I want socialism.

socialism is BS. I do not think equality should be for everyone because people that work harder than others will get the same treatment as people who are lazy in life. this is the same BS as when you were in school playing baseball, and every team gets a trophy so the losing teams dont cry at the end. thats socialism, and i want it nowhere near me.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


I agree with the post by ofhumandescent

Originally posted by Swatman
socialism is BS. I do not think equality should be for everyone because people that work harder than others will get the same treatment as people who are lazy in life. this is the same BS as when you were in school playing baseball, and every team gets a trophy so the losing teams dont cry at the end. thats socialism, and i want it nowhere near me.

Biggest misconception out there.

I used to dig trenches 4-6 feet deep 2 feet wide ALL DAY LONG on frozen ground. For 12 dollars an hour, this was early 90's.

It's not a question of who works harder, it's a question of who works smarter.

I'd bet the rich folk work alot less hard, and sit on their butt for more hours a day than the middle class.

Hey maybe we'll see when the War of the classes break out. How well the rich do in a fight with thier manicured hands, that have been counting daddy's money,against guys who have caliced hands from swinging sledgehammers,and picks, and digging trenches for a living.

P.S. a tip, take off your tie before you attempt to fight a working class man.

All my life I heard the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Are some poeple pumping out kids and working the systaem, and lazy? sure there are. Just like theres rich people who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth or made thier living through illegal activities. Same crap.

But what of me alegitimate american cut down in theprime of his life, unable to worl because I can barely walk, and all I know is heavy tradework? I don't have the funds to pay for schooling and the gov aint paying it. They give me $600 a moth. I'm slowly starving, to death mentally and physically. I was born and raised in America.

Why should homeless folk from other countries get finacial, and housing help before me? is not fair.

And to the person with the avatar with the people at the window....

"The I'm mad as hell speech was just a joke sheesh, lighten up."

You all just remember Karma. It is real. So treat your fellow man the best you can. Just a bit of advice.

Utopia. No money. Everyone works and helps for the greater good community. Someone gets hurt, the others pitch in to help. Lazyness would not be tolerated of course. Wow is this thread filled by a bunch of whiny bastards. Well practice that wine, cause your yatchs are gonna be sold off cheap, and the money is gonna go into the poorer towns of America. Obama has you rich white people right where he wants you, Haha, be afraid, be very afraid.

Nope some people can't handle that though, they believe it's thier godgiven right to be rich cause of thier namesake, lets knock them down a few pegs first. Then we'll go after those who became rich illegally, insider trading,scamming others, sellign drugs, pharmacudical(sp/) co. ect.

I'd love to see these people,in heaven (well maybe the 1 % that make it) reach in thier pocket, and try to pay thier way to a better seat closer to the throne of god, then realize, oh noes, all I've worked for my toys, my money it doesn't mean anything here. Worst off, I have no friends here.

Socialisms, Socialism is on it's way, Socialism is coming, try to stop it? theres no way!. Everyone now! Sing it!

Ah I can't wait till the day comes I can say Yes, as the Rich get poorer, the poor get richer, and man/woman/ black/white/yellow/purple becomes equal.

Originally posted by Swatman
socialism is BS. I do not think equality should be for everyone because people that work harder than others will get the same treatment as people who are lazy in life. this is the same BS as when you were in school playing baseball, and every team gets a trophy so the losing teams dont cry at the end. thats socialism, and i want it nowhere near me.

Not everyone has the ability, nor every person the opportunity.
Some places have drought while others have plenty,
and economies of men seek drought amongst the people to profit.

What about the elderly, or the widow, the homeless or the unemployed?

The only BS is the arrogance of he who thinks he who thinks he makes his own, and does not let his cup overflow into that of others in need.

Jesus Christ delivered that message, for whatsoever you do or do not do unto the least of your people, you have done unto him.

Peace

Originally posted by Nola213

Originally posted by Swatman
socialism is BS. I do not think equality should be for everyone because people that work harder than others will get the same treatment as people who are lazy in life. this is the same BS as when you were in school playing baseball, and every team gets a trophy so the losing teams dont cry at the end. thats socialism, and i want it nowhere near me.

Biggest misconception out there.

I used to dig trenches 4-6 feet deep 2 feet wide ALL DAY LONG on frozen ground. For 12 dollars an hour, this was early 90's.

It's not a question of who works harder, it's a question of who works smarter.

I'd bet the rich folk work alot less hard, and sit on their butt for more hours a day than the middle class.

Hey maybe we'll see when the War of the classes break out. How well the rich do in a fight with thier manicured hands, that have been counting daddy's money,against guys who have caliced hands from swinging sledgehammers,and picks, and digging trenches for a living.

