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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 10:52 AM by cruzion
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WHat do you mean?, Lamborghini was completly taken in over in '98 by a foreign company: Audi..
Well, Audi is now owned by Volkswagen. They both make damn fine cars.
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 10:58 AM by tsloan
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
There is good reason to bash the American auto industry. From the top down. GM,Ford,Dodge...All have had 15 years to curve the fuel standards before
the government stepped in and MADE a change. For years the auto industry here on the American side have seen the fuel crunch coming. Funny how Japan
has know all along of the impending fuel problems they engineered their designs to weather this type of economical turbulance by building cars that
can be marketed on fuel,design,and performance. The American auto industry had a chance in the 80's to have the Japan engineers come in and help them
stream line their companies. Did they? No the UAW postured for a strike if that happened. So instead of telling the UAW to beat it they caved refused
the help with stream line restructuring from Japan and now are failing!
And they should fail. just like Delta failed,filed and restructured and they are still here. Yes people are going to lose their jobs no doubt. But
just like all the workers for the air line union and all the supplyers that industry supported, they made it! The big 3 auto makers have been running
their companies just like the lenders were running their banks...without checks and balances.
Now if they are forced to restructure they will be forced to cut the fat in the work force. And when they do this it will make them a better company.
No one wants any one to lose their jobs but this is America they chose to take a chance and work in that field and just like my company has it's risk
I made the choice to do what I do. I call it now if they file they will not just dry up and go away.....They will survive you just might not see as
many of those P.O.S. Chevy Malibu max and Ford Edge and Dodge Nitro type cars...
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:00 AM by neonine
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opps sorry never mind this
[edit on 20-11-2008 by neonine]
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:14 AM by pavil
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reply to post by Ex_MislTech
The sad thing is that hardly anyone knows what a Credit Default Swap is or even cares about it. It is the real reason this crisis was allowed to grow
to such proportions.
There is a whole iceberg under the water with the whole Credit Crisis fiasco. When you look into it, you have to just scratch your head and wonder who
in the financial industry thought that the swaps were a good idea.
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:15 AM by tsloan
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Originally posted by ANNED
Letting the US automakers go bankrupt will doom the fuel-cell and electric car in the US. the foreign car makers will have no incentive to make
electric or fuel cell cars if the have no competition from the US automakers.
They also will not have access to the research and patents for the fuel cell and battery tech of US companies.
So they will have to steal this tech and then they would be banned by customs from importing these car into the US under US patent protection laws.
The Chinese have long counterfeited US patent protected products when they are found at US ports they are seized and destroyed.
This would cause any new American clean car technology to be sold to companies overseas and the jobs in this technoligy will go with it and not stay
in the US
What...do you remember the EV-1 electric car that tested so well that the oil companies pulled some strings with Detroit and had ALL of them crushed
after the leases were up? This was in the late 90's.
en.wikipedia.org...
At the end of the production of this car the battery tech was coming along and the up grade kit would allow 300 miles on a charge (300) miles! We have
had the technology since the 90's to build these type cars. It's because of out side influence they were not put into mass production.
Big oil is to blame and our own governemnt, cause if less fuel is used then less fuel is sold and less tax revenue is produced. So don't for a
minute our government doesn't have a stake in what goes on with the oil. If they didn't they would regulate cars that got 70-80 miles to the gallon
but since they rely on the tax dollars you will never see it.
So if the big three fold these programs will not be lost they were never going to be implemented into mass production from the start cause our
government stands to lose to much from fuel tax money. 
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:20 AM by neonine
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reply to post by pavil
i did totally for get about the whole GMAC gig they got into the mortgage market. if anything thats why there complaining the most. i agree with every
one on that aspect of it that was there fault.
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:30 AM by Realtruth
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I think people here better think about this a bit longer, instead of saying let them burn.
How many people do the Auto industry employee? GM 266,000
Ford 87,700 Chrysler 132,130
How many third party companies produces parts for the big 3 in the USA?
How many insurance companies rely on policies from the big 3 and it's employees?
Where do most of the big 3's employees spend their extra income?
How much of the stock market is held up by 401K's from the big 3's employees?
If we don't produce cars here in the USA, but in foreign countries the money flows out of the USA.
Now let's look at the US Government 1.8 million employees, excluding postal workers. And what does the government produce?
Absolutely nothing. I smell this country is going Socialistic. We've lost our edge and the financial market is reflecting it.
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:34 AM by neonine
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reply to post by Realtruth
thankyou for that iv been tring to preach that to every once since page 8 heh no one is looking at the really big picture here
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:41 AM by Helmkat
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Instead of giving the money to the big three who have clearly shown they don't know how to manage their business in the United states they should
instead give the move to start-up innovators who will design vehicles that will severly curtail our dependance on foreign oil.
