Revelation 6 starts off after the following occurs in his vision: a book in the throne room of God is seen and cannot be opened for no man is 'worthy' to do so.

Then you, or anybody else have not known about the 'Secret Witness'.

Originally posted by IceColdPro

The word Stephanos is a Greek word not a Hebrew word. If you are making links like this in your theory then your entire thread has lost credibility in my opinion.

Just in case you were not paying attention, the bible was translated to English from Greek. In fact, EVERY single word that Red translated for us was in fact Greek. The fact that you refused to Deny Your Ignorance in this case, has made your post hold absolutely no credibility in my opinion.

Originally posted by IceColdPro


Unfortunately the novel entitled "the Bible" isn't the word of god and no one knows what the future really holds for us. I can't begin to fathom how from only a few short and abstract lines, you have pulled this entire conspiracy about Obama out of the air, clearly jumping from A to C without a B.


[edit on 20-11-2008 by IceColdPro]

[edit on 20-11-2008 by IceColdPro]

I'm tired, so its possible I misread the OP, but I'm fairly certain he didn't mention Obama. If that's true it makes you look a little frenzied, as does the rest of your post. Calm down. You'll live longer.

And to the OP, while I'm not Christian, I find this to be really interesting material. I'd like to see any more interpretations that you have. Interesting work.

pause on a venomous premise for war and paint the whore in make up the same #ing story
monger the wardog bollocks big brother i look up to two towers and await the return of the king
burn when you sing the praises of your god mongrel gollum amalgam grandiose overdose
bring me the man seeking to stand alone complex
superstructure dual vertical inferno
explosive implications expose simplifications
take the christ word for granted the seeds have already been planted
are you ready to rot properly olly olly oxen free the people
pester the mortar and ready the pestilence
take one quarter of the fourth horseman and span the distance
white red black pale
smoke lead slack stale
my seventh step went electric when half the population became heavy infected

Ho ho I am a prophet!

Really great thread (I've only read the intro so far)! Prophecy is indeed quite personal, just as each mans connection to the great intangible one/all. I'm not sure what impetus has seen me arrive at the precipice on which we now stand; What drives me to write about the things I do. God help us all, and let all of us help God.

all days change and fade according to the will of the increate
each leaf is his breathe manifest
i am but an ever changing stranger who seeks the light
all suffering is apparently inherent
why must it be so
i have it easy yet queasy the stomach
when i view mans tatters from the mount on the summit
im soon removed from it as back to earth quickly i plummet

Originally posted by knows_but_doesnt
In the back of my mind, I always wonder if our world would be taking the same course (with the one world currency, gov, ID chip, etc) if the Bible never existed. Are there some sick puppies out there trying to make revelations come true? Ponder that for awhile.

I used to watch Dr. Gene Scott way back in the day (when I had TV) and he went over revelations numerous times. What is weird to me, is if this Bible book was meant to be an "Instruction Manual" for our lives, then why in the hell is it so damn confusing and full of weird stuff, and tons of contradictions and such? Don't get me wrong, I know God. But the book has me baffled. I would love to see the "real" writings, those that did not get cut from the cannon, or hidden because they did not fit the church control goals.

Great comments k_b_d. I have actually contemplated before the notion that the book of Revelation is possibly a blueprint available for sick people to use as a guide. Almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. However, I believe the difficult, and at times impossible, to decode nature of the book of Revelation is meant to ensure that no one can use the prophecy to literally follow a path to Armageddon. Like Mabus seems to be implying in this thread (although I don't fully understand what he's on about), it is possible to interpret the prophecy as a general plan, and try to carry it out. But according to the Bible, there can be only one anti-Christ, someone who is given powers to do evil beyond any human comprehension, so not your average person then. This person will carry out objectives which will allow the entire prophecy to be fulfilled. I believe that after this person emerges on the world stage, the larger pieces of the prophecy will become more obvious, more clear.

