"10 Cars That Sank Detroit", page 1

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Topic started on 17-11-2008 @ 03:36 PM by jibeho

I read the following article the other day and I couldn't hold back the laughter and the tears.

biz.yahoo.com...

This article also brought back fond memories of the the Gremlin, Pacer, Omni/Horizon, Chevette/t1000, K-cars, Stratus, Tempo/Topaz, Fairmonts and Granadas. I could go on forever.

It also dredged up the memory of the era of the Big 3 buying up foreign auto makers. Jaguar, Volvo, Mazda, Land Rover, Saab to name a few. At the time the big three went on a buying spree they should have focused on their own inadequate products. Ford simply killed Jaguar and Land Rover.

They got greedy and arrogant. They couldn't run themselves but thought they could run the competition. Do they really need a bailout?

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 03:40 PM by asmeone2

Hmm, while I am no expert at cars I really think the Japanese sedans easily outpace American cars.

I have driven the same 99 Mazda for almost 4 years now, and it has only broken down once druing that time.

Most of those I know who drive american cars have to take them to the shop often.

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 03:57 PM by jibeho

reply to post by asmeone2

I drive an 02 Mazda and love it. Fortunately, Ford only owns 1/3 of Mazda. The big 3 should have been focusing on quality rather than acquisitions.

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:09 PM by RRconservative

10 Cars and 1 Union that sank Detroit..........

The Auto Workers Union

Do Not Bailout the Auto Industry.

Contact your Reps!

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 08:38 PM by GamerGal

reply to post by RRconservative

And how did the UAW kill the auto companies? I'm pretty sure it was the 4-6 dollar gas. Or will you use the usual "Unions make it so the companies can't use slave labor!" BS? It was the gas crunch. Before people could afford a truck and fill up the thirty gallon tank. Not at 5 dollars a gallon though. And who offered gas sippers? Japan and Korea. My KIA is Korean and I've gotten over 40mpg!

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 08:47 PM by RRconservative

Originally posted by GamerGal
reply to post by RRconservative

And how did the UAW kill the auto companies? I'm pretty sure it was the 4-6 dollar gas. Or will you use the usual "Unions make it so the companies can't use slave labor!" BS? It was the gas crunch. Before people could afford a truck and fill up the thirty gallon tank. Not at 5 dollars a gallon though. And who offered gas sippers? Japan and Korea. My KIA is Korean and I've gotten over 40mpg!

Looks like Japanese and Korean automakers made it through the "gas crunch" just fine. I wonder how they did it? Could it be because Japanese and Korean automakers don't have UNIONS? They also have plants right here in the United States employing American workers.

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 08:57 PM by GamerGal

reply to post by RRconservative

No its because they sell gas sippers. American gas guzzlers were destroyed by the gas crunch. The Asian Gas Sippers grew in sales. Are you really so Anti American Worker as to believe that the Unions had no effect for over 50 years until right now? Check it out, did great until the gas crunch. You can see it. Gas prices go up, gas guzzlers stop selling and gas sippers rise. Who sells the gas guzzlers? America. Who sells gas sippers? Asia. Stop hating the American Work Force so much and realize it was the gas crunch.

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 09:00 PM by vox2442

Originally posted by jibeho
Omni/Horizon, Chevette/t1000, ... Tempo/Topaz,

I have owned one of these (Chevette) and have a lot of experience with the other two. They were cheap to buy, cheap to drive, cheap to maintain, and could be a lot of fun if you avoided the automatic transmissions. They were a good second car for a family, a reliable winter beater, and for about 65% of the people my age in the late 80's, one of those cars was the first car they ever owned. The chev cav and ford escort would round that out to about 95%.

IMO getting rid of these models is where Detroit lost the plot. You need to have a cheap base model, without the bells and whistles, that anyone can drive away with -and own outright - regardless of their budget. Detroit got away from these models and got into the leasing scam, which wound up costing them huge in the long run.

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 10:29 PM by asmeone2

Jihebo:

Totally agree, I don't see the value at all in a fancier car if you have to replace it every 5 years or so.

I think mine'll keep going to 200, 000 miles with proper care--it's at about 120 000 now.

The only thing that has broken is the transmission linkage, and it was pretty funny, I "parked" outside my house but it was actually stuck in neutral, so I started rolling down the hill.

