- continued -
So the rider on this horse is riding on a lack of truth, knowledge, or righteousness, holding a yoke or balance, and a voice is crying out for the continuation of medicines and energy and a continuation of the making of alcohol. I see in this a perfect representation of today in the USA. Besides the references already mentioned to the pharmacy and energy comglomerations, we also have a major push to not interfere with the production of ethanol, which is limiting and raising the price of our food supply (wheat and barley), despite evidence that it does nothing to help energy costs, keeping the people slaves to the economy. In addition, the balances, or scales, are representative of our form of governmental checks and balances. Could the word zugos have a doubly signifant meaning here?

As for Israel and how this also affects them, we are their main allies and the power behind their military technology. We are also the largest Christian nation (in terms of popularity of belief, not in terms of national religion) in the world, and John was a Christian as well as a Jew. We (the USA) are the third horse. It is yet to be seen who exactly the rider is, but I have little doubt it will be one of our Presidents (and possibly George W. Bush himself). We are heading down a pathway where economic devastation will combine with a lack of truth and righteousness to damage (or try to) the Christian faith. This is already evident when one looks at the riots now taking place over the recent Prop 8 vote against churches and overt Christians; despite many calls for an end to violent acts, they are continuing and growing. And this is not only because of the issues surrounding Prop 8; it is raising a deep-seated anger toward the Christian faith from people in general. One can see this very clearly in the various threads and posts on this very forum. I believe this will get worse, and everyone of the Christian faith should be prepared to deal with this coming storm.

Now, who is the fourth horse? In verse 8 we see the fourth and final horse is translated as 'pale' (chloros). This is a mistranslation of chloros. It actually means a pale yellowish or green, and is the same root from which we get chlorophyll, chloroform, and chlorine (the principle element in the two previous examples). Chlorine is also the principle component of the infamous 'mustard gas', due to its being a serious irritant. The color of chloros is traditionally associated with jaundice and gangreen, and therefore by extension with sickness.

The rider's name is 'Death' (thanatos) and is accompanied by 'Hell' (hades). Both terms are related somewhat, with thanatos referring to the pysical death and hades referring to the underworld, considered to be the abode of the wicked dead (this is where we get the dubious concept of hell today). So we have a rider coming into the scene on sickness and disease, whose very name (which in Hebrew custom declared the intent of the person's life and actions) is death, and even after death is an accompanying spiritual torment referred to with hades.

Power (exousia) is not just physical might; it refers to rights, liberty, and the authority of a government. And exousia is given to this rider over one-fourth of the earth (ge). Now, from the context, I believe this time ge would refer to the nations of the earth as a whole, whereas earlier I attributed it to indicate the nation of Israel. The fact that power (exousia) in the form of governmental authority is given to the rider and his accomplise would seem to indicate we are talking about a greater overall area than a single country, as it would be highly unusual and unlikely for someone to have control over a fourth of any country and still be able to carry out what is to come next. If this is true, then only one country can today fit that description: China, home to a quarter of the earth's population.

The purpose of the authority given them is to kill (apokteino) with sword (rhomphaia), hunger (limos), death (thanatos), and with beasts (therion) of the earth (ge). Apokteino is a term used for any method of killing or destruction, including a deprivation of spiritual life, as compared to sphazo which was used with the second rider and refers only to wartime killing, of the physical type only. This is accomplished by using a sword, where rhomphaia is a more specific term than machaira which was used in conjuction with the second horse. Rhomphaia is a large sword, properly a long Thracian javelin designed to be carried across the right shoulder. Simply stated, it is a larger and more terrible sword. Limos refers to hunger from famine or destitution, not to what we tend to think of as simple hunger. Thanatos is the very name of the rider, as mentioned before, and is a horrible fate extending to both physical and spiitual death. I interpret this part of John's vision as being a warning of sorts that actions taken against this enemy are as able to destroy spiritually as they are physically. Hate must be controlled! This emphasizes that the evil that is done by this rider against the jews/Christians is so great that attempts to even fight against it may destroy one in a spiritual sense. In the physical sense, could this be referring to disease that makes the bodies of the dead toxic to others? I get visions of the Black Plague whenever I think about this.

One more thing is listed as being used to kill both physically and spiritually. That would be therion, properly wild or venemous beasts, or by extension, a ferocious man. So we have the following ways this pysical and spiritual killing will be accomplished: by war, greater than those seen in WWII; by famine and economic distress a'la the Great Depression or worse (so great people cannot get food); By stirring up hatred towards others that opposes any organized resistance; By sickness that can possibly make dead bodies deadly in themselves to others (chemical warfare?), and by ferocity from wild animals or ferocious warriors (biological warfare?). All this comes from China, possibly during a time when disease is plaguing them.

That's where I am going to wrap this up for now. I'm tired of typing. Talk amongst yourselves...

TheRedneck


[edit on 19-11-2008 by TheRedneck]

I usually don't go for biblical predictions threads, but this one is very well thought out.

I remember a thread a while back where they OP thought that the Pale Rider had very strong ties to starvation and the color green. He connected this to a scenario in which the "Green" movement took away most of the arible farmland for ethanol production, and so a lof of people starved.

strangely enough i was thinking of Obama after reading the title

but I guess thats just a coincidence after all the talk of him being the antichrist and saviour at the same time...

Why do you say the black horse is referring to Bush? THe black horse to me seems to be referring to Obama (and not just because he is a black man and it is a black horse) other than that, I think this is a very well thought out thread. You did a great job, I will be thinking about this alot.

