Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Tesla 'bulbs', solid hemispheres of aluminum, focus incoming charges for
motion in that direction. Not moving the charged craft still has a charge
collection around the bulb in Tesla's Radiant Energy Patent, look it up. Light
come from electrons, look up Edison. That Tesla craft is at plasma voltages
and look that up with the cartels holding on to Tesla's atomic gas physics.

Now, how did I know that you were going to somehow relate this to Tesla? Gosh, I must be getting psychic!

Do you get paid a dollar every time you mention Tesla? Because at this point you must be able to buy a Ferrari with that cash.

Originally posted by eniac
I would like to know how you maintain your constitutions of this being written off as a hoax so quickly, and adamently as well.

To answer your question:

It's simple actually,

If it looks like (explative) and smells like (explative) it must be (explative).

I believe, I just don't believe in nonsense.

Okay

As promised, I made contact with a member of the phoenix fire debt.

Have a friend, who dated a fireman here in Phx, met the guy a few times, after a few days of trying I got a hold of him, sent him the links and had him examine them and ask around his dept.

CONSENSUS of PHX Firemen

It's a Fire

He talked to a buddy of his in West Phx

and confirmed, they have seen this and that it was a FIRE near Surprise that day and they had a guy on crew who remembered it... it was allowed to burn out, it was started by Teenagers partying up there.

ALSO

They are trained in how to respond to a UFO incident, specifically trained for it out here...

I asked him:

So were there any UFO situations to attend to in the time frame

He responded

"No not in the time frame"

I said what does that mean

he responded... by explaining that they were trained to deal with ufo crashes but he had never had any call to but wouldn't speak for the rest of the fire dept and then repeated that It definitely wasn't a fire

and he was on his cell... from work

and at that point in the background I had, firemen, yelling "there wasn't an Effin ufo Jack a$$" and "people need to stay off the mountains at night" and "oooooooo eeeeeeeee oooooooo" in the background until he hung up

It wasn't a fire dept conspiracy, the firemen looked at the picture said it was a fire and Laughed at Me and one of his pals from the est side apparently remembered it as well.

so this use of my time here confirms that "where there is smoke there is usually a FIRE"

He himself said "bro... I know what a fire looks like on the hill at night... I'M A FIREMAN"

so for me... this is settled












[edit on 23-11-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Yeah, I want the sightings to be real too, people act like you debunk in order to dismiss the phenomena, but in reality I LOVE when i can't debunk.

I just took the time to check this out, because I KNEW that no major sighting had gotten past my notice in my town.

I'm a guy who goes cave diving looking for ancient civilizations and aliens, i'm not... NOT a believer, but I can't figure out anything if I don't know what's Not Real

A good debunk isn't proof against anything it's just... one step closer to the truth

Mopusvendictus and milignant,
I truly appreciate your input and efforts towards concluding this event as an other explainable situation, but for me , it has rattled my world to the core, I have seen this thing (At least very close to it) which I have stated in earlier post. I haven't had much luck with getting a hold of Mr. Rob Kritzky via email, so I stepped up my request and decided to contact Mr. Jerry Pippin from "Talk Radio". His website sports the Kratzky sightings to their entirety, and has a few of Rob's sightings in the same web page.
It was short , Sweet and to the point, as emails go, but I need validation of this being a hoax, not he said, she said.
And for IAttackpeople, I thank you for that thread, but it leads me to nothing other than a "Seagull/pelican" picture of it in flight. Thanks for trying though.
If by chance you are all right about this being a debunk-able and explainable event, "I will never talk of my experience again." This really caught me off guard though, to see that "thing" again.

Originally posted by Allred5923
Mopusvendictus and milignant,
I truly appreciate your input and efforts towards concluding this event as an other explainable situation, but for me , it has rattled my world to the core, I have seen this thing (At least very close to it)

Yes, it rattles my core everytime I see it as well. I just worry if i'll have to get evacuated again the next time I see it.

I hate it when the Millenium Falcon decides to hover over our moutain sides and ignites the landscape with it's warp drive.

Obviously, there is nothing more convincing to another than a story told to another then another.

3rd party stories must be genuine.

Let's deny reality and accept fish stories.

I once knew this guy who had a friend that his cousin told him.....

I believed him!!!!!

Originally posted by malignant_tumor
Obviously, there is nothing more convincing to another than a story told to another then another.

You must have not read all the posts on this thread, I was not a second or third person for my sighting in AZ, And from rereading all of your input and my responses, "You are stuck on your ideals of what this is too you."
My sighting was first hand, uncannily familiar to this object, unfortunately, "I didn't have a camera/video recorder/pic. cell phone or any recording device, and seeing this "Thing" (for lack of a better analogy) again after so many years, huh.."You just don't see the big picture as I do see it from my prospective."

3rd party stories must be genuine.

Once again, "Your analogy of this is 'Wrong' and it wasn't the "Third Party" story in my case, it was my own "Personal experience" that got me to investigate this sighting and footage further, something you decided not to do, and for your own "Personal reasons."

Let's deny reality and accept fish stories.

"I have denied 'Ignorance' and it has led me to possible answers for what I had seen that evening in AZ, and there was no fish or fish story involved in my episode."

I once knew this guy who had a friend that his cousin told him.....

Your banter is endless, you have everything all figured out, "Don't you?" I for one am glad that this thread had came up, it has created the 'Curve' that I needed to validate something that was a "Reality" check for myself, not something I heard through the proverbial "Grapevine" synopsis carried on by a legend or story as you so implied.

I believed him!!!!!

After further investigations, "I am leaning towards the fact that this footage is what I had seen that evening in AZ and 'YES', I do believe him, with the evidences presented, with what I had seen with my own eyes 20+ years ago, indubitably believe Rob's footage is accurate and very authentic, but I will be tracking other bits of information as to better my knowledge and acceptances for this being a "Multiple UFO" sightings in different times and eras and different places of the same object."

