Behold, the black horse of Revelation!

reply to post by dooper

So you're saying the things in Revelation are pretty much complete, correct? I'd definitely like to hear more of your explanations of the seals and trumpets.

TheRedneck

Is there a pattern and a unholy goal with the actions we do?

Well according to Revelations there is quite a lot of evil deeds on "our" agenda in the times to come.

Because "Jesus" is going to unseal some disaster onto us because of it.

Now:
In "reality" We are going to bring this evil upon our selves.
We are in "reality" the once who break the seals. We are going to defy our holy spirit and moral values and bring this onto our selves.

We are the 4 horsemen. In a figure of speech. We are the vision the prophets talk about. We must not forget that.
Who else would it be if it wasn't "us"!

The 4 horsemen will be a reaction to our agenda. That means the horsemen will also change color as we bring forth a new agenda or a new action to the stage. What ever that will be.
Because they dont all come at once. We have to do things for it to happen.
That's common sense and nothing supernatural.

Now some one might think that i am of the track when it comes to God in heaven. Or heaven as a supernatural place. Because some one could read this like there is now heaven or no God.
Since i just give a image of us her on earth. But that's not really the case.
I am just stating have i see the text. Because i live in the real world.

God and Jesus is with us in the wholly spirit. But what i am trying say is that when we break a seal it's because the spirit of Jesus lets us do so.
That's have i see that part of revelations.

Now:
The 4 horsemen and the compass. What dose that mean?
The 4 horsemen will come from 4 different directions. But with a new color every time.
The first horse is white.
What dose that mean!

Is it possible to see that to day. If you look at the world.
This part of the revelation is well written with a lot of information. But can you possibly guess it with the knowledge you have.

Can these horses relate to one and other at any point. Or with something,because they have to. There has got to be a agenda that these fit into.
Because they are written in sequence in revelation.

What is our next move!
The white horse has got to be the action we have to do, to set the stage for the Red horse to come into action.
But what is a white horse.
It has to do with denying what is spiritually right. Because we have to break a seal to make it happen. We are going to do something really evil to bring the white horse to life.

Any input so far?








[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

sorry for this short reply but i cant resist,i havent really read the bible perhaps i should but from what the op wrote it sounds alot like opening up your chakras and getting a kundalini awakening.7 seals on the book opening them one at a time the book of (REVELATION) spiritual awakening.intresting thread .i also take the 4 horseman as the four elements earth ,water ,fire ,air

[edit on 23-11-2008 by capstan]

reply to post by TheRedneck

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So, would you like me to pick up with the seventh seal and continue?

reply to post by dooper
Unless I read wrong, you haven't gotten to the sixth seal yet. Can you start with it and move on through the 7th seal and the 7 trumpets?

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

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Yeah, I did the sixth seal with was parallel with the struggle for power within the Roman Empire, culminating with the emergence of Constantine.

THE SEVENTH SEAL

After this. After the opening of the sixth seal I saw four angels, and another angel having the seal of God. The seal of God on the forehead would be visible to everyone; hence the seal in the forehead has been understood to be the public confession and profession that Christ was the Son of the Living God.

All Christians belonging to the spiritual Israel, but note the specifics mentioned here. 1. Those sealed are taken out of the tribes of Israel. They are the remnant, while the great body of the membership of the tribes is left unsealed. 2. The Gentile Christians are named immediately after. Observe the marks of the countless multitude of the Gentiles saved. A.) They are clothed in white robes. White robes are the mark of triumph. B.) The have palms in their hands. Palms belong to victors. C.) They join in a song of praise to the Lamb as the author of their salvation.

What do the symbols of the vision signify? It is evident that they indicate that four destructive agencies were to be checked and restrained until some great work of the gospel was accomplished. We find that at the end of the fourth century, the civilized Roman world was Christian.

