Let Detroit Go Bankrupt, page 10

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

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WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

There is good reason to bash the American auto industry. From the top down. GM,Ford,Dodge...All have had 15 years to curve the fuel standards before the government stepped in and MADE a change. For years the auto industry here on the American side have seen the fuel crunch coming. Funny how Japan has know all along of the impending fuel problems they engineered their designs to weather this type of economical turbulance by building cars that can be marketed on fuel,design,and performance. The American auto industry had a chance in the 80's to have the Japan engineers come in and help them stream line their companies. Did they? No the UAW postured for a strike if that happened. So instead of telling the UAW to beat it they caved refused the help with stream line restructuring from Japan and now are failing!

And they should fail. just like Delta failed,filed and restructured and they are still here. Yes people are going to lose their jobs no doubt. But just like all the workers for the air line union and all the supplyers that industry supported, they made it! The big 3 auto makers have been running their companies just like the lenders were running their banks...without checks and balances.

Now if they are forced to restructure they will be forced to cut the fat in the work force. And when they do this it will make them a better company. No one wants any one to lose their jobs but this is America they chose to take a chance and work in that field and just like my company has it's risk I made the choice to do what I do. I call it now if they file they will not just dry up and go away.....They will survive you just might not see as many of those P.O.S. Chevy Malibu max and Ford Edge and Dodge Nitro type cars...

reply to post by Ex_MislTech

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The sad thing is that hardly anyone knows what a Credit Default Swap is or even cares about it. It is the real reason this crisis was allowed to grow to such proportions.

There is a whole iceberg under the water with the whole Credit Crisis fiasco. When you look into it, you have to just scratch your head and wonder who in the financial industry thought that the swaps were a good idea.

Originally posted by ANNED
Letting the US automakers go bankrupt will doom the fuel-cell and electric car in the US. the foreign car makers will have no incentive to make electric or fuel cell cars if the have no competition from the US automakers.

They also will not have access to the research and patents for the fuel cell and battery tech of US companies.
So they will have to steal this tech and then they would be banned by customs from importing these car into the US under US patent protection laws.
The Chinese have long counterfeited US patent protected products when they are found at US ports they are seized and destroyed.

This would cause any new American clean car technology to be sold to companies overseas and the jobs in this technoligy will go with it and not stay in the US

What...do you remember the EV-1 electric car that tested so well that the oil companies pulled some strings with Detroit and had ALL of them crushed after the leases were up? This was in the late 90's.

en.wikipedia.org...

At the end of the production of this car the battery tech was coming along and the up grade kit would allow 300 miles on a charge (300) miles! We have had the technology since the 90's to build these type cars. It's because of out side influence they were not put into mass production.
Big oil is to blame and our own governemnt, cause if less fuel is used then less fuel is sold and less tax revenue is produced. So don't for a minute our government doesn't have a stake in what goes on with the oil. If they didn't they would regulate cars that got 70-80 miles to the gallon but since they rely on the tax dollars you will never see it.
So if the big three fold these programs will not be lost they were never going to be implemented into mass production from the start cause our government stands to lose to much from fuel tax money.

reply to post by pavil

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i did totally for get about the whole GMAC gig they got into the mortgage market. if anything thats why there complaining the most. i agree with every one on that aspect of it that was there fault.

reply to post by Realtruth

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thankyou for that iv been tring to preach that to every once since page 8 heh no one is looking at the really big picture here

reply to post by Helmkat

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thats actually a fantastic idea give all the rest of as regular joe's a chance to show um how its done. ill gladly take the CEO spot, ill crack the UAW outa there so fast you'll forget they ever existed.

reply to post by neonine

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I don't think I'm missing the point. I understand that an American based automotive industry is an important part of an industrial base. I understand that the auto industry is one of the few industries that can be relatively quickly retooled to produce almost anything (eg. military equipment, farm machinery, constuction machinery etc.), but enough is enough let poorly managed companies fail. If a company (supplier, parts maker) is solely reliant on a poorly managed company for its business then it deserves to fail too. Given the recent performance of .gov intervention into markets, I don't think the result will be any different in regards to the auto-makers.

