Behold, the black horse of Revelation!

Wrong wrong wrong... The new testement was written by jews with a jewish knowledge base... The man with the "bow" means he has a military background and since it has no arrows he no longer is in the military... Yor eppihany is wrong!

What a great and informative piece of research you've done! I personally stay clear of any attempt to interpret Revelations because of that little warning he gives for adding or taking away. God knows my life doesn't need any more woes, than it has at the current time, but with that being said your word study is most excellent!

One thing all those who believe know is that when all these things do start unfolding, the numbers of survivors will be slim in comparison to those who die. A fourth of the world will die from the advent of these four horses alone. That's a whole lot of death.

Two billion people profess to be Christians, who know Jesus and a couple more billion claim to have a bit of respect for him, but when people start calling out for help he'll say "I never knew you."

And failure to repent and acknowledge where all these disasters are coming from is why it will get so bad.

Redneck, your response on seal brought this to mind:

Daniel 12: 9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Seal (Hebrew) from Strong’s

1. to seal, seal up, affix a seal
a. (Qal)
1. to seal, affix one's seal
2. to seal up, fasten up by sealing
b. (Niphal) to seal
c. (Piel) to lock up
d. (Hiphil) to be stopped

Is this the seal that is broken by Christ? Daniel and Revelation seem to go hand in hand.

Although I don't believe in Scripture or Revelations, I admire the level of work here and the way your findings are presented. Excellent work, enjoyable.

A few people have mentioned the 'Obama as Anti-Christ' theory. I don't see that, and here is why:

Source: www.biblegateway.com...

A man is named (as I have already pointed out) in the Jewish tradition as more than a label. It is considered to be a definition of that man. As such, a man and his name are one and the same.

The number of a man (or his name) is actually a common reference in Hebrew literature. Hebrew has no numbers per se, like we have (1, 2, 3, ,4, 5...). They use numbers associated with the letters of their alphabet. A word is said to have a number associated with it. The Hebrew alphabet (alephbet) is better explained by an authority than by me:

Source: www.jewfaq.org...

The alephbet is also unique to Hebrews, meaning that in order for a name to have a corresponding number, that name must be Hebrew (or Jewish, a derivative of Hebrew). Other names do not use the Hebrew alephbet, and therefore cannot be numbered in this way. In the experience of John, as a Jew familiar with cultural traditions of the Jews, this numbering of a word, specifically a name, would have been as clear a clue to the identity as a flashing neon sign is to us today.

So the Anti-Christ must have a Jewish name, and Obama is not a Jewish name. It may be translated, but the verse referenced above does not say the number of a translated name of a man, but the number of a man... in Jewish tradition, the number of the word he claims as his name.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

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Please continue....More please this is so interesting. I do believe we are very close to then end but how close, I am just not so sure.....


J

reply to post by darkelf


Yes, I have always thought parts of Daniel are eerily similar to sections of Revelation. But your question brings another question to my mind:

There are seven seals in the first prophetic section of Revelation (Chapters 5-11). Daniel in his prophesy does indeed mention a sealing up of prophesy. Now, Daniel was but one of many prophets who had visions from God during the time preceding Jesus. How many of them were to place seals upon their prophesies? Could it have been seven?

I have never thought of this, so I honestly don't know, but I will make a point to look into this; does anyone have this information?

TheRedneck

edit to add: So many of you have brought up excellent points; forgive me and accept my thanks for your contributions if I miss one?

TheRedneck


[edit on 20-11-2008 by TheRedneck]

great thread, really makes you want to study and feel safe. also great post ashley d. alot of information to study. i suspect ill be reading for the next few day =) thanks to both of you.

reply to post by TheRedneck

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absolutely. if you have the time and want to do it. I love to read about it. really makes me want to study, so thank you for that!

reply to post by OptionFour

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I completely agree, Red made no mention of Obama.(referring to "icecoldpro") so... sit down and relax. in the preface he stated "if your not into religion...dont read this. it seems to me youre here only to bash...so relax, and open your mind a little. I personally dont need you telling me what to believe.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by AKARonco]

reply to post by tyranny22

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The interpretations in Redneck's post are very interesting and follow along the lines of history which to me seem to be what the Bible is all about; the history of God's people; both the beginning and the end. In Jeremiah 32:37-41, God says, "I will certainly regather my people from all the countries where I will have exiled them in my anger, fury, and great wrath. I will bring them back to this place and allow them to live here in safety. They will be my people , and I will be their God. I will give them a single-minded purpose to live in a way that always shows respect for Me. They will want to do that for their own good and the good of the children who descend from them. I will make a lasting covenant with them that I will never stop doing good to them. I will fill their hearts and minds with respect for Me so that they will never again turn away from Me. I will take delight in doing good to them. I will faithfully and wholeheartedly plant them firmly in the land."