CHAPTER VIII

Remember that in the opening of the seventh Chapter, we are told of the four angels holding back four destructive agencies until a great work was done for the Church. That now is accomplished.

The seventh seal was opened. There was silence in heaven about the space of an hour. It would appear that this is a hush of awe before the march of the terrible judgments to come.

The first six verses describe the preparations and deliberation of the angels, as the seventh and last seal will not be exhausted until the seven trumpets have discharged their mission.

Does this immediate period of history correspond in successive order to the four trumpet blasts?

1. In about 400 AD the "four winds" could be held no longer. The Goths gathered out of the mysterious lands of the far north and migrating southward, threw themselves like a savage host on Rome. They left a wake of blackened, bloody lands. In 409 AD Alaric led then into Italy. This land had not seen an invader for 800 years. They reached the city, and after a long seige, in the dead of night, the gates were opened by traitors and for three days the sack of Rome continued before they were exhausted with killing and spoil. The iron hail of war, the fire of burning towns and blackened lands denuded of fruit trees and grass churned underneath the feet of the invaders seem to correspond to the descriptions in scripture.

It should be noted how the infidel Gibbon has chosen the very language of inspiration to describe some of the events of this period. "The tremendous sound of the Gothic trumpet" stirred the hosts to invasion. "At the first sound of the trumpet the Goths left their farms" to rush on in invasion. "The Gothic conflageration" consumed the Empire. "Blood and conflageration and the burning of trees and herbage marked their path."

Here surely is the fulfillment of the first trumpet.

2. The second trumpet implies a warfare upon the sea. Look at it. The Goths completed their work about 409 AD. About ten years later, yet another horde of northern barbarians was sweeping south. These were the Vandals. They rushed over Gaul, swept through Spain, leaped over the narrow straits at Gibralter, and wrested northern Africa from the Roman Empire, lands that fed much of the remainder of the Empire.

Then they threw themselves like a burning mountain upon the sea and filled it with fire and blood. In order that they might assail Rome on the seas and carry their armies to the islands and to Italy, they built fleets and struggled for the mastery of the Mediterranean. For six hundred years prior, no ship hostile to Rome had disputed their mastery of the sea, but now it becomes the theatre of war. Fleets meet in the shock of battle' the sea is redened with the blood of the slain; the Roman ensign goes down, dyed in blood, the islands of the seal fall into the hands of the fierce barbarians, and at last, nearly thirty years after the contest began, their fleets land armies in Italy, and they rush upon Rome. The city is beseiged, falls, and for fourteen days a pitiless barbarian soldiery spare neither age nor sex. The spoil gathered for eight hundred years, from a hundred conquered nations, is carried away and loaded upon the Vandal fleets, and the blasted, scourged, and pillaged Capital is abandoned as unworthy to be held as a permanent possession.

This would appear to conform with the blowing of the Second Trumpet.

3. "A blazing meteor" follows the sound of the Third Trumpet. A meteor is a sudden, brilliant phenomenon with a sudden appearance and fairly quick lifespan. This description would seem to imply some mighty leader who suddenly appears and begins his destructive work. Right at this point in history, is there such a fiery leader? Before 440AD, the Romans knew nothing of the Hungarian nation. About that time a fiery leader suddenly appeared as a meteor would flash across the sky, a warrior upon the banks of the river Danube, with eight hundred thousand fighting men under his banner.

They had come from the depths of Central Asia, marched north of the Euxine Sea through Russia, and now knocked at the river boundary of the Roman Empire. Overcoming opposition to their passage at the river Danube, the rushed westward, crossed the river Rhine, and on the river Marne, were met by the armies of Rome. The historians tell us that the blood of the slaughter mad the river run with blood, and that from 150,000 to 300,000 bodies of the dead attested to the fury of the fighting.

