Greetings...

I'd like to take a moment to discuss the wonderment of another Biblical prophecy about the Signs of the Last Days Jesus Christ discussed when talking to his followers in private.

In Matthew chapter 24, Jesus' followers ask him to reveal the signs of His return, and that will mark the conclusion of this system of things. In verses 4 through 12 Jesus discusses what will take place just before what He calls the Great Tribulation. The events that he describes are as follows:

4 And in answer Jesus said to them: "Look out that nobody misleads you; 5 for many will come on the basis of my name saying,' I am the Christ', and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified. for these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All of these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. 9 Then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.

In verses 15, 16, and 20 through 22, Jesus states:

15 "Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken through Daniel the Prophet, standing in a Holy Place,(let the reader use discernment,) 16 then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains. 20 Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime, nor on the sabbath day; **** As a side note, this verse is of interest in that, was this Jesus' prediction about Y2K? That very event occurred both in the wintertime and on a saturday - the sabbath day - and it did not occur. many in the year 1999 indeed did flee to the mountains! **** 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved; **** as in, a nuclear holocaust perhaps? **** but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

According to Theologians who have discussed this topic, Jesus here was relating this story to the time when Judea rebelled against the Roman occupation shortly after his death, and when in the year 67 C.E. Jerusalem was besieged by the Roman army, to the point to where the Romans even sacked the Most Holy compartment of the temple, which no common Jew, let alone pagan gentile, had ever seen or been allowed to step foot into.

To the Jews, witnessing a gentile within their most hallowed of locations was a defilement unheard of, relating the phrase "when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken through Daniel the Prophet, standing in a Holy Place" to the very event. Then, as if called away on some urgent mission, the Romans just left, leaving Jerusalem still pretty much in tact. 3 years later, in 70 C.E., the Romans returned and completely obliterated Israel. It was during this 3 year gap that Jesus' followers remembered Jesus' words and indeed fled to the mountains.

Christians believe this account also relates to the future End of the World, and I believe many honest folks reading this post indeed can say that the events portrayed in Jesus' account are ringing exceptionally true to today's events.

Of special note, Jesus stated that there would be a time where people will witness a disgusting thing that causes desolation that will stand in a holy place and that that would be the time to run. Shortly there after the end would occur.

My question is would anyone care to speculate what event and place this would represent today?


[edit on 19-11-2008 by DarkspARCS]

I consider that to mean any organization thats appears to be holy, whether religious (Christian,etc) or non Religious (governments). However, I lean towards it referring to Religions that look "Holy" will be judged.

Well, I can tell you this.

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, and we were taught that the thing you speak of is the UN.

The UN is supposed to outlaw religion, according to bible prophecy, therefore causing Jehovah's Witnesses to be persecuted. Therefore, the UN is evil.

That's all I know.

Regards,

CS

He said he doesn't know, only the Father:


But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Mk13:32

Also, why would he separate himself from sinners for a thousand years?

That's supposed to be a long time?

Also, why would he separate himself from sinners at all? They appear to be his preferred company.

I'm not asking these for you to answer me - this is the only contribution to this thread I'll make.

Why do you need some nineteenth century revenge theology?







[edit on 20-11-2008 by undermind]

NKOTB reunion concert at Disneyworld. How can you not see? The 6th sense and saw 3 and 4? Donald being and ex nazi. It all adds up.

You must understand one thing about what Christ was telling the disciples on that day, and what the disciples misunderstood about it. Look at the flow of the conversation, and you will see that Christ is talking about more than one period of time, but his disciples think he means only one.
First Christ mentions the destruction of the Jewish Temple:

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The Desciples then ask him when that will happen, when Christ will return, and when the world will end. (they are thinking that these will happen at the same time, but they do not):

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Christ then goes on to answer their question, but he never tells them that the events don’t all happen in their lifetime, but only start at that point.

The Abomination of Desolation refers to Emperor Worship that was done in the Jewish Temple under the Roman Legions, but it also can elude to things relating to the later Roman Empire under the Papal system (Pope comes from Pontifex Maximus, a title that was originally held by Roman Emperors), or even today’s worship of self. If you look at Revelations there is much that points to Emperor Worship in several of those verses as well. If you get to the real crux of the issue, it is all about idolatry and putting anything before God, that is even the point of the Mark of the Beast. Acceptance of something that God forbids, being part of the system for worldly comfort or gain. There are many events in the Bible that are cyclical; where God has a similar set of instances happen relating to an earlier event, to prove a point.

In my opinion, based mainly on historicism, the fall of Jerusalem was the beginning of the “End Times”, the final age, the age of the church. It was also the end of the “Age of the Jews”, which is why in some translations you see the disciples ask, “when is the end of an age” instead of the “when is the end of the world”. Maybe a good place for you to start your search is to research the three main school of prophetic interpretation, and go from there. The Schools are:

Historicism: The End started in 70 AD, and continues to the return of Christ.
Futurism: A seven year tribulation period in the Future.
Preterism: All of the Prophecy in the Bible has already happened except the Return of Christ.


[edit on 11/20/2008 by defcon5]

Originally posted by DarkspARCS
The "Disgusting Thing Standing in a Holy Place

It's funny, but I know a lot of pagans who think that whenever they see particular Christian churches.

edit posted to the wrong board...
Sorry!

[edit on 11/20/2008 by defcon5]

Some of those passages mentioned in the OP actually bring to mind the early Protestant movement with how they perceived the Roman Catholic church (and its grip on much of Europe which would tie-in with "Kingdom against Kingdom" and "Nation against Nation") and how the Roman Catholic church perceived Protestants as heretics.

This division was at least one of the elements that influenced the English Civil War - war (and food shortages) seems to be a feature in some of the warnings Jesus makes in those quotes.

The disgusting thing standing in a holy place could be read as the Catholic churches and monasteries.

I'm sure practically everyone will disagree with me on this, but perhaps what's important is how these kinds of texts are open to all kinds of speculation - which includes Christian takes on the matter.

I have never heard the term 'disgusting thing'.

What translation are you using?

Be careful of translations - they change meanings.

I had always heard and been told that the antichrist himself would set himself up in the holiest of places.

The antichrist would actually stand in the holiest of holies in the Jewish temple in Israel and declare himself their saviour. THAT is the ultimate point of the antichrist.

Never heard of 'disgusting thing'.