Yep, in Europe we mostly have social democracies. They still have free markets, but are more regulated. Every democracy already has social elements, like social securities.

That's not socialist. And it works. You can still make as much money as you want, you can still own as much as you want etc.

After much research, I came to the conclusion that the parliamentary social democracies in Europe are the best working applicable (in practice) form of democracies. In presidential democracies the power isn't fair balanced. You can see it in the US, where the Republicans had ~47% of the vote, and yet "the winner takes it all".

We already have a parliamentary social democracy here, and it works fine (+4 parties in the parliament from left to liberal to right, leading coalitions of two parties - it's hard to make it over 50% to an absolute majority, working health care and other social securites, free education), but when we look at the Scandinavian countries, they have it a lot better there and their educational system for example works way better. They also have lesser jobless rates.

And I don't have the feeling I have to share anything, or don't live in a democracy.

Communism isn't a bad thing. It just isn't something I want or want to see. I believe it makes people happy in life. Why to be sad if you are going to get richer and happier? Why ng. It just isn't something I want or want to see. I believe it makes people happy in life. Why to be sad if you are going to get richer and happier? Why to be poor? Would you still have dummy people in a socialist society? No. I like the way it makes the people free upon the our rogue government rather than the other way around. Welcome back the USSR!to be poor? Would you still have dummy people in a socialist society? No. I like the way it makes the people free upon the our rogue government rather than the other way around. Welcome back the USSR!

Originally posted by SiONiX
After much research, I came to the conclusion that the parliamentary social democracies in Europe are the best working applicable (in practice) form of democracies. In presidential democracies the power isn't fair balanced. You can see it in the US, where the Republicans had ~47% of the vote, and yet "the winner takes it all".

I have to point out that the United States is not a democracy, but more a republic. There are some pretty big differences between the two, so that is not a true comparison.

It's just patently false that the wealth of any society is some individual's " my money".
Besides the fact that there are just as many people in this Country(U.S.) who pay taxes and WANT, security nets, and enough of the basics for all our citizens; there is the fact that there are very few individuals in this Country who pays enough taxes in their lifetime to cover the cost of even a hundred feet of roadway.

Most of our taxes, we get back at the end of the year. Combine that alongside the millions of people who engage in tax dodges and a thousand other different schemes to avoid paying, nobody is really paying anything in this Country for what we get.

Despite all the cries of "my taxes , my money!" nobody is really paying any taxes in this Country(U.S.), the money is just twirling around in a circle,from our pockets, to the government's pockets and back to ours. That's why the National debt is so high. We don't pay for anything.

Individuals are just working for benefits to themselves when they pay taxes, yet so many want to try to hold influence a million miles beyond what they contribute.

It's the entire society who pays for infrastructure and safety nets and most of that is paid for by big business--not taxpayers. For all it's history, big business in the U.S. got most of their wealth from the real working class in this Country, and the world--either through slavery, exploitation, or outright robbery.

Millions of people in this Country who don't have jobs now, paid into those highways, hospitals, institutions and electric cables etc; when they did have jobs. The infrastructure of this Country wasn't built yesterday.

A lot of old people in the U.S., live worse than stray dogs because the cost of medicine is so high. In my opinion they spent a lifetime paying for the right to get everything they need, and most of what they want for free. Their suicide rate is the highest in the Country, but because so many people in this Nation can't see anything but race, and their own navel, we let millions of our old people live out their waning years in pure mental torment. Some people in this country hear the word social and immediately see black in their minds. Meanwhile tens of millions of people of all races, old, young, infants, disabled, Veterans--overwhelmingly white--are living as stressful and hard as the poor in some "third world" Nations.

If people want to think that mine is all mine, in a society, then they should stop using the roads; they should stop using anything that was paid for and built by all of us, and never leave the cul de sac in their suburbs and neighborhoods. They should build a walmart, McDonalds, gas station, hospital, police station and hardware store at six points and just drive around on that circle.

Their little pittance in the collective pot don't give them the right to dictate the policy for all of us.

Despite all the propaganda coming from our "fellow" citizens to the rest of the world, millions of Black Americans work and pay into this society and millions more--retired like me-- or unemployed now, have paid for decades and have contributed for a lot longer than a lot of these "all mines" have. And for every Black American behind the eight ball, there are three other Americans composed of all ethnics, behind the nine. Add to them the 50 percent or more of Americans who don't mind their taxes being used like all the other civilized Nations; there you have the majority of taxpayers paying into the system.

Lots of guys like me, has literally worked like a mule in our lives. I've actually built all those things that the "All mines" benefit from; that they will never pay the true value of, and never got rich, or even well-off from my hard work. Besides my income tax refund at the end of the year and what I paid for years into, I never got a dime from this Government or this society and don't expect to. But it doesn't make me froth at the mouth to think that somebody who might not have worked as hard as I did, might be getting what he or she needs to live like a valued person. I don't care if they have never worked. I know it's not really costing me anything if somebody gets free, or low rent in a land of a million abandoned structurals--or a 50 dollar book of food stamps to buy food in a land where a million tons of perfectly good food is thrown out everyday.

