Just wondering, why do so many of you seem to hate Jesus?, page 5

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reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 06:21 PM by angel of lightangelo

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by HugmyRek

It is clear that you have not studied up on the 'guy'. As I have told others I will tell you. Jesus believes in you even if you do not believe in him, but at some point you will see him face to face and I hope you will KNOW him much sooner than that day.

Grandma

I really do not want to insult your faith. I do respect people that just want to spread a message of love and all that good stuff they are supposed to be about. I have an issue with this statement. "but he believes in you." I hear that often and it sounds nice and all but does it really mean anything? Can I not say the same about Santa Claus? Does it not present the exact same logic and argument of fact? This is not to knock you, but you reminded me of that sentence and it has bothered me for some time.

Imagine if your doctor diagnosed you with a fatal illness and then told you that the cure was stabbing yourself repeatedly in the eye with a pin. And then said, "You may not believe in the cure, but the cure believes in you." Guess what, if it aint really a cure, belief is gonna mean jack all.

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 06:25 PM by mullet35

reply to post by dominicus

I don't question whether or not Jesus existed but question his conection to a so called God.

As far as to say the real words of God their is no genuine version of the Bible left all the religions have just taken the little bits that reflect the religion that they want to practice from the Bilble and gone with that so which religion is right yours if so why.

How is that the only people that seen Jesus after his death where is most loyal followers was this nothing more than a way to say to the Romans you did not win if he did infact come back to life would you not think he would let everyone see him so there would be no doubt at all.

The Bible was the first and greatest story book ever written and the story of Jesus is the greatest version of how to make someone a marter

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 06:34 PM by Grandma

reply to post by mullet35

Mullet35:

There were over 500 people that saw Jesus after he was resurrected along with his disciples. If it was all a lie, how has a lie kept living on for over 2,000. And all of the disciples save for John ALL died terrible deaths while still going to their death proclaiming the truth of Christ and God. Not one of them said "Hey, wait a minute here, I never really believed in that guy Jesus and all that stuff he was teaching." Not one of them!

Something to think about!

Peace in Christ the Lord,
Grandma

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 06:45 PM by angel of lightangelo

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by mullet35

Mullet35:

There were over 500 people that saw Jesus after he was resurrected along with his disciples. If it was all a lie, how has a lie kept living on for over 2,000. And all of the disciples save for John ALL died terrible deaths while still going to their death proclaiming the truth of Christ and God. Not one of them said "Hey, wait a minute here, I never really believed in that guy Jesus and all that stuff he was teaching." Not one of them!

Something to think about!

Peace in Christ the Lord,
Grandma

Show me the forensic evidence. The bodies. How about footage? No? Maybe it is just a story too. It is kind of hard to say that the bible is true because other parts of the bible back it up.

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 06:46 PM by mullet35

I just find it hard to beleive that so many intelligent people can get caught up in this and where does the 500 people thing come from I was under the understanding that jesus appeared in from of his disciples in a room stating whatever he dribled and if there was 500 people is there a record of there indiviual statements in regards to this matter or again is that just something pulled out the air to try and keep this pathetic lie going for another 2000 years

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 06:52 PM by angel of lightangelo

Originally posted by mullet35
I just find it hard to beleive that so many intelligent people can get caught up in this and where does the 500 people thing come from I was under the understanding that jesus appeared in from of his disciples in a room stating whatever he dribled and if there was 500 people is there a record of there indiviual statements in regards to this matter or again is that just something pulled out the air to try and keep this pathetic lie going for another 2000 years

Actually ,in my bible it says he appeared to one person first, then the rest of the disciples and none recognized him. He had to prove he was Jesus because it did not look like Jesus.

So if some guy that looks nothing like my dead uncle shows up and says he is him, I am writing one hell of a book!

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 06:53 PM by The time lord

People are not expressing Jesus in the right way, his teachings are not of the flesh, its for the afterlife but we can improve our selves along the way before when we die. If God is Judge, Jesus is your lawyer then that is his job, the difference is that Jesus can step in and be your lawyer. But the truth is that the believers get 1000 years longer in life, the non believers wake up after the 1000years and face a persecuting judgement from God whilst the believers get judged on the good things they did in life.

Although that is still something you probably do't care about the fact is this thread is about why people hate Jesus. Do people really hate Jesus or do they hate Christians? The effect seems to be on the believers and not so much on Christ. Can anyone find a wrong word that Christ said in the Bible? That was also the challenge to the Romans, gentiles and Jewish rabbis alike. They all failed to find what he said was wrong apart from him declaring him self God which is blasphamy to the Jewish religious system.
Again many people reject he was God in the Flesh or the Son of God and that is the main issue here till this day.