Turning southwards, on the banks of the river Rhone, the hosts met again in fury. Then descending from the Alps, the fierce warrior, on the banks of the river Po, contended for mastery of Italy. Victorious, he marched southward to seize the imperioal prize. Unable to contend any longer, Rome sent a priestly deputation to ask him to depart. By rich bribes and by using his superstition they succeeded, and he retire, made Buda, on the river Danube, his capital and founded the Hungarian nation. When he died, his followers turned the waters of the Danube from its course, buried him in its bed, and then let the waters again flow over the grave of their founder, where his body still remains. There lies the bones of the star called Wormwood, that fell most violently upon the rivers.

The trumpets have blown, three awful blows have been struck, and the weakened Empire is ready to fall when the Fourth Trumpet blows.

THE FOURTH TRUMPET

Read again the 12th verse. We have found that the Goths struck their blow about 409AD, the Vandals from the sea about 422AD, and Attila upon the rivers about 440AD. Odoacer, king of the Heruli, a Northern race, encouraged by the apparent weakness of the falling empire, besieged and took the almost helpless city. Augustulus, the feeble emperor, was hurled down, the Roman senate that had met for 1228 years, was driven from the Senate chambers, the very fabric of the Empire fell to the dust, and the great men were humbled, never to rise again. Sun, moon, and stars, emperor, princes, and great me, are smitten, lose their power, and cease to give light. There now began the period called by all historians the "Dark Ages." The fall of Rome introduced the period when, intellectually and spiritually, the day and night were darkened; when the minds of men were blindfolded, and when the Church, falling gradually into apostasy, gave forth for ages only a feeble light to human souls.

THE THIRD PART

The third part is named in each of these four judgments. The first falls on a third part of the earth, the second on a third part of the sea, the third on a third part of the rivers and the fourth on a third part of the sun, moon, and stars. If they were to fall upon a third part of the great Roman world, (1) upon its land provinces, (2) upon its seas, (3) upon its river systems, and (4) upon emperors and rulers (sun, moon, stars), the whole would be fulfilled. THIS IS JUST WHAT TOOK PLACE.

During a great part of the period when the events were taking place which are covered by the seven trumpets, the great Roman world was divided into three parts. Gibbon, Chap LII., says: "From the age of Charlemagne to that of the Crusades, the world (Roman) was occupied and disputed by the three great empires, or nations of the Greeks, the Saracens, and the Franks." "The three great nations of the (Roman) world, the Greeks, the Saracens, and the Franks, encountered each other on the plains of Italy." Chap. LVI.

It is upon one of these parts, "a third part," the Western third part, called the Latin or Frank part that all the calamities of the four invasions of Goths, Vandals, Huns, and Heruli fell. It was the Western THIRD PART, the Old Roman Empire , which fell forever under their blows.

CHAPTER IX

1-6

John saw when the trumpet sounded, not a star falling, but a star fallen to the earth. A star is a leader. A star fallen would indicate his degradation in some manner. Given the key to the bottomless pit, he was given power to let out hellish influences on earth. From this hellish pit, came some influence, symbolized by the smoke, which darkened the earth. The destroying locusts symbolize destroying armies. The locust usually devours everything, but these locusts shall seek to preserve trees and green things.

These locusts special hurt is reserved for men, but they should not kill them. This either implies that the armies symbolized by these locusts should not seek to destroy the races they attack, or that they should not destroy the empires they assail.

Five months. Their torment should continue for five months, or one hundred and fifty prophetic days. Since a day is a symbol for a year, this implies one hundred and fifty years. So terrible will be the torment of these scorpions that death will be desired.

The appearance of these locusts as described is armies of horsemen. There was an appearance like golden crowns. An array of men wearing yellow turbans would have such an appearance.

Faces of men. Faces covered with beard. Roman soldiers wore no beard, hence the beards would be a striking feature to John.

Hair as the hair of women. Wearing long, flowing hair.

Teeth as of lions. Probably signifies a fierceness.

Breastplates as breastplates of iron. Not iron breastplates of iron, nor the segmented lorica so familiar to John. Maybe mail.

