Originally posted by Tandrli
also the bad side (why his telling story) somehow make monks to close there mouths.. I think that represents the
church and dark ages

I belive the old phonograph style microphone gives it away. The silence represents the Age of Reason, and the triumph of science. In other words, by having professional records available no one wants to hear their neighbors anymore.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by benpadiah
The Joker is the zero card of the tarot trumps. He is the cross-over card between the upper and lower arcana. Symbolising the trickster, or anti-christ, alike Loki in Norse myth, Marduk in Sumerian, and Ra in Egyptian, the Joker conjoins the two supernal-most sefirot, yet is enfused by them with the descent into matter of spirit. Ultimately, the joker is a symbol of blindness.

The Trickster and the Fool are two entirely different archetypes. You're mistaken to confuse the two. The Fool (0 Major Arcana) is more closely tied to the Hero of Joseph Campbell's writings at the beginning of his journey. The Trickster ALWAY has as his underlying goal the intent to deceive, while the Fool survives his naiveté through blind luck.

(Some might argue the Trickster would be more accurately portrayed in the Tarot by the Magician, card #1 of the Major Arcana, though personally, I'm not convinced it's the best fit either...)

Originally posted by JoshNorton
The Trickster and the Fool are two entirely different archetypes.

If you're going to call them "archetypes," you'll be forced to admit they cannot be entirely exclusive of one another, and that, like meanings in a dream, are, by nature, definitively blended and merged, etc. etc. etc. Blah Blah Blah.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
You're mistaken to confuse the two.

~SIGH~ By your own egoistic aggression you prove my point for me. I have no point to prove, so I do not care if you believe I am "right." But you believe I do?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
The Fool (0 Major Arcana) is more closely tied to the Hero of Joseph Campbell's writings at the beginning of his journey.

Insofar as Joseph Cambell's writings follow the "Hero's Journey" chronologically, and insofar as the "Hero" is relative to the main character, or subject, of the entire transformative progression by alpha-numeric sequence of the major arcana of tarot, and insofar as the "fool" card occurs "primally" in the major arcana's sequential set, and insofar as Joseph Cambell's writings can be likened and compared to the tarot's major arcana set in all these ways, yes. That is true.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
The Trickster ALWAY has as his underlying goal the intent to deceive, while the Fool survives his naiveté through blind luck.

Again, insofar as they differ, that's true. However, the similarities, as I proposed initially, are no less nor moreso "right" or "wrong" than your own interpretation.

My only complaint with your post is that you say I am wrong, when in good faith, you cannot prove that claim.

Personally I find the language of myths as abstract "archetypes" in a "collective un-, sub- or conscious" a too easily manipulated medium to be in disagreements over.

PEACE.
- Jon

i just finished watching this movie (the imaginarium of doctor parnassus!) and i have to say that i was surprised that THIS is his last movie as the way the media portrayed heath's death they made it seem as if he died as a result of the joker role...when he was already playing this role...that seems a little unlikely to me. :/
and in the video of jack nicholson...he doesn't say what he warned heath about, just that he warned him. i know i also heard that jack warned of the joker role, but in the video thats not what he said. *shrugs*

anyone actually see THIS movie (and not just the dark knight?) because after seeing this i find it hard to believe that he coincidentally died and the rest of his roles were filled *perfectly* as if it should have been done that way from the get-go...before they heath died. (not to mention the rich symbolism throughout the movie!) terry gilliam even says he did not re-write one bit of the movie after heath died, but the script and EVEN the wording eerily parallels heath's death.

not saying that for sure there was some illuminati sacrifice....but i have to say its much like the rest of the good conspiracies...too many coincidences to say either way for certain. and i personally do believe there was some kind of occult ritual going on with heath..

strange strange things in hollywood, thats for sure.

Near the middle, Heath Ledger still doesn't know his name or who or what he is, where he came from, etc..
Then Dr.Parnassus tells him he was on a mission, doing "Charity work"...after the doctor walks away Heath says,
"Ahh that's correct, I do remember being sent to do charity work....What a fool I was to think I could change the world"

something along those lines....I don't know, seems to be very telling. I'm a believer of him being a sacrifice. The whole idea of the movie is collecting 5 souls...does anyone know if there were 4 other famous deaths around his?