If we entertain the idea that the horesmen can be organizations rather than individuals, Perhaps the Black horse is tied into Blackwater some how?

Good job Red.

I have always felt that the US would be economically destroyed. This would cause major chaos in the US and we would no doubt be unable to help out Israel. The bible says all nations will turn against Israel. I already see this happening. And if the US is weak, there will be no one to stop other nations from harassing or possibly attacking Israel. You seem to be on to something and I appreciate you contributing what you believe this means.

Beware of false prophets.

Those in favor for the Black Horseman carrying the plan forth.

Revelation and all the prophecies are yet unobvious blueprints for any who WILL WILLINGLY do them the only way they specifically can.

Those that will not do not see yet the Plan.

You do not see the phrase after a thought prophecy: "carry it out with your unique touch if you want such-in-such result/reward."

So carry forth the plan and be yet come a rider. How you carry forth a plan is not up to anyone else. It is only how you interpret the plan and only how you can use some of it if not all of it in any way, shape, or form, for bettering you or us.

I tell you secrets, "those in favor" is why you see the word "I" in any prophesy/prophecy. And those who do carrying the plans forth get heavenly and earthly things sent which fulfill how issued without any further will on their part. It is up to you each! If you will do, you receive rewards. So do plenty and do the big plans.

Hi Red.....I think you did an awesome job ....
I am like you ...just now trying to understand Rev. And Daniel etc ..all the hard to understand books lol....


I have always thought that the horses in Zech .....may be the same horses .
Except that the there is a red horse . ...These passages tell where the horses go ......................maybe it will help your study ..maybe not ..thought I would toss it in anyway ...I cant help because I am about as in the dark as most when it comes to understanding Rev ..Some seems to have been past ..some present ..some future ..and it seems to go back and forth (from past to future then back again ) ...at least thats how I read it ..Maybe it is just me lol ..............

Zec 1:8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that [were] in the bottom; and behind him [were there] red horses, speckled, and white.
Zec 6:2 In the first chariot [were] red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
Zec 6:3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.
Zec 6:6 The black horses which [are] therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Oh, there are plenty of different interpretations, I know. I have heard some that said the book of Revelation was about what had already happened, and gave some convincing evidence, except the timeline didn't work for me. It also didn't explain judgment day at the end.

I completely agree. It's interesting to learn about all interpretations but the preterist view makes the least amount of sense, in my humble opinion, for dozens of reasons.

That brings me to your mention of the mark. It is only mentioned in one place: Revelation 13:16-18. Chapter 12 appears (to me anyway) to begin a new timeline that may or may not carry through into Chapter 13. So it is difficult to place those two timelines together.

Totally understandable. The timeline in Revelation seems to bounce around a bit. The reason I connect the two is because I am convinced the rider on the white horse is the Antichrist while the other three horsemen are symbolic of events. But you're right- the mark definitely comes later and not at the beginning of the AC's 'white horse' (false peace) appearance.

One thing is an obvious precursor, however, and that would be the image of the beast being placed into Jerusalem in Revelation 13:14-15 (as I go back through Revelation to write this I remember coming up with this before, but it might take a little while to dredge back up the supporting evidence; I will do so if someone wants it). I also equate this part of Revelation with the prophesy of Daniel concerning the rough he-goat and the ram. There are some parallels there.

Definitely. I sometimes jokingly refer to the book of Daniel as the Old Testament's book of Revelation. So many parallels are to be found.

Anyone interested in more of the same on other chapters?

Sure, throw it out there.

I'm a little tired tonight but I'll throw in my study on the the first rider. I am convinced he is the Anti Christ. Here's why.

"And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

“Horses” = judgments (2 Kgs 6:15-18; Jer 46:9-10; Joel 2:3-11; Nahum
3:1-7; Zech 1:8-11; 6:1-7).

“Crown”: stephanos, the victor’s crown, not a diadem. Christ will wear
a diadema, the crown of a sovereign, reigning monarch (Rev 19:12).

Rider is NOT Christ: this guy keeps bad company. Christ is opening the
seals: He is not inside them. This rider will resemble Christ; i.e. the Antichrist note the term Antichrist in the formal defintion means a substitute Christ.

Plus, this dude is called by the living creatures; hardly fitting for Christ Himself.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
"And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

And I saw? And I behold?

^^It is implying the "I" is become a white horse and he that sat on "him"...

What you see is you always. What you behold is you always. Otherwise, you wouldnt exist. But if you do not accept such then you are yet not implied in the say of "I" (indication for "those in favor").

The plan is unfolded through the "message" of prophecy. The message is to willingly fulfill the blueprints called prophecies how you wish with your signature touch.

Ha, who hasn't opened Revelations lately lol!

In the back of my mind, I always wonder if our world would be taking the same course (with the one world currency, gov, ID chip, etc) if the Bible never existed. Are there some sick puppies out there trying to make revelations come true? Ponder that for awhile.

I used to watch Dr. Gene Scott way back in the day (when I had TV) and he went over revelations numerous times. What is weird to me, is if this Bible book was meant to be an "Instruction Manual" for our lives, then why in the hell is it so damn confusing and full of weird stuff, and tons of contradictions and such? Don't get me wrong, I know God. But the book has me baffled. I would love to see the "real" writings, those that did not get cut from the cannon, or hidden because they did not fit the church control goals.

Good thread btw! If Obama gets shot in the head and lives, I'm moving to the deepest of deep forests ;-)