The big three just blow my mind. You watch TV and the majority of their ads are still pushing gigantic gas guzzling machines and yet they have the
nerve to stand in front of our goverment like homeless children whimpering for a handout.
I'm tired of all the bailouts for everyone but the common man.
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 11:45 AM by neonine
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reply to post by Helmkat
thats actually a fantastic idea give all the rest of as regular joe's a chance to show um how its done. ill gladly take the CEO spot, ill crack the
UAW outa there so fast you'll forget they ever existed.
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 12:42 PM by Foppezao
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There's another thing..Excise in Europe was usually much higher then in the US, if the american people paid any excise on top of their fuel prices at
all..In EUrope as a respond to the higher excise we wanted to drive smaller more fuel efficient cars..but since the oil prices started to rice[in the
long run it will rice again] the Americans suddenly had to think about driving smaller cars and while the industry had all the time responding to
kaizan and kaban management they dont have the time doing that now since prices starting to rice in the US..
Maybe the US government should put some excise on top of the fuel prices, so they' would have earnt some to pay their debts and the industry was
obliged to produce more fuel efficient cars.,, but i ques that sounds to "socialist" right?
btw since lamborghini was bought by audi they finally produced some decent supercars, before that it was totally crap...
[edit on 20-11-2008 by Foppezao]
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 12:42 PM by Jkd Up
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Sorry for the lag in posts!
Foppezao: yes, Lambo has been passed along like a prom queen, but in either 1983, 1984 the auto concern actually was bankrupt. The Italian courts
appointed a new management team to come in and try to turn it around. The CEO that was put in charge and wanted to purchase the concern and did.
Then Chrystler did... Then... Shoot who didn't own it
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 01:09 PM by jefwane
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reply to post by neonine
I don't think I'm missing the point. I understand that an American based automotive industry is an important part of an industrial base. I
understand that the auto industry is one of the few industries that can be relatively quickly retooled to produce almost anything (eg. military
equipment, farm machinery, constuction machinery etc.), but enough is enough let poorly managed companies fail. If a company (supplier, parts maker)
is solely reliant on a poorly managed company for its business then it deserves to fail too. Given the recent performance of .gov intervention into
markets, I don't think the result will be any different in regards to the auto-makers.
Let me restate my case. In the past 14 years I've purchased brand new cars from each of the Big 3. It was more about price and available financing
than anything else though. I can live with any or all of them filling Chapter 11 and reorganizing leaner and more competitively. I can live with some
sort of prepackaged chapter 11 that includes .gov help as long as certain things happen, like voiding UAW contract, closing certain factories, and
repayment of loaned money. I cannot live with another bailout like the banks got, where the fat cats (and I include the UAW in that group with the
auto-makers) benefit most. If the auto-bailout happens in a like manner as happened with AIG, Fannie/Freddie, or the TARP, I swear to God I'll never
buy another Big 3 branded auto in my life. My CONgress people don't listen to me, as a former (albeit small stake) shareholder of both GM and F
management doesn't care about my views, the only means left to me to protest the foolishness in the highest levels of our country is to not support
the idiots with my wallet.
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 01:25 PM by nullster
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It's fairly simple - They (big 3) have already been given 24 Billion for retrofitting plants and producing fuel efficient vehicles. Some people are
completely unaware of this loan - it simply needs to be re-purposed into a bridge loan - end of story.
Bailout Nonsense
Its clear, just like AIG, Fanny and Freddie have already proved - that their accounting books are way of kilter when they negotiated their bailouts.
In 6 months, the automakers will be back asking for more once they know the taxpayer has already sunk billions.
How many more "too big to fail" corporations are going to expect
NOTE: GMAC is now applying for Bank Status - Get part of the 700Billion bail out
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 01:32 PM by neonine
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reply to post by nullster
if you look back to some of my earlier post they are actually still trying to get that money that was never given to them. i have the link to the
news week article there to. i think its on page 8 maybe 9
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 02:25 PM by Realtruth
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A letter I just received via email from Senator Levin.
It says a lot and how many people will and are affected by the Auto industry.
Just remember that dealerships, service/repair stations, stock market and just about everything else would be effected.
Let's see 2.5 million jobs means possibly millions more defaults on homes, billions or trillions being yanked from the stock market/401k's to pay
bills or live off of.
Dear Mr. blanky blank:
Immediate support is needed to shore up our automotive manufacturing sector and to preserve the more than 2.5 million jobs directly and indirectly
linked to the U.S. auto industry. This morning, I testified in front of the House Financial Services Committee to emphasize the need for Congress to
take swift action on behalf of our nation’s automakers. Standing idly by as the financial crisis decimates our domestic manufacturing capabilities
and pulls our fragile economy further into recession is unacceptable.