The sound of their wings. They gave a sound like the rush of chariots or horses into battle.

Tails. They stung terribly, and left a sting in their path.

They had a king over them. The real king was not the star, but the power of the bottomless pit.

Apollyon. The destroyer. Either the devil or one of his angels.

FULFILLMENT:

The locust, the horse, the horsemen, the scorpions, and indeed all symbols point to Arabia as the source from whence the locusts come. It is evident that the uprising of Mohammedan or Saracen power is meant here.

The Western Empire had fallen in AD 476. Yet there existed the Eastern Roman Empire with Constantinople for its capital, called the Greek Empire. Against this Eastern Empire the Saracen attack was especially directed.

The Arabians, unlike the Goths, Vandals, or Huns were an army of horsemen, and moved over a country almost with the swiftness of the locust.

The Arabs:

Came forth from the home of the locust.

They all fought on horseback. There was not a foot soldier within the armies that in 632 assailed the Eastern Empire.

They wore long patriarchal beards.

In Ezekial 23:42, speaking of the Sabeans, which were an Arab tribe, says, "The Sabeans of the wilderness who put upon their heads beautiful crowns." The historians often speak of them as the "turbaned Arabs." The yellow turbans of he Arab horsemen, at a little distance would strikingly resemble "crowns" of gold.

But to the faces of men is added "the hair of women." The female distinction is long hair, and evidently, John beholds as these riders pass by, long hair flowing to their shoulders and streaming in the wind. Did the Arabs of the seventh century wear long hair? Pliny, who was the contemporary of John, speaks (Nat. His. 7:28) of "the turbaned Arabs with their uncut hair." Ammianus Marcellinus in th efourth, and Jerome in the fifth century, each speak of the long-haired Arabs.

But the locusts had "breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron." The historians of the Arabian wars constantly speak of their coats of iron mail. Muhammed in the Qur'an says" "Allah has given you coats of mail to defend you in the wars."

OTHER DETAILS

Muhammed was literally a star fallen. He was a prince by birth, the heir to the rule of Mecca, but with his grandfather and father dying while he was young, he was pushed aside to become an embittered servant.

The locusts came out of the smoke. The Arabs were unknown as a conquering force before Muhammed. The smoke of his imposture filled them with the stern, fanaticism of the Qur'an, fanned by the lust for booty.

They had literal orders not to destroy vegetation. As a desert people, they relished and preserved green vegetation, something they prized and found precious.

Their work was to continue for 150 years. Though Muhammed began his work earlier, it was in 632 AD that the Arab hosts burst forth from their deserts to assail the world. Within a hundred years Palestine, Syria, Mesopotaia, Egypt, the north of Africa, and Spain had fallen under their sway. In 762 the capital of the Saracen Empire was placed at Baghad and their rulers began to enjoy peaceful ideas. In 781, Th eCaliph Haroun Al Rashid was their ruler. This is the golden age of the Saracen Empire. The era of Arabian nights. Bagdad was called the City of Peace.

How long from the beginning of the torment the spread of Islam? In AD 632 they burst forth, to which you add 150 years. That would bring us to AD 782, the second year of the reign of Haroun Al Rashid's rule. Did the torment continue any longer? Nope. He was engaged in friendly correspondence with the Christian rulers of Europe, and from this time the Saracens ceased to forcibly compel others to make the world Muhamedan.

Look like the Turks are next.

reply to post by knows_but_doesnt

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As so much of the bible is claimed to be metaphor, why is it necassary to accept the white horse to be anactual horse ?
Perhaps these horses are infact alien ships, this would definately fit in well with the release of The Day The Earth Stood still. Remember that Klatu and gang have given over power to Gort the would be destroyer of the planet.

As far as the number of the beast goes, well there seems to be a variety of numbers and allegations of mistranslations of the numbers that it would probably be best to just forget about that one.

