I want socialism.

This is what people in Europe don't seem to understand about America.

America has 300+ million people European countries have less that 50 million people.

America has welfare, Unemployment, Unions, Public Education, Sick leave, I think the only thing that America doesn't have compared to Europe is Universal Health Care.

So everybody complaining about how America sucks and this and that yea well we need to elect better leader for our governments.

Personally all those social programs that we have now that are run by the government sucks, why do people want to give more power to the government so they can screw that up too. Also we have Social Security, didn't take long for the politicians to dip into that and now they owe money to that.

We also have given 10+ trillion dollars to the War on Poverty started by LBJ.

People need to open up and realize that America is already a semi-socialist country, which the government can't run right. Partly because we have 5X many people than the countries in Europe.

Those social programs don't work here so I don't know why people want to expand that even more. America is supposed to be a free country and if people had more money in their pockets they would probably give more money to the charities like United Way, that offers food at discount prices so people can eat, or Habitat for Humanit, that builds houses for people and they're mortgage is only like $250 a month, those charities would have more money to help more people.

The problem is our government, and personally I want it our lives because it is to the point where they think they know what is better for us.

i believe we should live more by Ayn Rand's concept of objectivism in which we live in a laiesse faire capitalist society where we live independent and self reliant of each other, and governments sole purpose is to simply protect the nations people and enforce the laws.

whoops

[edit on 11/18/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
You people have a really hard time giving up a part of your money in order to help your neighbor don't you...??

You people really have a hard time understanding that maybe we want to choose how and when we help our neighbor and not be forced to do it.

If I am taxed more, then I will not be able to give my money, clothing, food, etc to the local women's and children's shelter in which I help.

Maybe I dont think some people deserve free handouts from me. Maybe I think some people do and those are the people I CHOOSE to help.


Just because people are against our hard earned money being taken from us by the government does does NOT mean we do not help others in need.



And what was the last voluntary help you gave to others? Or do you just help because you are forced to?

[edit on 11/18/2008 by greeneyedleo]

In Europe Conservatives believe in education, welfare, healthcare, and while we're at it police and army. The idea that it is immoral to take taxes from the individual for the collective is our initial protection. It protects our banking system, and I mean the vaults physically, not necessarily this bail out.
The reason in Europe we pay for education, welfare and healthcare is that we all have a vested interest in keeping well, so we try to bestow it on each other.
To Americans, I think this seems socialist, but in Europe it is pretty universal.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
America has 300+ million people European countries have less that 50 million people.

Oh boy...thats a BIG understatement


1 Azië
3.958.768.088

2 Afrika
910.844.133

3 Europa
729.270.329

4 Latijns-Amerika
561.827.566

5 Noord-Amerika
331.672.307

6 Oceanië
33.138.082


It is in dutch but i guess you can understand this right....

Agreed in the EU as a collective i think we are pretty happy with the way we operate,we all look out for each other,and its a small price to pay.I think Americans are just scared of the unknown more than anything,but you are heading into socialism slowly though.

reply to post by operation mindcrime




That is as a collective Europe might have 728 million people total but those people are all living under different governments. Europe is not one big government.

I guess you also missed that part in my post where I said European Countries have less than 50 million people. As in Each European country has less than 50 million people.



[edit on 18-11-2008 by Hastobemoretolife]

Originally posted by Solomons
Agreed in the EU as a collective i think we are pretty happy with the way we operate,

Really? I usually hear nonstop complaining about the EU. You can see many posts from Europeans here denouncing the beaucratic system controlling them from Brussels.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
But for the tax part....why is it working so well over here??
I feel in no way enslaved and b'cause every one is paying the same there is no difference in what everybody keeps in the end.

Really? Everyone's paying a fixed established amount, such as $500 (or whatever currency and fixed amount) every month, and not that percentage amount, which is NOT the same amount (but rather a slick sly penalty for being more successful and earning more)?

As far as "it all working well over there", well, so was the same said of social security over here once upon a time. Now social security is projected to be 60 trillion in the hole. You'll see the same one day, or rather, your descendants will. And golly, will they ever thank you all for that some day, LOL.

The politicians that implement these socialist ideals simply promise to do so simply to get elected (cough cough Obama). To bad they aren't around when these whacky ideas implode later on down the road.

And as far as those crying about those living in the gutters, well I'm sorry to inform you that they are not my responsibility, my own are, and I'm nobody else's keeper or mommy or daddy. Now with that said, I do have a heart, but not when someone puts a law and a gun to my head and forces me to care. No way under those circumstances.

And yeah, we have social programs here to catch those that for whatever reason can not and do not take care of themselves, but all that is about to implode too and come to a grinding crash when the US goes bankrupt next year. Then it will be every man, woman, and child for themselves and their own, as it should be and can be. And only voluntary charity will save them needing help and not any screwed up domineering and enslaving government with whacky ideas that can not sustain itself indefinitely.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
You people really have a hard time understanding that maybe we want to choose how and when we help our neighbor and not be forced to do it.