Everything you have "ASSUMED" is nothing but slurs and self implied conclusions, you have not did any research to back your testimonies of this being a hoax/brush fire or anything of the like to contribute to this thread, you have been here to give "Your own opinion." Nothing more nothing less, and I wish you luck with that kind of "Acknowledgement" here on the ATS forums, "Doubt it will get you far though."

One more thing malignant,
"Do the research and get back to me, wait, you own your opinions, never mind..."

Yeah but... I did do research and

I also lived on 35th Ave at the time of this alleged photo taking

and the night time footage is from about 5 miles west for the back mtns I picked out to be the same as they appear and firefighters confirmed a fire in the location I believed it was... near Surprise

and the day shot is close to 35th ave, I can tell by th mnts

so now after your last posts and a relook, I can absolutely tell you, there was no UFO by my house that Day

I didn't realize exactly where it supposedly was in Phx until your lost post...

But now DEAD On it can't be, I'd have seen it from my yard at the time.

I wouldn't say, I remember the exact day, but I have kids and don't go outside until evening in summer because of the heat nor at the time was I going anywhere

There's no way i'd have missed it

and I recognize what I see as the mtns silhouettes in night time shot, and it's not the same neighborhood It's surprise and that's where I was told there was a fire

and it's monsoon season, there's lightning every evening, A friend had their palm tree set ablaze in the same time period, not sure if it was the same day, but I recall the issues

I'm sorry my friend

It definitely is not a Ufo


Wish I could say there was even a chance it was, but I WAS THERE, now i'm certain it's a hoax with address.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
Yeah but... I did do research andI also lived on 35th Ave at the time of this alleged photo taking and the night time footage is from about 5 miles west for the back mtns I picked out to be the same as they appear and firefighters confirmed a fire in the location I believed it was... near Surprise

You are telling me that you single handedly have verifiably "proven" that the Kritkausky footage is a provable and undeniable hoax?
Your opinion, or tangible proof?

and the day shot is close to 35th ave, I can tell by th mnts
so now after your last posts and a relook, I can absolutely tell you, there was no UFO by my house that Day

so, you were out side, (The footage was at night) and you didn't see anything other worldly? The same exact night? You should come forth with your finding's to allow the debunking to commence for the rest of the public UFOer's to not be swayed by this particular footage..Ya think?

I didn't realize exactly where it supposedly was in Phx until your lost post...
But now DEAD On it can't be, I'd have seen it from my yard at the time.

I do appreciate your "Self analogy and confirmations" of this event, but there are others that would beg to differ from your findings and analogies, for example:

I personally am convinced it is real and not a brush fire or any other thing but a definite UFO with some evidence of super natural events surroundign these sightings as well.Jerry

That is an excerpt from the email I had received from Jerry Pippin on this event. I am no professional UFO hunter, but if I am sick, I go to the doctor, suppose it goes the same for beliefs of UFOs existing in our midst, and inquiries of such nature.

I wouldn't say, I remember the exact day, but I have kids and don't go outside until evening in summer because of the heat nor at the time was I going anywhere There's no way i'd have missed it and I recognize what I see as the mtns silhouettes in night time shot, and it's not the same neighborhood It's surprise and that's where I was told there was a fire and it's monsoon season, there's lightning every evening, A friend had their palm tree set ablaze in the same time period, not sure if it was the same day, but I recall the issues,I'm sorry my friend, It definitely is not a Ufo, Wish I could say there was even a chance it was, but I WAS THERE, now i'm certain it's a hoax with address.

As for the weather of the vicinity of your area, I am totally aware, I had lived in Tempe AZ for a year and a half when I was a young teenager, back in the mid 70's, and know of the monsoon seasons and aware of typical lightning strikes as you had mentioned.
To make the assumptions on the location of where you live and the angle of the trajectory of the original footage, "Go out and video record the same area at the same angle and post your finds, being's you live "Right there" it should be quite easy, just provide some kind of tangible evidence that thwarts this being an actual sighting with verifiable and undeniable proof."
I have personally went the extra mile for the reasons of self closure of my particular experience, and yet "Here we are." Right where this topic had started, and you have made your point with the Firemen and such, (He said/She said) questionable artifacts to say the least.
Trying to give evidence with your acknowledgement of geographical and local to the sighting and where the footage was initially was taken is all well and good, but nothing more than self accepted as "I didn't see anything myself." scenario.
SO, if you don't mind, "Please use your opportunity to take it upon yourself to get as close to where the original footage was taken and please...Please post it here."
And then we can go from there with your assumptions of the original footage being a hoax.

I am more convinced by my experience back in the mid 80's and the footage presented than with what you are claiming, though, like I had said before, you produce undeniable and unarguable evidence, "I'll be on your side of thoughts."
I do enjoy your insights, and do truly respect your take on this matter, you have been civil and very key to producing some other explanations, but if you would of been with me so many years ago, you would understand that this is not a typical UFO footage chat for me, it is a form of validation from something that had taken place in my life and without any closure of accptances because I had never had any proof of what I had seen.

So, I am intrigued by your constitution of your beliefs, they just fall short for me to write this event off as "Brush Fires".

With respect and understanding,
Allred5923

I want to thank Allred for taking the time to do some actual "digging" here! not only did he recount his own personal sighting for all to read but went ahead and made contact with Jerry- What a great way to deny ignorance! as I'm sure he's done.This is one of the many reasons I like ATS-Good information! You all saw the e-mail this is a genuine lead that I hope will produce more info-Could it be that the alphabet boy's have been keeping this one under wraps? I don't know but that seems pretty obvious to me call me crazy.IMO this one's far from dead