P.S. a tip, take off your tie before you attempt to fight a working class man.

All my life I heard the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Are some poeple pumping out kids and working the systaem, and lazy? sure there are. Just like theres rich people who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth or made thier living through illegal activities. Same crap.

But what of me alegitimate american cut down in theprime of his life, unable to worl because I can barely walk, and all I know is heavy tradework? I don't have the funds to pay for schooling and the gov aint paying it. They give me $600 a moth. I'm slowly starving, to death mentally and physically. I was born and raised in America.

Why should homeless folk from other countries get finacial, and housing help before me? is not fair.

And to the person with the avatar with the people at the window....

"The I'm mad as hell speech was just a joke sheesh, lighten up."

You all just remember Karma. It is real. So treat your fellow man the best you can. Just a bit of advice.

Utopia. No money. Everyone works and helps for the greater good community. Someone gets hurt, the others pitch in to help. Lazyness would not be tolerated of course. Wow is this thread filled by a bunch of whiny bastards. Well practice that wine, cause your yatchs are gonna be sold off cheap, and the money is gonna go into the poorer towns of America. Obama has you rich white people right where he wants you, Haha, be afraid, be very afraid.

Nope some people can't handle that though, they believe it's thier godgiven right to be rich cause of thier namesake, lets knock them down a few pegs first. Then we'll go after those who became rich illegally, insider trading,scamming others, sellign drugs, pharmacudical(sp/) co. ect.

I'd love to see these people,in heaven (well maybe the 1 % that make it) reach in thier pocket, and try to pay thier way to a better seat closer to the throne of god, then realize, oh noes, all I've worked for my toys, my money it doesn't mean anything here. Worst off, I have no friends here.

Socialisms, Socialism is on it's way, Socialism is coming, try to stop it? theres no way!. Everyone now! Sing it!

Ah I can't wait till the day comes I can say Yes, as the Rich get poorer, the poor get richer, and man/woman/ black/white/yellow/purple becomes equal.

And it is crazy people like this which is the reason i own a good amount of fire arms. try and take democracy from me. you will have to take it out of 50% of americas cold dead hands.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

I want socialism.

Education for everyone, rich people paying their taxes like they are supposed to, free health care? I like the sound of that.

I think that the philosophy of socialism is better than the philosophy of the current neocons, which is, we invade other countries to spread Democracy. The neocon philosophy doesn't work because we can't invade countries to spread Democracy because they may not want that.

I just think we need a different approach. What's so wrong about socialism? Why shouldn't people get more benefits? They need more health benefits since their companies don't give employees them.

I like how socialist policies usually take a stance in favor of worker's rights. Workers need rights.

I think that this socialism label is just thrown around too much and it's been given a negative label by conservatives.

What's so bad about socialism?

Boy, do you need a good lesson in economics!
Who do you think will PAY all these people? In your "paradise" socialist state, how can there be ANY "rich people" to pay the taxes? Rich people and socialism cannot co-exist. You just want the land of milk and honey, but you have no idea of how that comes about. It comes about by having those "rich people" that you despise working their way up the ladder, people like Bill Gates, creating companies that succeed, then invests in growing those companies, and hiring people. Without the Bill Gates of the world, there would be very few jobs, you wouldn't be sitting in front of a computer, and making the ridiculous comments you are making.Your ideas are nothing more than a continuation of the welfare state that people like you love, people that want to just sit around, do very little and collect from the industrious ones. Well, guess what- the Bill Gates of this world are not going to let that happen. Why not? Because they can pick up and go somewhere that doesn't take their wealth away, and take his jobs with him.
I can't believe the naiveté of people like you, who have no understanding of where jobs come from.

Furthermore, like a few of my fellow posters, there is no way I will allow our democracy to become a slave state, slave to the socialists, who have no regard for our Constitution, our Founding Fathers, and those who gave their lives to keep us free from socialism, communism, or whatever you wish to call your welfare, deadbeat ideals.
If you want socialism, go to Europe.

^ right on brother. rock on

OK, sounds great. You pay according to your means, I'll lounge around and collect according to my needs. Get to work chump slave. Bwaaahahahha.

Thanks so much for the discussion. I guess I like to stay away from the black and white judgements regarding socialism.

I have read the only thing that has changed regarding Universal Healthcare in the US is corporate America's attitude. The theory is that corporate America no longer wishes to incur the expense for private health insurance. In other words they believe it is not cost effective or good business to provide health insurance. Well good! Here is our chance for single payer and I hope we get it!