Like the Jews of the time and the Romans, find something that the Bible says in what Jesus had said and use it against him, can you find a way to persecute him if the story was true in your eyes or the story was just a good fictional character in your opinion? Use his words agaist him in a fictional way I bet he answers most of them. The only rejection Jesus had then and now after 2008 years is the fact, was he the son of God? The same argument that the Bible tells of his persecution because of that very argument. The new argument was, did he come back alive? Again that is down to faith and again its down to faith if you believe in his return now.

But if you look at peoples attitudes today in how they percieve Jesus its no different to what was written about him in his rejection, because that is human nature, they did not write the Bible saying to all the people of that day, we were conspiring to create the Bible for the better of mankind, they documented the events and while people believed and we equally persecuted for it in the same attitude. It does warn you of your own persecutions and rejections that will come. The same path of rejection from society if you chose to believe this faith has as history shows many Christians killed because of their faith. Belief has its rocky path its not always easy and sometimes people have to live in societies where they don't admit what they believe because another social system or other religion might persecute and kill them.

I agree that many self righteous Christians go about calling every non-believer a sinner, Jesus never spoke like that in tone only when challenged for his defence and sometimes preachers go on the offence tactic which does not work. I don't see why they should be on the offence either and they should constrain that attitude and follow on how Jesus was tollerant rather than showing off their righteous rule as they see it. Jesus warned of this like when the prostitute was being stoned and he wrote their sins on the ground.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by The time lord]

[edit on 19-11-2008 by The time lord]

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 07:05 PM by The time lord

reply to post by angel of lightangelo

Well actually 500 people saw Jesus after his ressurection in my book.

www.apologeticspress.org...

Second, the reason the two disciples who were traveling on the road to Emmaus failed to recognize Jesus initially was not because Jesus had a different body, but because God had miraculously prevented them from recognizing Him. Luke 24:16 indicates that at the beginning of their conversation with Jesus “their eyes were restrained,” but then just before Jesus vanished from their sight, “their eyes were opened and they knew Him” (24:31). Thus, the disciples’ recognition ability failed, not because Jesus possessed a different body, but because their eyes were miraculously restrained.

Text

It's spiritual, sometimes like this event the Bible if not read properly will be like a restrained knowledge leading to your own conclusions.

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 07:20 PM by invisiblewoman

I don't hate Jesus ,Jesus is a fiction ,I also don't hate the Easter Bunny ,Santa Claus,Satan , Zeus ,Marduke or Buzz Lightyear

I hate that some people can't tell fairytales from reality
or get psuedo science confused with the real thing
or just trash science altogether

or think that fairytales from the Middle East are true historical documents

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 07:24 PM by Grandma

reply to post by angel of lightangelo

The disciples were hiding out together in a small room when Jesus appeared to them. They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. Jesus then said to them,'Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and look at my feet. It is I myself!! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement he asked them, '"Do you have anything to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence. He said to them."This is what I told you while I was still with you; Everything must sbe fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning with Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with the power from on high." When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifed up his hand and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with GREAT JOY. And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.

Now, does that sound like they did not know who he was and what they were meant to do by following Him? Just to think they actually got to SEE Jesus and BE with him. How lucky they were.

Peace,
Grandma

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 07:29 PM by Good Wolf

reply to post by Grandma

If only they had written some first hand accounts of what happened. That would be handy.

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 07:33 PM by The time lord

The difference between a fairy tale and Jesus and the rest of the Bible is that they have written hundreds of other books that prove the locations and way of life as archeolocal facts and with real discoveries. Let alone enough evidence from oposing cultures like the Romans and Greeks and non-Believing Jews where there is enough sources outside the Bible manuscrips to piece togther enough information to rewrite the 4 Gospels and only missing a few words. Bible evidence outside of the Bible exists and many new discoveries where its too taboo for the national news to admit.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by The time lord]

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 07:36 PM by toasted

" Just wondering, why do so many of you seem to hate Jesus? "

I think they just hate that, which they don't understand. I think they can see through some of the preachers who are part of the apostacy and then assume they're all like that. I'll bet not one of them ever got a really good Bible teaching, that taught chapter by chapter and verse by verse using a concordance for a true understanding.

On top of that, they see peers who feel the same way as they do, so after getting enough confirmations by similarly misguided and ignorant peers to validate them, they stop questioning things and just attack that which they still do not understand, but really having no clue what they are doing, or what they are part of but feeling right about it just the same!...

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 07:40 PM by stonespiral

whoa whoa whoa, people hate Jesus? That seems kind of silly.

Now, religion, that's one thing I'm not so fond of. But Jesus, even if he didn't actually exist, as symbol is something to love and many of his ideas should be practiced more often through society.

Hate? that just seems illogical.