Let me restate my case. In the past 14 years I've purchased brand new cars from each of the Big 3. It was more about price and available financing than anything else though. I can live with any or all of them filling Chapter 11 and reorganizing leaner and more competitively. I can live with some sort of prepackaged chapter 11 that includes .gov help as long as certain things happen, like voiding UAW contract, closing certain factories, and repayment of loaned money. I cannot live with another bailout like the banks got, where the fat cats (and I include the UAW in that group with the auto-makers) benefit most. If the auto-bailout happens in a like manner as happened with AIG, Fannie/Freddie, or the TARP, I swear to God I'll never buy another Big 3 branded auto in my life. My CONgress people don't listen to me, as a former (albeit small stake) shareholder of both GM and F management doesn't care about my views, the only means left to me to protest the foolishness in the highest levels of our country is to not support the idiots with my wallet.

reply to post by nullster

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if you look back to some of my earlier post they are actually still trying to get that money that was never given to them. i have the link to the news week article there to. i think its on page 8 maybe 9

A letter I just received via email from Senator Levin.

It says a lot and how many people will and are affected by the Auto industry.

Just remember that dealerships, service/repair stations, stock market and just about everything else would be effected.

Let's see 2.5 million jobs means possibly millions more defaults on homes, billions or trillions being yanked from the stock market/401k's to pay bills or live off of.

Dear Mr. blanky blank:

Immediate support is needed to shore up our automotive manufacturing sector and to preserve the more than 2.5 million jobs directly and indirectly linked to the U.S. auto industry. This morning, I testified in front of the House Financial Services Committee to emphasize the need for Congress to take swift action on behalf of our nation’s automakers. Standing idly by as the financial crisis decimates our domestic manufacturing capabilities and pulls our fragile economy further into recession is unacceptable.

Throughout the world, the dire financial crisis continues to spur governments to provide assistance to their manufacturing industries, which are not able to obtain the credit they so vitally need to continue operations. Both Germany and the European Union are studying the possibility of providing support for their automotive industries. Australia has provided more than $4 billion in funding for its vehicle manufacturers. Automotive manufacturers in China are already voicing their expectation of financial assistance from their government as well. “The Chinese government will undoubtedly support us,” says She Cairong, general manager of JAC Motors, a Chinese automobile manufacturer. This quote appeared in a New York Times article this morning, highlighting China’s consideration of a plan to provide assistance to its domestic automobile companies.

The spotlight is now focused on Congress, which is considering the possibility of rescuing the industry from an economic downturn not of its own making. President-elect Obama has called the U.S. auto industry “the backbone of American manufacturing” and said that the failure of our domestic automakers would be “a disaster” for our economy. President Bush, Speaker Pelosi, and both the Majority and Minority Leaders of the Senate agree that bridge loans for our domestic automakers are necessary at this time. I will continue to work with my colleagues in the Senate and the Congressional Leadership to come up with a plan that would provide auto manufacturers with the bridge loans they need to weather this financial storm.

You can read the transcript of my testimony before the House Financial Services Committee by clicking on the following link: [levin.senate.gov...]. During these difficult times, I am doing everything within my power to convince the Congress to provide the bridge loans for the domestic auto industry that the President, the President-elect and the leaders from both houses of Congress support.
Sincerely,
Carl Levin

reply to post by tsloan

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I agree restructuring on all levels is needed, but it seems that we are getting hit from all angles.

Maybe it is time that all of us in the USA need to restructure our lives and this is just Karma saying it's time to wake up.

reply to post by Realtruth

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Just a little more insite...all the companies who supply the american car companies might just make parts for other things and their auto parts are a small operational margin of their business. Your casting the same scale Delta, K-Mart, Fruit of the Loom etc. cast... And as always it wasn't even close to the numbers they used scare tactics to push for help with. And all those who lose their jobs and have to pull money out of thier 401k Well....guess what that money that comes out of 401K will be taxed. Which in case you missed it our country is in the crapper and owe money so there is your domestic tax revenue income from 401K. Then when they use that tax money to pay bills and such and live on...well that stimulates the local economy as well....So we can go tit-for-tat all day with the Fox news talking points here...
No body here wants people to get job cuts its' awful but it happened to me before and I pulled myself up went to school got my degree and made better. People will survive this. We will, but some things need to work them selves out and this is one of them. The bank bail out was suppose to keep this from happening but it didn't and as soon as we bail the auto companies out..Well... "hello" airlines .."again"..and lord only knows what companies next....Then what?

reply to post by Realtruth

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Agree 100% We all have to have a coming to light about the way we live. OR we are going under point blank!

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