On a scale between liberty and equality I drift more towards the equality side. I see socialism as a sort of baseline existence to which society agrees.

Free market neocon ideology has been thoroughly discredited and will be abandoned.

Why is it that we are being forced to choose between two evils when there are other options out there? Just because the two major players...i.e. Republicans and Democrats seem to have a lock on electable candidates, this means that these are our only choices?

I, for one, do not choose socialism nor neo-conservatism. I refuse to become brainwashed and exploited so that some group who hasn't had our interests in mind for many, many years maintains control.

We sure do need change, but that isn't what was elected.

Wait and see...

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Freenrgy2]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Education for everyone, rich people paying their taxes like they are supposed to, free health care? I like the sound of that.

.....................................

I think that this socialism label is just thrown around too much and it's been given a negative label by conservatives.

What's so bad about socialism?

I went thrue a stage where i once believed Socialism is the best idea in the world. Do you want the trueth? it is! Unfortunetly it never works out, people are just greedy by nature, The IDEA of socalism is great but whenever you look at countries which have embraced it you see that they have failed and/or colapsed, or are constantly on the verge of collapsing. Just look at the differences between the health of the people living in North and South Korea... Same enviroment, same weather, same everything, but totally different expected life spans of their people!!!

In theory socialism works, but once you add the human factor it fails,

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
Furthermore, like a few of my fellow posters, there is no way I will allow our democracy to become a slave state, slave to the socialists, who have no regard for our Constitution, our Founding Fathers, and those who gave their lives to keep us free from socialism, communism, or whatever you wish to call your welfare, deadbeat ideals.
If you want socialism, go to Europe.

Tell that to AIG, GM, Ford, Chrysler, and and all who are getting a helping hand from the Feds. I guess non competitive and corrupt capitalism needs the help of the collective to keep it going. A real irony.

While you say you wont allow it to happen, what is happening is exactly what your not supporting.

What the Fed is doing, is weeding out corruption, and taking care of some of the people that are not taken care of by the system.

Not for it? Wake up. Your already in it. Take a look in the phone book to federal agencies and watchdogs that have to be put in place to keep the capitalist market in line.

Its not a matter of whether your for it; what is right will be done as it is the right thing to do. We the collective speak, and not merely the will of the selfish few.

Peace


[edit on 19-11-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Ok to have the Goverment do everything for you & accepting handouts IS socialism and marxist. Ok for instance Jim Jones he wasnt religous he was Marxist, one of his fallowers said this, "We turned our paychecks over every time we got paid and then we got an allowance, $5 a week. If I had to go to the doctor, it was taken care of. If I had to go to the dentist, it was taken care of. If I needed clothes, that was taken care of. You tend to not really think for yourself, and I did allow Jones to think for me because I figured if he had the better plan. I gave my rights up to him, as many others did."
You hear that, we had healthcare, we had a dentist. They thought for us. How many people do you know that aren't thinking for themselves? Think for yourself. Believe in yourself. Where are we as a nation? Where are we as a people? We've come so far. And in the last 100 years we have just, just started to just say, "Okay, well, whatever, they can take that; I don't have to think about." Why are there homeless on the streets in New York? Why are things so bad in New York? Because we let the government of New York take care of everything.
Now is that the kind of world we want, someone to do everything for us to where we dont have to think for ourselves. As i stated Jim Jones who killed 918 people with tainted flavor aid in the late 70's was to me the Marxist preacher, the Marxist hero of the city, the guy who's going to help turn everything around. is an attack on traditional values. There is an attack that is coming on people who believe in the Constitution. You don't have to believe what I believe. That's okay. But every time these socialist nightmares go bad, it ends in millions of deaths. Every time one of these socialist nightmares go down, all, you know, anybody who's following from 10 to 918 to 50 million in Stalin's case, dead.
What I think that they are preaching right now is just as deadly and that is dependence, and dependence on others and dependence on the government and Marxism.

reply to post by HIFIGUY

Tell that to AIG, GM, Ford, Chrysler, and and all who are getting a helping hand from the Feds. I guess non competitive and corrupt capitalism needs the help of the collective to keep it going. A real irony.

While you say you wont allow it to happen, what is happening is exactly what your not supporting.

What the Fed is doing, is weeding out corruption, and taking care of some of the people that are not taken care of by the system.

Not for it? Wake up. Your already in it. Take a look in the phone book to federal agencies and watchdogs that have to be put in place to keep the capitalist market in line.

Its not a matter of whether your for it; what is right will be done as it is the right thing to do. We the collective speak, and not merely the will of the selfish few.