Millions of apartments and dwellings lie vacant in this Country because of this need by some to punish people for economic failures that more often than not were beyond their control. Nobody is benefiting from empty housing, but what's most important to some--over even the ability to pay the rent-- is the need to punish people for a bad credit report.
That's why the government got into the realestate business in the first place. Too many people who hate to see others get back up when they fall down, or to get anything at all. Mind you these are not the people who own the properties, these are just desk jockies excersicing their little personal vendettas and who are just one paycheck from being in the same position themselves. But people can never visually put themselves in the shoes of others no matter how close in size their feet are.

If the government hadn't used the law, and forced all the Midwives, Rootswomen and Herbalists out of business, poor people wouldn't need to depend on the medical system near as much. The less blessed in this Country had complete health care at one time, and it was a hell of a lot better than what passes for care now; where you're more likely to leave the hospital sicker than you were when you went in there. Not to mention the cost.

There's a reason why European Nations, Canada and homogenous "first world" societies like Japan and China have no problem with "socialist" policies.

If the U.S., had those Nation's population makeup, it wouldn't have such a big problem with "socialism either. We saw with the recent trillion dollar bailout how much the "all mines" hate socialism when socialism is used to help the institutions that hold THEIR wealth. And after this coming depression, we are going to see more of how much the "all mines" hate socialism. When they become hungry and jobless, that's when all the rules, convictions and sacrosanct legends change. In the meanwhile other people suffer for want of a pittance.

We need a completely democratic socialist system with trade unions, and no government

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
We need a completely democratic socialist system with trade unions, and no government

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Anarchy! ME TOO. Sericously me too. I would love it.

I want a Zapatista style government.

Originally posted by mary noory
Communism isn't a bad thing.

You lie.

Communism is the Worst thing.

Originally posted by jam321
It is right around the corner.

Socialism isn't a bad thing. It just isn't something I want or want to see. I believe it makes people less productive in life. Why work hard if you are still going to get an equal share? Why study? Would you still have rich people in a socialist society? I also don't like the way it makes the people dependent upon the government rather than the other way around.

Equal share? That's communism NOT socialism. Are you a US citizen by any chance they usually get the two very confused.

Some socialist thinkers use 'socialism' and 'communism' synonymously. I think more accurate to say that communism falls under the socialism branch.

Generally speaking though, on an economical level they certainly share much in common. But I am not really sure how you are meaning with 'equal share'.. Equal in that the wealth/production is distributed equally according to need? According to the workers output? Or just a flat out equal distribution? Something else?

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

One Word..PROFIT..As long as there is money involved, socialism will never prosper. If you want a free nation, a nation without poverty, a nation without greed, and a nation truly dependant on itself and its own clean resources,
then you are looking at a total change in the way our govt works. Our monitary system is the only thing stopping us from making that possible.
everything this world revolves around, is money. Money is a form of paid slavery, with interest. Back in the day, slavery was paid by giving the people shelter and food for trade. Today, slavery is run differently, people get paid to be sheltered and being able to eat. It is a form of slavery ran by Money. Without money, no matter what govt you are running in, you have no way to survive. The only way to free people from poverty and a true way of life, is to get rid of the monitary system altogether, for it is ultimately doomed, and there is no possible way of "balancing the budget".
Every dollar printed, costs (around $20) to make, because of loans from the federal bank, to our govt(which is made to pay back with bonds and interest). Home loans, car loans, ect ect.. is money that is being given out, that doesnt even exist in the first place. Its money made out of thin air.
The banking system runs all of the worlds governments, the governments dont run the nations, the banks do! So the more that we accumulate from these banks, the more we get in debt, because we never had the money in the first place. If every American paid off thier debt, and all of the debt owed in the united states was paid off, our country would only be left with $1(and thats being generous). So until we have the monitary system going, the more greed there is going to be within our nation. You have to think of socialism like this (Robbing from the rich to give to yourselves) Its not the govt doing this to you, its the financial institutions doing this to you. You think its just the govt that causes most of the conflict in the world, when really its the Federal reserves that leaves the govt. with no choice but to rob from other nations in order to make their own nation survive. Which leads to World hunger, starvation, murder, crimes, and poverty. America is a great nation, but it has darker sides than any other nation on the planet. Eventually, we are going to fall victim to our own
ignorance of how things really work, and its already happening(just look at our institutions today). We have accumulated over $10 trillion dollars indebt, not to mention the other trillions of dollars that are about to be spent. TRILLIONS of dollars, that came out of thin air with nothing to back it up with. All of that money you make every week from work, is money being paid to you that is already owed to somebody else, it holds no value.
We are amongst the greatest depression man has ever seen, and as we keep consuming goods of products that are owned by the banks(news stations, oil companies, tv stations ect) we will never get out of it.
The only way for a better life, is to get rid of the monitary system, and developing a system available for all people, and that is a Resource Based Economy. No Money, No politicians, no bankers, no crime, nothing but a free high standard living for everyone. And I am going to leaveit at that.
Thank you.
(if you dont agree with this post, then please, say something, because nothing ever gets done if people dont ask questions. We will always be stuck in the same culture based off of old beliefs, old ideas, and an old understanding of how things really ought to work)

Gordon Brown? He just walked right in....literally a dictator no approvement from the people he now has rule over...no better than if any stranger walked in and took office with no say from the public.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Solomons]

No different from the vice president taking over should the president resign.