away. Make a law to take my gun and I'll obtain one the same way the criminals do- I have connections, I can get good stuff, from any Country, but the US Beaurocrats/ Industrialists/ Military/ and Corporate lot seem to have the best underground market (see the hypocrisy there). If I get caught, fine I'll pay the penalty. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It's been my experience these types are legally as formidable and corrupt as the criminal gangs and what not the finance and work with, so if you trust government you're a fool. Even the Founding Fathers knew not to trust government..GOOGLE the Federalist Papers. Oh, and the US Founders felt it was a right, as was explained in the Federalist Papers which summarized their intentions for the US Constitution. A well armed Militia of the people (not an army or a group of militants who call themselves Militias, but private Citizens one and all, to "stave off an overbearing government." Further, the declaration of Independance from the Monarchy of the Royalty of England's Kingdom declares that it is the "right, duty, and obligation of every Citizen to alter, modify, or abolish that government which fails to secure the blessings of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" for her Citizens, if no other form of reDress is available. That's who. And if you're not American, sucks to be you, maybe you might want to get it included in your Constitutions and laws as well. And no US law can infringe on our rights secured by the Declaration of Independance, and the US Constitution of 1776 which it inspired, or the resultant Bill of Rights based on it's Authority.
Anyways. As to statistics: The Wild Wild West for one. There were plenty of guns, but, not alot of Outlaws. In fact, there was so little crime that when it did occur it was national news. Take Billy the Kid. Horse Theif turned Celebrity. For what? Stealing a horse. Or, how aboutFrank & Jesse James, famous for the first daylight robbery of a US Bank. They didn't take a record breaking amount of cash, nothing spectacular. Sure, they all shot some people, but, it wasn't common, so the became notorious. Jump ahead to modern Florida, one of their cities (I forget which) has the record #1 highest crime rate in the country, for many years running. Frustrated the mayor requires all homes to own and be trained in firearms, offering discounts for those who train towards their firearms purchase, those who failed to comply were to pay 500$ each year of non- compliance. While the Test Model Program was allowed to operate, crime dropped ranking the city one of the lowest US cities having crime.

reply to post by Raud

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If Americans didn't own guns in the late 1700's, we would still be under British rule.
Guns are a safeguard to prevent our country from being taken over by demigods. The reason Europeans have been overrun so many times was BECAUSE you didn't have guns to repel the invaders.
The day may come when patriotic Americans have to take back their country.

reply to post by PhyberDragon

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Here I'll save you the work: www.foundingfathers.info...
[The FP's begin with what could eerily apply today]

[FP#6 Opens out with more of what could be applied today]

Yes, I know, how silly of the US.

The Irish have the solution. It's a car full of Semtex.

I wonder how the India thing would have went down if those Citizens had a right to and were packing arms, or packed heat illegally, anyways. More news coverage guns used to prevent crimes or just coverage of the lawsuits of those people from the terrorists' families and the goverment because they shot and killed the terrorists without legal authority to possess a weapon and do so..

Terrorist that want to stage a attack in the US will not buy there guns at gun shows.
They will do the same thing that just happened in Mumbai India they will bring in full auto AK47s from some other country.
www.timesonline.co.uk...

This may be a practice run for a attack on the US
and central and south American are awash with AK47s
Hugo Chavez in Venezuela is a likely source.
The drug cartels are another source.
Even china has tried smuggling in 2000 AK47s
query.nytimes.com...

Banning gun shows would be a joke.
They would change them to accessory and ammo shows or something like that there would still be guns at the shows but you would have to buy them from the dealer after the show at there regular place of business.
Guns are only a small part of what is sold at gun shows.
ammo and gun accessory's are bigger sellers plus repair parts. hunting supplies and scopes,

When i lived in Calif i used to go to gun shows in Nevada and never could buy a gun at them but i got every thing else i needed.


[edit on 29-11-2008 by ANNED]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by ANNED]

When I see the phrase

War on terror, on any article, newspaper, thread, or newsflash.

It's bound to be stupid.........................
Sorry for bumping the thread. But It's about time some American's wake up that this terminolgy is ludricous, hypocritical and stupid. There is no sense or logic to that wording. The use of it, is purely to invoke fear into the masses, nothing more and nothing less. The generlization of it should just be enough to tell you that.(shakes head)

It means, war on war, aggression against aggresser, react to the reactor.
It is one of the most stupid phrases I've ever come across in my 23 year existence. 8 year's of this nonsense. People still use the wording.

Why, sometimes I just look up and just go why......

[edit on 29-11-2008 by mind is the universe]