As far as your comments on the Bible's complexity and contradictions, I too have wondered about this as well. I would love to see the "real", original writings. I have recently considered trying to do something similar to what OP red has done here, and take a look at the root of the english words we see in our modern Bibles. This allows us a much clearer interpretation of the scripture. As you may know, the Old Testament of the Bible was originally a spoken, or oral, version which was passed down from generation to generation. This oral tradition was used before written language was used to keep track of history, and was used by many ancient cultures around the world. So the Bible's Old Testament cannot be taken as literally as some would like to believe. While it is like an "Instruction manual," it is not necessarily supposed to be taken as a literal retelling of events. Just imagine how long people passed these stories along, and how the meaning could easily change (even if slightly) over time. IMO, the New Testament is a much better guide.

Revelation is a book which is full of symbolism, so unless you had some sort of special knowledge, you could never completely understand what the prophecy truly means, until it happens that is. OP red does not claim to fully understand Revelation, and he is certainly entitled to his informed opinion.

The Bible, and the book of Revelation in particular, is confusing because is was written by people living in a different culture, long ago. If the book of Revelation is true, and the writer truly witnessed the events described in the Bible, he would only be able to relate to his own culture/scientific/technological understanding. If he was describing a modern war, with jets, and tanks, and missiles, etc., it would be pretty difficult for that writer to describe these things as we (in our modern culture) understand them.

You're right though, the Bible is often difficult to read. I recommend to anyone interested in the Bible's message, but lacking in theological understanding, to do as I have done and search out reliable theories/translations/interpretations from experts and theologians

Now, let us look at the next rider in verses 5 and 6. This horse was black (melas, indeed black) and held a pair of balances (zugos) in his hand. Now black, according to Hebrew tradition, is the opposite of white, and the opposite of light. It is more than just a color, but is also figuratively the absence of knowledge, the absence of truth, or the absence of righteousness, white being synonymous with the existence of these. Thus the black horse can be seen to infer one or more of these conditions. Zugos, however, is where things really get intriguing. It means a pair of balances, or a yoke like that worn by slaves (not sure why the double meaning; I can only assume the two were similar in form at one time or otherwise connected). So if we take the meaning of yoke, we have a rider on a lack of righteousness, knowledge, or truth who holds a symbol of slavery.

The description goes on to say a voice is crying out information about this rider. It declares a measure (choinix) of wheat for a penny (denarion) or three measures (choinix) of barley for a penny (denarion). Now a choinix was a measure that was a little less than a litre, assumed to be enough for a man of average appetite for one day. A denarion was a monetary unit. From Jesus' parable of the vineyard workers:

Great post and worth studying. I must admit I found the section with regard to the Black rider very interesting. My feeling was how we are now in the dawn of an era where the USA has it's first black president, who will most-likely be at the forefront of a probable serious economic down-term which will affect food, utilities, medicine etc. etc.

It means a pair of balances, or a yoke like that worn by slaves (not sure why the double meaning;

Quite symbolic also in that Obama also represents a complete turn around of the 'slavery' system that plagued us not so many years ago....

Credit to OP.

Originally posted by RR98
Biblical prophecy is idiotic crap. Get a life!

So ignore it then. No one told you to come in here and post, and I doubt someone forced you to. I also doubt you read the OP, so maybe you should ignore this "crap" and leave. Because if you have the life you claim we don't, shouldn't you be doing something more constructive with it? I disagree with many things in this world, but I don't go onto message boards to post my dislike for them. But then again, I have a life.

Originally posted by IceColdPro

The word Stephanos is a Greek word not a Hebrew word. If you are making links like this in your theory then your entire thread has lost credibility in my opinion. I could go through the entirety of what you are saying and prove you are wrong in many ways, but I won't dedicate my time denying the ignorance of the Christian cult, it is fruitless.

The idea that you are taking something extremely abstract, that came from the so called "visions" of a random guy who could be on any strong drug or hallucinogen, shows the type of mindset that is being brought to the table in this thread.

Unfortunately the novel entitled "the Bible" isn't the word of god and no one knows what the future really holds for us. I can't begin to fathom how from only a few short and abstract lines, you have pulled this entire conspiracy about Obama out of the air, clearly jumping from A to C without a B. I could make links to myself being the anti-christ using the book of revelation if I looked for it hard enough, translating, picking and choosing which context, dialect, language, etc to use. We all know the chances of that are next to nil in reality and when you reference Nostradamus, your credibility is eroded further.

Just like how religion shouldn't mix with government affairs, religion shouldn't be used as evidence on ATS.