Could it not be the case that, revelation is alluding to the apostle paul (if ever there was one) being the antichrist and the subsequent rise of his christianity becoming the whore spoken of ?

Queen Elizabeth often rides a white horse and is the commander of an army,that seems to be jointly employed in the abomination of desolation in Iraq. Queen liz is also the head honcho of christianity in the Uk a cult which has its' roots in the pauline cult.

Yes indeed this is a very intersting thread let's see where it goes eh?

reply to post by TheRedneck

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that is a very unorthadox view to the revelation horses... but did you ever think that the words were just used as descriptions of how black the horse is or how white the clothing is? Also i have always interpreted the white horse as the Mahdi or the antichrist. Even the Muslim people identify the white horse as the Mahdi.

So your theory is good, but just wanted to put my thoughts in their.

Peace be to you all, in the name of YHVH

reply to post by moocowman

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The mark of the beast is highly misunderstood.

if you look the bible treats the mark of the beast and the number of his name (666) as seperate marks. but both will be branded on the citizen of the Moslem NWO, along with a third mark that will be instituted with the Mahdi. Study the bible.

Peace be to you all, in the name of YHVH

reply to post by moocowman

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History proves that there was a pharisee named Sha'ul so you cannot deny that one, and if you look, Rav Sha'ul carried on what Rav Yeshua started... Teaching pure torah, no contradicting traditions...and since Misdrash Yochanon (John) was a devout follower of Rav Yeshua then it would be senseless to assumme that Yochanon thought of the Natzarim as a whore.

He did think that the Gantile congregation (the christians spoken of in the bible [jews were called Natzarim{the way}]) was doing wrong by splitting from the jewish roots.

Now there is more in depth studies on this subject, but the entire theory is senseless.

Peace be to you all, in the name of YHVH

reply to post by dooper

All I can say at this moment is: WOW!

You have definitely studied this as well. It appears to me thsat the main difference between our readings (apart from the obvious timeline) is that yours is a bit more symbolic than mine.

I can't refute a word you typed now. I will say I want to study over this and will get back to you with what I find.

I am also going back and starring all of your posts on this.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

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I was running our of space on that, so it was a perfect place to quit. Besides, my fingers were like the rest of me - about give out!

The next trumpet is one of the most stunning in terms of paralleling history. I'll try to get that to you tomorrow evening, but I really love that one. Right time, right place, right track, right players. And the right time span.

Glad you're enjoying.

reply to post by dooper

LOL, that's the way I felt after typing the first posts in this thread, like my fingers were going to fall off.

I'm not actually agreeing with your interpretation, as I don't know if anyone has it right really. But I am listening with an open mind and enjoying it immensely. I'll be waiting to hear your finale.

TheRedneck

Yes it would appear that the mark of the beast is very confusing, trying to get to the bottom of the number seems to be a well of confusion. If the number itself cannot be established, how in the hell is it possible to make a pediction from it ?


The Other Number of the Beast: 616

The newest volume of Oxyrhynchus Papyri contains a fragmentary papyrus of Revelation which is the earliest known witness to some sections (late third / early fourth century). A detailed discussion of its place in the MS tradition is given in the printed volume.

One feature of particular interest is the number that this papyrus assigns to the Beast: 616, rather than the usual 666. (665 is also found.) We knew that this variant existed: Irenaeus cites (and refutes) it. But this is the earliest instance that has so far been found. The number — chi, iota, stigma (hexakosiai deka hex) — is in the third line of the fragment shown below. But why does it matter what the number is? For that, we have to turn to ancient Greek ideas about numerology. Excerpt

reply to post by iesus_freak

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Correct me if I'm wrong but are you implying there are no contradictions in the torah ?

This thread is a joke.

Sorry had to be said.