We can most certainly understand this and we find this very funny....

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
If I am taxed more, then I will not be able to give my money, clothing, food, etc to the local women's and children's shelter in which I help..

If you would maybe there wouldn't be women and children shelters
(on a side note: you really have shelters for children..??? i really did not know this and i am shocked)

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Maybe I dont think some people deserve free handouts from me. Maybe I think some people do and those are the people I CHOOSE to help...

And who are these people you don't feel like helping out??

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Just because people are against our hard earned money being taken from us by the government does does NOT mean we do not help others in need.

And these people are chosen at your discretion the rest just has to relly work hard to make friend in order to be helped out.....

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
And what was the last voluntary help you gave to others? Or do you just help because you are forced to?.

Actually
-i bring people to the hospital chapel every sunday morning...very rewarding and lots of fun
-volluntary firemen (these guys are the real heroes!!!!!)

Originally posted by switching yard
All of y'all that are so fearful of socialism, look at Norway, Sweden, and The Netherlands and tell me, specifically, what's wrong with them?

Hey, why not just get back to the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights?

The Fed is unconstitutional. The I.R.S. is unconstitutional. The Bill of Rights went out with The Patriot Act.

I am just curious, but what do these things have to do with socialism? If you are trying to equate Bush's policies as the opposite of socialism then you are mistaken. I am against socialism and also am not for Bush's policies such as the Patriot Act and the Bush doctrine.

I am a firm believer in a free market. I have seen many say that they want the rich to pay taxes like they are supposed to, but noone says, "I wish poor people would pay taxes like thier supposed to." Do some research, the top money makers in the country pay the most taxes. Why be critical of that? That bracket of society also employs a large sum of the workforce.

Free markets breed competition, feeds ambition, drive, and is a beautiful thing. To say that poor people stay poor because of the system is a fallacy. If that were true, how can foreigners come here and make a living for themselves and people born here cannot? Well, maybe they sacraficed something that others were not willing to. I for one do not want anyone's hands in my pockets.

If you like Norway so much, buy a plane ticket.

Is it me, or are we just the first Adaptable government in human history, A capatalist government is a government where laws are no longer made of stone but of bendable plastic.

We are a flexible, indistructuble polymer goverment, *you get the point*

we can be seen as a Democracy, Republic, Socalist, Communistic, Facist, Dictatorship, and sadly enough maybe that is what is necessary in these Modern times.

We can no longer just be a government of old times, the world is to big and to moves to quickly, only those that adapt will survive.

Hence I think the creation of the U.N.

[edit on 11/18/2008 by FoxStriker]

Originally posted by thetrooper7
i believe we should live more by Ayn Rand's concept of objectivism in which we live in a laiesse faire capitalist society where we live independent and self reliant of each other, and governments sole purpose is to simply protect the nations people and enforce the laws.

You got my vote in 2012!

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by Solomons
Agreed in the EU as a collective i think we are pretty happy with the way we operate,

Really? I usually hear nonstop complaining about the EU. You can see many posts from Europeans here denouncing the beaucratic system controlling them from Brussels.

Thats a different matter,i simply mean we on the whole have the same ideas about how to help and look out for each other as a society.I think the large majority of Europeans will agree.I cant imagine living the way some americans would like to,but thats cultural differences i guess.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

That is as a collective Europe might have 728 million people total but those people are all living under different governments. Europe is not one big government.

I guess you also missed that part in my post where I said European Countries have less than 50 million people. As in Each European country has less than 50 million people.



[edit on 18-11-2008 by Hastobemoretolife]

You have not heard of this new thing called the European Union. ...

BY the way :
germany - 86 million
france -60 million
Italy - 60 million

Netherlands - 16 million.....

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Really? According to wiki upload.wikimedia.org... they all have less than 50 million.

So now the European Union makes all the laws and everybody pays taxes out to EU and the Netherlands, Norway, Italy, UK, Germany all don't have separate governments? That is new to me I figured that would be big news if all of Europe decided to ban together and operate under one government.

Either way the USA has 300+ million people all living under one government system. And I can go on in the ways the USA and the European countries are different.

So really I don't see what you are trying to point out or prove by skewing the numbers.

reply to post by Divinorumus



I feel a lot of anger....

Sorry for the one liner

but it's 01:30 in the morning over here and that's the 6th night in a row i'm gonna have way to little sleep.....

remember socialism is not the same as being social

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

You have not heard of this new thing called the European Union.

So if I understand you correctly, you have just verbally bowed your knees to the EU. You forgo any national sovereignty and no longer claim any civil duty but to the EU. You are now a servant to a one continent state?

Wouldn't it be great to take all the best parts of the way other countrys are operating and adapt only the best parts... But wait a minute... Wasn't that Democracy?