This thread is going to stimulate the mindset of only one type of people, and they are the people I wish to be as far away from as possible when the SHTF.

I must commend you for your avatar, it is just how I pictured you to be after reading this thread.

two thumbs down for being the most ridiculous thread i've read all day (in my humble opinion)

Your post gets two thumbs down because you lack basic reading comprehension.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I read YOUR entire posts just as I read ALL of the OP. But if you either refused to, or failed to, read the OP then you shouldn't be posting a response to him. That's just ignorant.

As JesterMan has already said, you fail to realize that the english Bible is a translation from Greek. Hebrew was the original language, but at some point it was translated to Greek, and then to english. So no credibility lost there by the OP. Some credibility lost by you though.

You're right though, the OP is taking something abstract, reading and researching it, and allowing us to see what his theories are. I guess you're not interested, SO WHY POST? And if you want to assume that the writer of Revelation was high on something, you're free to do that too. I need to ask you though, have you ever heard of/tried peyote, LSD, or DMT? I won't get into the details, but let's just say that the people who use these substances to attain a higher level of understanding have been shown to be more correct about things than many will give them credit for. Still, there is no evidence that the author was high, so it's a moot point.

As OptionFour pointed out, the OP never brought up Obama. So no, this isn't some conspiracy to call Obama the anti-Christ. If you want to post something that is informed and intelligent, you may want to read the post you are trying to shoot down. I mean, COME ON MAN! Your post is just your opinion, (and you're entitled to that), and some BS. As I am always told, you are entitled to your opinion, unless it is blatantly false, and then your opinion in meaningless.

You can believe that Bible's a scam, I really don't care. I get to believe it is true if I so choose, because I live in a free society.

And just for the record, YOU'RE the type of person I'll be happy to avoid when SHTF, so I'm glad to hear you say that. People who bring lies and disinformation into the discussion, attack other people's right to free speech and free expression, dislike ALL Christians in a very prejudiced and false manner, and try to connect the average Christian to some grand conspiracy are people I ALWAYS try to avoid

I could just as easily put all these stories together & make a theory that a guy called bob will ride his white horse past the Whitehouse, fall off, sue the government for 30billion, billion & end the united states through bankruptcy.

The bible is a story book. Nothing more nothing less.

There are no prophecies in the bible. It is a book written by primitive people, with primitive minds and anyone who believes these stories as fact, is as bad as the people who believe that the Federation of Light would appear in our skies.

Sorry, but there are no end times. There have been end times every century since the bible was written & nothing has ever come of it.

Nothing will come of these end time prophecies either.

Stuff happens, and the way this book is written, anything that dose happen can be easily placed in a verse from the bible. Same deal with other prophets during the last few centuries. they make a guess & if something close to that guess happens, then ppl automatically think it's a prophecy come true..lol

I am not a big fan of the Bible, Koran, or of Christianity, Judism, hindu, Islam or any other outlandish religion, basically for one reason.

They all claim to be the "TRUE", religions & they are all made up. All made & conceived my men, not gods, but men.

Religion to me, seems like a form of communism. "Do as we say, because what we say, is what God says".

But anyway, back to the Prophecies. These are nothing more than coincidence, that there have been events that resemble stories from the bible & other holy books. Very cleverly put together by cleaver people to keep the world under their control.

To the OP - I appreciate the work you put into trying to decode Revelation.

The thing is - we don't know if Revelation is from God, is supernatural, or is just the ravings of a man with dementia.

The author was an old man, living in exile, stressed out, and deeply religious. His visions could have been a connection with the supernatural OR it could have been nothing but his own mind misfiring.

The early church, and many saints of the early church, didn't believe Revelation to be worthy of putting in the bible. Easily until the year 500 A.D. it was rejected by many parts of the Christian world. (source - a history of the bible)

Red, thank you for taking the time and energy to research and compile your interpretation for us--I imagine it took a great deal of time.

While I am not a Christian and do not believe that the Bible is prophetic, I am always interested to read the well thought out, respectfully presented interpretations of believers. It is fascinating to read if only for the etymological history and the connections you feel can be made to present history.

Thank you again.