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 07:47 PM by rapinbatsisaltherage

How do you hate something that doesn’t exist?

I don’t hate Jesus, he is easily one of the most interesting characters from the bible and I think if more Christians were like him we’d all get along just fine.

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 07:52 PM by Grandma

reply to post by Good Wolf

Good Wolf:

Luke who was a physician, we know that because he wrote in Greek and Hebrew and used words that only a doctor would have used. Now, that being said he was a close friend a traveling companion of Paul's as is shown in his personal allusions while recording the journeys of the apostle. Luke also wrote the Book of Acts.

Now, it only makes sense would it not if Luke knew Paul and Paul knew Peter and Peter knew John and John knew James and so forth. Luke would have heard first accounts of what had happened to each of them and they most likely spilled their guts telling him everything.

Now, you have all the letters of Paul there is not much room for doubt that Paul transcribed these letters himself. Most likely it was Luke who actually wrote them as Paul was telling him what to write. But there is also in parts of the letters where ii is clear Paul wrote it himself. And yes, Paul was a true apostle just like the others. Jesus did call Paul into the ministry with the others.

Now also we have 1 Peter, 11 and 111 Peter, as well as John. There is no reason to doubt that they did not write these accounts.

If Jesus wasn't real to them would them have spent their whole lives preaching to everyone they could find and travel great distances in hardships to serve someone who was not real and did what they say he did?

Plus, they all died terrible deaths still proclaiming their faith and belief in Christ as the risen Lord. None on them, not one of them, ever said otherwise and that is proven in the Roman archives as well as with the Hebrews. No, for me anyway, there is just too much proof plus what I know in my heart and how my spirit loves His spirit and their is no greater love then the love of Christ. It is the beautiful feeling in the world. What grace we have had bestowed upon us. Amazing that he should love the likes of us to die a tragic death and suffer so. I feel his pain and suffering and I feel his forgiveness and love. There is no greater story on the face of this earth to be told and no greater love could someone give.

Peace to you,
Grandma

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 08:00 PM by chapter29

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by mullet35

Mullet35:

There were over 500 people that saw Jesus after he was resurrected along with his disciples. If it was all a lie, how has a lie kept living on for over 2,000.

Something to think about!

Peace in Christ the Lord,
Grandma

Do you have any videos or photos to back this claim up?

And btw - lies stand the test of time as well as any truth...

Peace Out...!

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 08:03 PM by Good Wolf

reply to post by Grandma

Well that's all well and good, but we don't actually know who wrote those books. The all seem to be written long after the events and lifetimes of the people said to have written the books.

Gospels/Acts

According to tradition the Gospels were written by the four named authors and in the order in which they appear in the New Testament - Matthew by the Apostle Matthew, Mark by a disciple of the Apostle Peter in Rome, Luke by Luke the companion of Paul, and John by John the Evangelist, traditionally identified with the Apostle John. Luke is also identified by tradition as the author of the Acts, as a continuation of the Gospel of Luke.

Scholarly opinion is evenly divided between those who accept and those who reject the traditional authorship of Luke/Acts. For Mark, Matthew and John there is far greater agreement that the traditional ascriptions are incorrect, and that the authors of these works are in fact unknown. Scholars are in broad agreement that Mark is the earliest gospel, and that Matthew and Luke rely on it for their narrative. All four Gospels are usually dated to a period after 70 AD, although a minority of conservative scholars continue to argue for earlier dates.

en.wikipedia.org...

...So, as I said it would be nice if the deciples had made some eyewitness accounts for us to use.

[edit on 19/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 08:26 PM by Grandma

reply to post by chapter29

People would not keep believing in a lie if they knew they were going to lose family members and be persecuted for their faith. It would be much more simple to live your life without your belief. Would you not? The fact that so many people for over 2,000 years have stayed and remain Christians can't be brushed aside as some cult. Something is real somewhere.

The fact that the disciples traveled great distances and suffered great hardships while telling everyone about this wonderful Christ and what he meant to our lives. It was their influence that spread Christianity throughout the world as they knew it to be.

Now you also have Roman historians at that time who kept records of what was happening at that time. They kept careful records of the Christians and what they were up to. And yes, Jesus is mentioned by Eusebius and Josephus.

Also, in these records are the deaths of the Apostles. All but John were killed because of professing their belief in the risen Lord. All the proof I need, but I have more much more. I have a wonderful loving relationship with my Lord and savior. To know such love and grace is so undeserving but I am so glad that He loves a sinner such as I.

Peace to you,
Grandma

reply posted on 19-11-2008 @ 08:32 PM by Good Wolf

reply to post by Grandma

When Chapter said lie he didn't mean that the apostles were telling lies about Jesus but that the apostles themselves are the lie. Occam's razor plays a part here in one's skeptism.