How can you ask a question about Jesus w/o people thinking its an excuse to preach???, page 2

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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 03:57 AM by defcon5

reply to post by americandingbat

I did not have a problem with anything you have posted, and I am not sure how I gave the impression that I did? Your post were well thought out, well presented, and insightful.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:05 AM by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by defcon5
On the other hand look at this, minutes after posting in this thread someone went over to a thread on a Christian topic simply to put in a off topic, uncalled for, insulting, one line post simply to inflame folks talking about prophecy. No good reason, nothing quality added to the thread, simply a chance to take a knock at Christianity.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But doesn't the actual question actually open to 'knocks at Christianity' or at least some expressions of it?

I posted a one liner myself - I thought it was a relevant point and didn't need expanding on just to make it not a one liner - in that thread. Whether Christians like it or not, holy places aren't the monopoly of Christians. This is something that Christ would have acknowledged himself having existed before the establishment of the Christian church.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:06 AM by defcon5

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

I very seldom see that kind of stuff, that I have noticed, unless someone asked a religious question to begin with. Occasionally you will see some nut who posts strings of bible verses that make absolutely no sense on the topic whatsoever, but its seem fairly rare and I simply ignore it. For that matter I see just as many folk who post song lyrics that are totally off topic as well. Maybe I am just hanging out in different threads then you are.

I mean its hard to bring up Christianity in many topics on ATS, other then perhaps relating them back to prophecies and the current condition of the world. Personally, I try and keep my Christianity posts separate from my posts on other none religious topics. I certainly don’t need to bring up this stuff in a Chemtrail thread, 911, or some such.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:15 AM by Lucid Lunacy

reply to post by defcon5

Indeed. Perhaps we partake in many different threads because I see it all the time. (I have taken note I don't see you in threads too often actually). It is not uncommon. From either side. I will leave my personal opinion as to who is the bigger culprit of the two (Christin<>Non-Christian), locked away in my opinion chamber

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:15 AM by defcon5

reply to post by Merriman Weir

The person is talking about a specific Christian Theology, not simply something that someone finds disgusting. He is translating the word as “disgusting” but its actually “abomination”. I think that most people know that the “Abomination of Desolation” is a purely Christian concept that has nothing to do with where any Christian church is located. It’s a phrase that relates to a specific prophetic Christian warning sign, of an event that historically occurred in 70AD in the Jewish Temple on Mt Zion.

So what does that have to do with what pagans think of Christian Churches?

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:18 AM by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Merriman Weir

The person is talking about a specific Christian Theology, not simply something that someone finds disgusting. He is translating the word as “disgusting” but its actually “abomination”.

Well surely your beef is actually with the person mistranslating then, and not the people commenting on the mistranslation?

EDIT: forgot to add, I made another post in that thread, framed within a Christian context.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Merriman Weir]

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:22 AM by thinkerbel

Originally posted by americandingbat
reply to post by defcon5

edit:

@tinkerbel: BTS stands for BelowTopSecret, which is ATS's more lighthearted sister site. Anything non-conspiracy gets talked about there. It's a lot of fun, I definitely recommend checking it out. You do have to login separately, but your username and password are the same there as here.

[edit on 11/20/08 by americandingbat]

i am thinkerbel your honor... . actually if you hate the traditions of christianity why hate christian people?... me, im a x-tian and im not bragging anyway... I also dont go to churches cause I hate priests and the ceremony... but I believe in one God... that makes me believe im a christian...

If it takes a year to post your explainations please do. Ill leave my work for one year to read those... thank you.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:25 AM by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by thinkerbel
but I believe in one God... that makes me believe im a christian...

In fairness, that makes you monotheistic, not a Christian per se. It's your actual understanding and frame of reference for that "one God" that makes you Christian.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:27 AM by defcon5

reply to post by Merriman Weir

Disgusting thing is a valid translation for abomination, its just that more people are familiar with the term “abomination of desolation” the “the disgusting thing that brings desolation”. I am not sure what Bible he is using, but it is obviously one of the newer translations.

Your other post in there is much more valid, and I don’t entirely disagree with it

, but I have to get back to that a bit later.