The fight is just begun. I am 100% against all of the bailouts, and my record has been clear on that. I organized groups of people who contacted their congress reps to oppose the bailout. I posted earlier tonight my complete opposition to the auto industry bailout.

I oppose socialism of any kind, related to support of industry.
It isn't capitalism that has failed, it is the interference of the government that has disrupted the natural cycle of business failures. It was the interference by People like Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and other liberals, in FORCING Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae to grant sub-prime loans to people that really couldn't afford to hold those mortgages, and the government edicts that forced many underwriters to default on bad paper.

your statement about the Fed "weeding out corruption" is really FUNNY! The Fed is CORRUPT. Alan Greenspan had a great deal to do with the housing collapse, and Bernanke is just following the crowd. Paulson, of course, is about as corrupt as anyone can be, and as ex-CEO of Goldman Sachs, he is hardly an unbiased party in this entire mess. Instead of weeding out corruption, the bailout bill has legalized it, as there is NO accountability as to where the $700 billion is going, and the extra $150 billion in pork, is corruption personified.

Your entire post is a non sequitur.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


tell that to the car companys , lmfao the problem is the Goverment even i seen this comming from a mile away. Look if the Goverment is handing out billions of dollars of bail out money there is a good chance that it will snow ball & everyone standing there holding out their hands going wheres my money. LMFAO
See ehat a bad idea socialist ideas cause, guess what it was our tax money they spend handing it to the companys & now we might get taxes raised to cover our tax dollars spent. So tell me does socialist ideas sound good now.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by lucidclouds

 

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." -- John F. Kennedy

I hope for the former. Either way, progress is progressive

Yeah, when a goverment doesn't want the change the people have no choise.

But to be honest, I couldn't hurt a fly.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by lucidclouds

 

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." -- John F. Kennedy

I hope for the former. Either way, progress is progressive

Yeah, when a goverment doesn't want the change the people have no choise.

But to be honest, I couldn't hurt a fly.

reply to post by switching yard

A recent survey found that the highest average quality of life and not surprisingly the happiest people on the planet are in Norway, which is a pretty socialist system.

Seriously. And a lot of conservatives make Norway out to be such a bad, bad liberal country. I wonder why?

As for socialism, can you imagine how people might hold their government accountable for the things it does wrong if they weren’t so busy going bankrupt from medical bills and trying to give their children decent educations? My God, let us not ask anything of those who want to hold on to money and power, throw a bit of it around and they stop looking untouchable to the rest of us. They just couldn’t have that.

Originally posted by jam321
Socialism isn't a bad thing. It just isn't something I want or want to see. I believe it makes people less productive in life. Why work hard if you are still going to get an equal share? Why study?

and...

Originally posted by Swatman
socialism is BS. I do not think equality should be for everyone because people that work harder than others will get the same treatment as people who are lazy in life.

These are typical stereotypes, just like the stereotype that all people in communist nations get paid the same and don't even have to work because they still get paid etc.

The reality is that socialism is about giving the less fortunate *equal opportunity*, not *equal pay for not working*. Gentlemen, there's a difference.

Originally posted by Nola213
I'd bet the rich folk work alot less hard, and sit on their butt for more hours a day than the middle class.

And you would be right. Most rich people in the US are rich because they inherited their fortune and invested it, not because they worked hard.

www.americanprogress.org...

Hey maybe we'll see when the War of the classes break out. How well the rich do in a fight with thier manicured hands, that have been counting daddy's money,against guys who have caliced hands from swinging sledgehammers,and picks, and digging trenches for a living.

When that day comes, the heads of the rich will come flying off, and the joke will be that they could have easily avoided it, by simply sharing a little bit of their wealth, but instead they chose to sell the rope that they were about to be hanged with.

Ah I can't wait till the day comes I can say Yes, as the Rich get poorer, the poor get richer, and man/woman/ black/white/yellow/purple becomes equal.

The socialdemocratix economic system seems to be the only system where wealth is generally not just trickling up.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by aaa2500]

United States is in recesion, people hold 3 jobs to be able to earn a living, in this conditions people that are in trouble(most of people) do need alot of social servicing like public healthcare, the competition is just for some, others can't compete especialy in a recesion.So it would only be fair to have social services for people who want it, the rest should be able to do what ever they want and taxing should only be for people who want social service.

Among the people that can't compete are characters who did not come from a welthy family(the majority) especialy young people.

To make something out of your life and to start from zero you would only make it after you 40 years of age.Until then...hard work.

...Social services are just social services and can coexist with capitalism, what is everyone so afraid of?



[edit on 20-11-2008 by pepsi78]