To me that is the difference between the posts of the people you see in these forums. They are either for Him or against Him, yet the ones against Him do not see that they are, as it is written in Daniel, "Many will be purified, made clean, and refined, but the wicked will go on being wicked. None of the wicked will understand, though the wise will understand." It is a paradox even to those who believe why things happen as they do. Whom amongst us has not struggled with our faith and the historical evidence of the writings in the Bible, yet we hold to this higher Truth that He is Love and He is our Father and He sent His Son to save us. We can look at this earth and the people upon it and know with certainty that unless the time of the end was shortened no one will have survived the toxicity of this planet both physically and spiritually.

According to the writings in the new testament their are many anti-christs who will come. Hitler believed he was a messiah. www.geocities.com...

The pair of balances that are represented with the black horse may fit with the US as even the Great Seal of the US has an eagle with talons holding two different symbols that are weighed in the balance; the arrows and the olive leaf. en.wikipedia.org...

Even now there is a case before the US Supreme Court that could change history within a month. On December 1st of this year Obama must present documents proving beyond a doubt that he has met the constitional requirement to run for president; that is, being a natural born citizen. There are suits in at least 10 states that are seeking to know the truth of his citizenship. If it is found that he does not, then we will have a crisis that will affect all the people of the earth, according to signs that were given to Mr. Scott Walkington during a life after death event. If you search for information on these signs you will find only the seventh, though, on the net they are listed as all seven signs. According to him the previous six have all come to pass.

I, too, have experienced events where the laws of physics were altered; matter was transformed and then reformed to prevent my destruction. I have seen events where I was saved and gravity acted contrary to its nature. I do not have proof only that I was there and saw it happen, and I am not out to persuade anyone that it did. He sends His angels charge over us to guard in all our ways, because there are dark forces and I agree with Redneck that we most likely would not want to be able to see them. I saw enough in helping my son overcome schizophrenia.

To those who do not agree with this there is a line in a movie and it may be appropriate here: "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." Peace.

i´m not speak english i´m try to say tha you need to see the flags of the countrys syria, palestin, egypt, iraq!! they have the colours of the horses, and the war of iraq is now,
i´m sorry for my english
BYe

reply to post by Ironclad

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the difference between those "religions" you mentioned IRONCLAD is this..Christianity has a risen savior. He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. I also understand it is sometimes hard to believe alot of the stuff that religion is about, imo thats what faith is. "the ability to believe without proof." again imo your "religion" isnt the important part, it your faith in God. and your description of communism is a little askew also. the devils biggest victory is making people think he doesnt exist.

Redneck I knew there was a reason I enjoyed your posts and considered you a friend. You did a very good job with this and really did some work and research here. I will be interested in hearing/reading more of what you have to say on the subject.

I personally have struggled a great deal throughout life with my faith and at times I have even stepped far away from it may be out of spite. I still struggle it seems every day but a few years back I had a vision/dream that really affected me, actually thinking back on it gives me the willies again. Anyone that knows me especially my wife can tell you I don’t dream, even more so when I do they are not real as this dream was.

This dream was about the four horsemen in a way only instead of horsemen in the dream they were pumas/mountain lions. In this dream I saw the symbolism of the twin towers as two very large/tall and straight trees that vanished before my eyes. Also in the dream the white and pale (a greenish sickly yellow) sat back as if one had already came and the other (pale) was yet to come and waiting for the right time. While the black and the red had me pined in a tree. The red was leaping up at me while the black paced around and sat at the bottom of the tree as if waiting for its turn to come. I believe we have seen the end of the red horse and are witnessing the start of the black horse. Though I think this took place at the start of last year. I believe we are just past the midway mark of being through this. I do though think instead of going at the same pace things might be picking up as if rolling down hill. I am not saying I will see the pale horse in my life time but I believe it will be here sooner than the time between the white and the red.


I will be reading your OP a few more times to gather some more understanding of it, but you did a great job I really enjoyed reading it.


As for those who came here to bash he even mentioned in the OP if you are offended or just want to bash take it elsewhere. It is not like we do not have enough threads you can derail anyway. Let the adults sit back and discuss things rationally even if they do not agree at least they have been civil.

Raist

Wow... I am very impressed! Your knowledge of the bible and intrepetations from a Hebrew point of view are astounding.

reply to post by Raist

Raist, that dream just shot chills up my spine! Thanks so much for sharing it.