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:30 AM by americandingbat

Originally posted by thinkerbel
i am thinkerbel your honor... . actually if u hate the traditions of christianity why hate christian people?... me, im a x-tian and im not bragging anyway... I also dont go to churches cause I hate priests and the ceremony... but I believe in one God... that makes me believe im a christian... If it takes a year to post your explainations please do. Ill leave my work for one year to read those... thank you.

I actually don't hate Jesus, Christians, or Christianity. I don't even hate the Pope, though I could do without most TV evangelists and Mega Church leaders

I was just giving a brief rundown of why there is hatred toward Christians at ATS. I'll leave it to people who really hate christianity to give you the year-long explanation

P.S. – sorry about messing up your name, thinkerbel.

[edit on 11/20/08 by americandingbat]

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:45 AM by megabyte

Originally posted by thinkerbel

Originally posted by defcon5
There is a massive amount of hate toward Christianity on this site. Apparently its OK to preach about New Age Philosophy, UFO’s, Aliens, Pagan Religions, and all sorts of disputed Pseudoscience mumbo-jumbo, but not about Christianity. Of course if you cannot prove that you are talking about a Religious Conspiracy then it gets dumped to BTS anyway.

is true that there is a massive amunt of hate towards christianity on this site?? how come...? and whats BTS by the way...

I have read that anyone who follows a religion must adhere to a religious submission of intellect and will on questions of faith

that is THE number one thing that the rest of us cannot do

this is why Christians cannot convert us and it only annoys us when they try

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 05:03 AM by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by thinkerbel
but I believe in one God... that makes me believe im a christian...

To expand on monotheism as Merriman Weir mentioned...

Some argue that there are various forms of monotheism, including:

Henotheism involves devotion to a single God while accepting the existence of other gods. Similarly, monolatrism is the worship of a single deity independent of the ontological claims regarding that deity.

Theism a term that refers to the belief in the existence of God or a divine being.

Deism is a form of monotheism in which it is believed that one God exists. However, a deist rejects the idea that this God intervenes in the world.

Monistic Theism is the type of monotheism found in Hinduism, encompassing pantheistic and panentheistic monism, and at the same time the concept of a personal God.

Pantheism holds that the Universe itself is God. The existence of a transcendent supreme extraneous to nature is denied.

Panentheism, is a form of monistic monotheism which holds that God is all of existence, containing, but not identical to, the Universe. The 'one God' is omnipotent and all-pervading, the universe is part of God, and God is both immanent and transcendent.

Substance monotheism, found in some indigenous African religions, holds that the many gods are different forms of a single underlying substance.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 01:30 PM by dominicus

Thank you everyone for your replies. Very informative and expanding. I've concluded that it works "both ways" and that you will always get people that think that for sure ,100%, a post is setup to preach, even if it genuinely isn't. There is not much that can be done about that. Except maybe for the OP to not say a single word in the rest of the thread?????

As for my reply below, please dont take this as preachy. Its just an explanation for a mistranslation.
reply to post by megabyte

I have read that anyone who follows a religion must adhere to a religious submission of intellect and will on questions of faith that is THE number one thing that the rest of us cannot do

Hey friend,
A religion perhaps, yes. Then again walking the path that Jesus laid out for me personally, I dont see as religion. I would say your statement is very stereotypical and not the case for the whole, besides its misconstrued.

To submit your intellect, is basically to not make your intellect your God. Its a work around trick. If you want to experience God, it wont happen unless the intellect gets out of the way, because God cannot be fathomed by Intellect, i.e. an idea/concept of God is an idea/concept, and not God.

So in a sense submitting intellect & will is a good thing on a spiritual path, because these two have minds of their own and get in the way of deeper things, and when they are submitted ...something grander begins to take place in the mind and heart.

Just to clear things up about that, since I saw it as very one sided.

I love you all very deeply, these threads are great, food for the soul!!!!

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 02:20 PM by megabyte

Originally posted by dominicus
Thank you everyone for your replies. Very informative and expanding. I've concluded that it works "both ways" and that you will always get people that think that for sure ,100%, a post is setup to preach, even if it genuinely isn't. There is not much that can be done about that. Except maybe for the OP to not say a single word in the rest of the thread?????