Throughout the world, the dire financial crisis continues to spur governments to provide assistance to their manufacturing industries, which are not
able to obtain the credit they so vitally need to continue operations. Both Germany and the European Union are studying the possibility of providing
support for their automotive industries. Australia has provided more than $4 billion in funding for its vehicle manufacturers. Automotive
manufacturers in China are already voicing their expectation of financial assistance from their government as well. “The Chinese government will
undoubtedly support us,” says She Cairong, general manager of JAC Motors, a Chinese automobile manufacturer. This quote appeared in a New York Times
article this morning, highlighting China’s consideration of a plan to provide assistance to its domestic automobile companies.
The spotlight is now focused on Congress, which is considering the possibility of rescuing the industry from an economic downturn not of its own
making. President-elect Obama has called the U.S. auto industry “the backbone of American manufacturing” and said that the failure of our domestic
automakers would be “a disaster” for our economy. President Bush, Speaker Pelosi, and both the Majority and Minority Leaders of the Senate agree
that bridge loans for our domestic automakers are necessary at this time. I will continue to work with my colleagues in the Senate and the
Congressional Leadership to come up with a plan that would provide auto manufacturers with the bridge loans they need to weather this financial
storm.
You can read the transcript of my testimony before the House Financial Services Committee by clicking on the following link:
[ levin.senate.gov...]. During these difficult times, I am doing everything within my power to convince the Congress
to provide the bridge loans for the domestic auto industry that the President, the President-elect and the leaders from both houses of Congress
support.
Sincerely,
Carl Levin
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 02:25 PM by tsloan
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Originally posted by Realtruth
I think people here better think about this a bit longer, instead of saying let them burn.
How many people do the Auto industry employee? GM 266,000
Ford 87,700 Chrysler 132,130
How many third party companies produces parts for the big 3 in the USA?
How many insurance companies rely on policies from the big 3 and it's employees?
Where do most of the big 3's employees spend their extra income?
How much of the stock market is held up by 401K's from the big 3's employees?
If we don't produce cars here in the USA, but in foreign countries the money flows out of the USA.
Now let's look at the US Government 1.8 million employees, excluding postal workers. And what does the government produce?
Absolutely nothing. I smell this country is going Socialistic. We've lost our edge and the financial market is reflecting it.
I think you need to think hard about what filing bankruptcy means. When Delta filed they lost 12% of their operating staff... GM,Ford,Dodge are not
going to close thier doors and just vanish...? You people act as if they file bankruptcy means they will vanish? No! They will file. Restructure..yes
jobs will be cut but the company will still be here?
Heaven forbid all the doomsdayers who line the walls in here see the "big 3" file, re-structure under one company and florish because the
re-structuring flushes out some of the stagnate people in the company who have been holding the companies back for years cause they can't see past
chrome door seal stripping and giant chrome grills. These 3 companies have reached their respective growth max as a whole. They can not continue to
operate under the same business plan. If they want to compete on a global market they have to re-structure under one super power American car company.
This will help the market cause then maybe with all them putting their ideas together we can take back our market from Japan.
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 02:32 PM by Realtruth
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reply to post by tsloan
I agree restructuring on all levels is needed, but it seems that we are getting hit from all angles.
Maybe it is time that all of us in the USA need to restructure our lives and this is just Karma saying it's time to wake up.
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 02:38 PM by tsloan
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reply to post by Realtruth
Just a little more insite...all the companies who supply the american car companies might just make parts for other things and their auto parts are a
small operational margin of their business. Your casting the same scale Delta, K-Mart, Fruit of the Loom etc. cast... And as always it wasn't even
close to the numbers they used scare tactics to push for help with. And all those who lose their jobs and have to pull money out of thier 401k
Well....guess what that money that comes out of 401K will be taxed. Which in case you missed it our country is in the crapper and owe money so there
is your domestic tax revenue income from 401K. Then when they use that tax money to pay bills and such and live on...well that stimulates the local
economy as well....So we can go tit-for-tat all day with the Fox news talking points here...
No body here wants people to get job cuts its' awful but it happened to me before and I pulled myself up went to school got my degree and made
better. People will survive this. We will, but some things need to work them selves out and this is one of them. The bank bail out was suppose to keep
this from happening but it didn't and as soon as we bail the auto companies out..Well... "hello" airlines .."again"..and lord only knows what
companies next....Then what?
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 02:41 PM by tsloan
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reply to post by Realtruth
Agree 100% We all have to have a coming to light about the way we live. OR we are going under point blank!
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