I wonder, based on the symbolism of the two trees (twin towers) if that event did not somehow mark the entry of the black horse (puma). I believe in my heart that the terrorist attack and the resulting governmental activities changed forever the way the USA looks at its citizenry.

I also saw a parallel between the red puma, leaping and trying to get at you, and the in-your-face tactics of the Third Rieght(sp?). The black one, on the other hand, was simply circling below, as if it knew you could not stay there forever.

If I am interpreting your description accurately, of course. You dreamed it, not me.

TheRedneck

I would also like to thank all those who have asked for more of my rather unique (translation: warped) way of interpreting the prophesies in the Bible. I will try to accommodate you in the near future.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

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I too, have read the Book of Revelation, and I must always compel myself to remember who John was writing to, his world, and why. The opening of the first seal must portray a period or events nearest to the time of John, while the seventh seal must relate to the remotest events.

I would suggest that many of the seals and trumpets at the time of writing were futuristic, and by now, many are already fulfilled. I have heard this rider of the white horse to mean Christ victorious, the spread of the Gospel, and any number of meanings, but they would not account for the other horses and provide any continuity.

One thing about prophecy is that the symbols used must be consistent. We can't cherry pick and really force a stretch to make them fit.

Since the horse was never used by Jews as a beast of burden, and instead a symbol of war, it must represent war. Four horses, four colors, four different symbols to represent four different circumstances. Therefore, these must be secular symbols, not spiritual changes.

I see the white horse as symbolic of victorious of war, The rider, his arms, his garland crown of victory, and the horse indicating a conquering force or conquering age. The Persian empire was represented by a Ram, Macedon a goat, but Roman empire by a white horse.

John was on Patmos in AD 96, the same year Domitian was slain. Nerva, a Cretan, a land of bowmen, began his reign which was one of great expansion and prosperity. His adopted son Trajan's incessant wars were a string of victories, and almost daily, the Senate was astonished to hear of new victories and new expansions.

Rome reached its greatest apex of power and prosperity under Domitian.

The second horse was Red. Blood red. The horse being the symbol of war is no longer the triumphant color of white, but red, suggesting a change of fortune, one drenched in blood. The earth as John described was the Roman Empire, or the Earth that dominated his existence. Peace was to be taken away for 92 years. This period of the Roman Empire was dominated by constant civil strife, torn by bloody conquests between rivals for power. During that period thirty-two emperors, and twenty-seven pretenders alternately hurled each other from the throne by incessant civil warfare. "to whom was given a great sword, and the power to take away peace, that men should kill one another."

I would suggest that in the history of the world, no such prolonged period of civil war was carried out, and no greater example of correspondence between this vision and events of history can be made.

The Black Horse, still a symbol of war would indicate calamitous war, filled with sorrow, mourning, and despair. It is not easy to define a sharp difference between the Red, Black, and Pale horses, and the results of the Red horse bleeds into the Black and caused much of the scarcity, and the scarcity caused disease and so on.

There is a period of extreme taxation, extreme prices, greate scarcity, want and famine, due to the destruction of armies and the untilled fields during a period of civil war of the preceeding 92 years. Ther is first the civil war as a cause, and second the scarcity and famine as the effect.

The Pale Horse. Still a time of war, but this is the bloodless color of the dead. Do we find scarcity, want, hunger, pestilence and disease in the latter portion of the civil war commotion?

The tenth chapter of the first volume of Gibbon's Rome details a condition whch existed in the reign of Gallienus, as the 92 years were drawing to a close about 268 AD. The wheels had fallen completely off the Roman civilization. Famine, plague, scarcity, and unwholesome food resulted in from 250 - 265 AD, famine and epidemical diseases raged without interruption in every Roman province, every city, and almost every family. During that time, some 5,000 citizens in Rome died every day, and many of the towns that had escaped the Barbarians , were entirely depopulated. Half the people of Alexandria had perished. Gibbon also relates the scourge of ravenous wild beasts which had quickly multiplied from the depopulations of the great provinces.

But, what do I know.


[edit on 20-11-2008 by dooper]

Interesting theories, OP.

But one problem is that Revelation is so full of symbolism that sometimes it's hard to pin down exactly what means what when translated to something we should be looking out for.

Another thing, which may be a problem, is that many prophecies have, historically, not been understood by the many until after the event.

I'm not saying that we can't decipher certain things, though. We are told that we are not to be ignorant of the times we live in.


Anyway, I will study your 'take' on things in more detail.