As for my reply below, please dont take this as preachy. Its just an explanation for a mistranslation.
reply to post by megabyte

I have read that anyone who follows a religion must adhere to a religious submission of intellect and will on questions of faith that is THE number one thing that the rest of us cannot do

Hey friend,
A religion perhaps, yes. Then again walking the path that Jesus laid out for me personally, I dont see as religion. I would say your statement is very stereotypical and not the case for the whole, besides its misconstrued.

To submit your intellect, is basically to not make your intellect your God. Its a work around trick. If you want to experience God, it wont happen unless the intellect gets out of the way, because God cannot be fathomed by Intellect, i.e. an idea/concept of God is an idea/concept, and not God.

So in a sense submitting intellect & will is a good thing on a spiritual path, because these two have minds of their own and get in the way of deeper things, and when they are submitted ...something grander begins to take place in the mind and heart.

Just to clear things up about that, since I saw it as very one sided.

I love you all very deeply, these threads are great, food for the soul!!!!

yes and you have just agreed with my point

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 02:31 PM by megabyte

To submit your intellect, is basically to not make your intellect your God. Its a work around trick. i.e. an idea/concept of God is an idea/concept, and not God.

So in a sense submitting intellect & will is a good thing on a spiritual path, because these two have minds of their own and get in the way of deeper things, and when they are submitted ...something grander begins to take place in the mind and heart.

YESSS -

INTELLECT is my GOD

that is the point

those of us who choose to have intellect as our god cannot be swayed to believe like you do because as you said

If you want to experience God, it wont happen unless the intellect gets out of the way, because God cannot be fathomed by Intellect,

please take note all people who think that those for whom intellect is god can be swayed to set aside intellect and start having faith - it will not happen because we are unable and unwilling to set aside that intellect - no matter what

thank you friend

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:42 PM by moocowman

reply to post by defcon5

Dude with the greatest respect UFO and aliens bigfoot or the spaghetti monster have not yet tried to dictate how I should live and think

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 04:51 PM by moocowman

reply to post by americandingbat

Great post in relation to the why do people hate xtians, yup it did start to go into a sermon

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 05:00 PM by manoffewwords

The problem, I believe, with talking about Jesus is that he has been Religionatized (Sorry, I'm sure there is a better word, but it escapes me at the moment). The worst thing that happened with the life of Jesus is that the Church got their paws into it.

I firmly believe that when Jesus and the Disciples spoke about the Church, they did not have in mind what it has evolved into. Religion/Churches have lost credibility for the same reasons that governments have. Scandals, lusting for power, a disconnect from their congregations.

On top of this, they deliver messages of Peace and Love for your fellow man. But are responsible for more bloodshed, judgementalism, persecution, and general subjegation, than any government has ever been responsible for.

I think the majority of people do not/can not differentiate between Spirituality and Religion, so the message of Jesus gets lost in the mix.

As I said, the worst thing that ever happened to Jesus, was the Church itself.

I do not need God/Jesus guidance delivered to me via a mailman/preacher. I will hold my own conversation with Him, and I would rather be judged on this, than on following the words of any other man/women, even if in the end I am judged wrong for this.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by manoffewwords]

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 05:33 PM by Bnmssnit

reply to post by moocowman

I understand where your coming from.Men and organizations have taken a beatiful thing and corrupted it beyond recognition (fubar)If Jesus were to walk amongst us today I think he would have to agree with what you say.Many wars have been and probably be fought because of religions.We must all awaken and see the spark of god that dwells in all of us

reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 05:36 PM by Supercertari

Because Jesus has always provoked visceral responses. From the moment of his first public preaching people were ready to throw Him off a cliff.

It's a name that will always provoke strong reactions: some pro, some anti.

Ask what questions you want and answers from either extreme speed read in case there is some kernel of information and the rest have a good look at expecially if they are well sourced.

When you read the phrases "the bible was man made", "there's no proof of God", "religion killed more people than anything" etc just yawn and move onto the next post.

Faith and the intellect go marvellously together: theology (obviously), philosophy, science, the arts, etc, etc, are littered with the talents of good and faithful followers of Jesus who used their grey matter quite splendidly. They were even wise enough to know they couldn't, as one person, know everything so willingly submitted their lack of knowledge to the collective knowledge of the sensus fidelium. A bit like the hyper-talented biologist who still trusts his soup to the microwave oven, even though he has no clue how it works, we submit everyday to the wisom of others.

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