THE SIXTH TRUMPET

The Arab scourge had ended by 782AD. It had taken from the Eastern Empire its provices in Africa, and most of its possessions in Asia. The world, according to Gibbon, was at this time divided into three parts. Two of these have fallen before five destructive agencies. One still remains to be destroyed by the angels bound at the river Euphrates.

A few years before 1000AD, a fierce Tatar race, formidible in numbers and bravery left the shores of the Caspian Sea and moved southwestward, settling on the banks of the Eurphrates. They took the country to the east. This went on for almost a half century, as it seemed they were somehow restrained by the Euphrates. They took the country east of the river and Persia became one of its provinces, even to India. But for two generations, they were somehow restrained, or held, or bound by the river Euphrates.

By inexplicably remaining on its eastern banks, their armies were restrained from ravaging the countries to the west for almost a half century. But in 1057, sixty years and two generations after arriving, they crossed the river and marched on the last remnant of the eastern Roman Empire. The people were called Turkomans, or Turkmen; we call them Turks.

There were four angels. This would imply four powers. This people of Turkomans were divided into four kingdoms, under the four grandsons of Togrul, father of Malek Shah. This is described by Gibbon in Volume 5, page 532. The mighty empire of Malek Shah was divided into four principalities under his four sons. There are then four angels of destruction.

Consider:
1. They were bound at the river Euphrates.

2. There were four commands.

3. Their armies were of horsemen, apparently countless.

4. They numbered their horsemen by MYRIADS instead of thousands. Gibbon often speaks of the myriads of horse. See Chapter 57.

5. "The Ottomans until a very recent period wore warlike apparel of scarlet, blue, and yellow."

6. The first time gunpowder and firearms were employed in war was during their campaigns. Constantinople was taken by cannon fire. To quote Gibbon, "The great cannon of Mahamet has been separately noticed; an important and visible object in the history of the times; but that enormous engine was flanked by two fellows almost of equal magnitude; the long order of the Turkish artillery was pointed against the walls; fourteen batteries thundered at once on the most accessible places; and of one of these it is ambiguously expressed, that it was mounted with one hundred and thirty balls, or discharged one hundred and thirty bullets."

7. There was power in the tails of the horses. This is a singular statement. No less singular is the fact that among the Turks, the horse's tail is an emblem of power. A Pacha of three tails is a great officer. The emblem of the rule of the Pachas, the most wasteful, oppressive, unjust rule the world has ever seen, is the horse's tail.

The prophetic period is three hundred, ninety-six years, and four months. (An hour, a day, a month, and a year.) How does this match up? It must evidently begin at the time that the Turkish armies crossed the river and assault the Empire. The Eastern Empire soon lost all its territories and was reduced to the city of Constantinople.

In the year 1453, attacked by 200,000 Turks, its walls were battered down by the first cannon ever used in a siege. With 100,000 of its citizens dead, Constantinople was stormed by the Turks and the last relic of a mighty Empire which had lasted for 2,200 years was eradicated. Thus the last third of John's (Roman) world.

The work began by crossing the Euphrates in 1057, culminated in the Empire being eradicated in 1453. The interval between is 396 years! Actually, this prophecy is even more precise. We have found it to mean exactly 396 years and four months. On January 28, 1057, according to Arabian historians, the Turks marched from Baghdad. 396 years and four months, or 120 days, would bring us to May 29, 1453, the very day of the fall of Constantinople and the final overthrow of the Greek third part of the (Roman) world.

reply to post by TheRedneck

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You have a theory, but your way off course, the white horse is actually the spirit of religious deception, even Christ says in Matthew 24 that many would come in my name, the red horse is what follows religious persecution which is death, the dark ages are a perfect example and in this day and age islam (religious deception) is followed by death everywhere you go, the black horse is where we are headed with an economic meltdown throughout the world. Prophecy explains itself if you check other verses in the old and new testament. The John in this book is the one that walked with the Lord, this was written around the year 90 and Christ was sacrificed between the year 30 and 40.
Manny