Edit to add: I just knew that by not tying Obama into your prophecy, you would be disappointing a lot of people from both sides. There are many on ATS who are gleefully rubbing their hands together in anticipation of the big connection to Obama as the black horse of Revelation, only to be cruelly let down . And as we can see from this thread already, those who are sympathetic toward Obama can also find great disappointment in this. Shame on you, Red !


[edit on 20/11/08 by paperplanes]

What the hell is going on? behold horese poopy

This is gibberish, man no wonder this planet is so mangled.....'


If what the preached and enforced way back in the day was preached and enforced today....you could get your butt tossed in the looney asap. People would think your nutso.....but over time They religious establishment changes and bend and molds along with society to keep its slaves and to milk the power....

When this never happens gladly commit yourself to a mental hospital for treatment...

If this does happen i'll be in a burning lake of fire deep in the planets core sucking satans ......



And Well I admire and respect the time and effort put fourth into your research and it does make for an intriguing story, but that' is all from me, interesting story but nothing I or many I know dwell on. From our education and perspective.


[edit on 20-11-2008 by GodshipForAll]

I always enjoy reading how/what people see in revelations. I don't exactly agree with them always, but there is usually a point or 2 here and there where the person is onto something that makes it worthwhile.

As I seen mentioned later, horses = judgment. I have always thought that the horses were where people are judged and those who were judged were given the different punishments of each rider.

When it comes to the USA. I have been wondering if the USA is not actually the church of Philadelphia, and the constitution is the key of David.

It is said that the church of Philadelphia is the only church that is right in the eyes of Jesus. I am also wondering if the key of David could possibly be the constitution. Keeping in mind that this country was founded in Philadelphia, not DC. And if the founders of this nation were so enlightened, it could have very well been done on purpose.

7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

The constitution differs from many other countries because it separates church from state. Which in itself allows for religious freedom. Those relgious freedoms keep the door from being closed, and no man can shut it.

David of course took the weak and unwanted of the earth and rose up against the authorities. And that is very close to what happened in the US. If you look deep into the revolutionary war, you will see the main cause for the war was dealing with the central bank of england, which loans money at interest(usury). It represents economic slavery. The only time Jesus ever got violent(didn't hurt anyone tho) was against the money changers, and these people are the money changers of our time.

Jesus represents a free people(truth = freedom) and the constitution represents that as well. The constitution is also one of the biggest targets today, by both parties who ignore it to do what they do. But when in trouble, we have been able to use the constitution for protection of sorts.

9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

People keep blaming the Jews, but here it says these people are not actually jews(or christians either). I think since Christian was not really a term back then, that when they are talking here they are referring to both. As Christians are really just modern day Jews. They ignore the words of Jesus, while worshiping his image. They are very much like the synagogue of Satan, and they surely do lie. But once again, the constitution has been our protection from these people for a long time, and even though they try to combine government and religion(satanic) it has been stopped. It is also of note, that these people are not persecuted at all, they do the persecution.

As you mentioned the USA as a horse, I figured this would be relevant. This synagogue mentioned no doubt persecutes people(judgement), but we have been protected on the inside. So it seems more likely to me that the synagogue is the horse, rather than the entire country.

I'm no expert in these things, this is just what I have gathered that fits the "pattern". It would be great if people had other insights into this. The only thing that somewhat bugs me is that we have also had the central bank for quite a while. But even that has really been marginalized for us in many ways, as a good portion of the inflation has gone overseas. It's just now starting to come back to us. If the constitution were followed in this area though, there wouldn't be a fed.

As the US is such a large player in the world, it seems it would be out of place if it didn't play a rather large role in the events that unfold.


[edit on 20-11-2008 by badmedia]

I got a question.

If God revealed the signs and the profits of the future in the old days, for the prophets to tell. But he told them to put a "seal" on them so no one would understand.

Wouldn't God know which book/Books we would read in our days?
And i mean the Bible and the cor-an.
Since he tells the prophets that this is for the people of the future.

This leads me to think what did God mean by putting a seal on the prophets.

What dose God mean by a seal. What is a seal!

Have dose humans interpret a seal.

Do we think the signs is a seal?

Do we think that in the way the profits are written down in is a seal?

Or are we our selves the seal ?

Have can we brake a seal if we dont know what the seal is. And have could we interpret a profit or a sign if its sealed.

Isn't that the clue???? And God says: only the few will brake the seal.

"Knowledge"










[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]