Plus I get 25MPG which I think is great, for the size of the car and a model that was made before the gas crisis.

My brother also has a 1994 B-Series Mazda that is going strong, and I know many, many people who are still driving Toyotas or Hondas from the late 90's and below.

I think I've also noticed that Japanese cars tend to be much more maneuverable than American cars, which I also like.

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 10:40 PM by Anonymous ATS

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 10:41 PM by jimmyx

Originally posted by RRconservative
10 Cars and 1 Union that sank Detroit..........

The Auto Workers Union

Do Not Bailout the Auto Industry.

Contact your Reps!

under the new contract all new workers are at 14 dollars an hour, as reported by the governor of michigan, today 11/17/08 on CNN. it would be nice to actually hear in some detail how much they actually make and what benefits they have...but all we here is managements side and CNBC business channels side.

reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 10:53 PM by uplander

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by jibeho
Omni/Horizon, Chevette/t1000, ... Tempo/Topaz,

I have owned one of these (Chevette) and have a lot of experience with the other two. They were cheap to buy, cheap to drive, cheap to maintain, and could be a lot of fun if you avoided the automatic transmissions. They were a good second car for a family, a reliable winter beater, and for about 65% of the people my age in the late 80's, one of those cars was the first car they ever owned. The chev cav and ford escort would round that out to about 95%.

IMO getting rid of these models is where Detroit lost the plot. You need to have a cheap base model, without the bells and whistles, that anyone can drive away with -and own outright - regardless of their budget. Detroit got away from these models and got into the leasing scam, which wound up costing them huge in the long run.

I wholeheartedly agree with you here! My very first car in 1989 was a 1979 Mercury Zephyr. LOL WOW What memories that brings me! I loved that little brown box, even with the crumpled up front quarter panel! It took me everywhere and ran like a horse.

Guess what was after that because I got in a wreck and totaled it? A Ford Fairmont! I loved that car just as much and drove the crapola out of it.

The best part was that at 17 I had saved up my money from my job and bought it out right cash. Coooolllness right there. I had it made and didn't even know it.

My Grandfather firmly believed in the power of the Ford Escort. I thought it was ugly and regularly told him so. But he insisted that it was the best little car on the road at the time.

reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 06:00 AM by jibeho

reply to post by vox2442

Gotta love the "Vette". My brother's first car was a white four door vettte. It was definitely a cheap car to own except for the 3 heater cores that it needed. My first car was 78' Caprice Classic. That was a great car. Bench seats and one speaker radio but plenty of 305 cubic inch power. After that, was an 85' VW Golf. Cool car, great in the snow, fun to drive, but quirky maintenance issues. It eventually nickel and dimed me to death.

Chevy still makes a little car called the Aveo I believe. Not so sure about its price point.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by jibeho]

reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 06:07 AM by GoalPoster

reply to post by jibeho

Just a point of clarification . . . Ford did not 'kill' Jaguar and Land Rover . . .

The carmaker sold its Jaguar and Land Rover luxury units to India's Tata Motors Ltd. for about $2.4 billion in June

Link to source

reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 06:09 AM by NGC2736

I've owned several of those "cheapies", over the years. The worst of the bunch was a Pacer. I loved all the glass; you could always see the ditch coming at you. That damned thing would hydroplane if a cow had taken a leak in the road.

reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 06:12 AM by jibeho

reply to post by GoalPoster

Agreed. Jaguar is still alive and has a sweet new model but, Ford did mame it. Ford also introduced the Land Rover Freelander. Not a great model for Land Rover lovers/diehards. It was a Land Rover in name only.

Jaguar X-Type. Ford bought the British luxury brand Jaguar in 1990, when all three Detroit automakers were seeking ways to expand their global reach. Eventually, Ford decided to build an entry-level Jaguar starting at around $30,000 for people looking to move up from, say, a Mercury Marquis. The down-market move "represented everything that Jaguar is not," says Libby of J.D. Power. The X-Type was built on an ordinary sedan platform from elsewhere in Ford's lineup, and the front-wheel-drive system underwhelmed enthusiasts used to rear-drive European makes. Jag purists were horrified, and aspiring luxury buyers shunned the X-Type in favor of BMWs, Lexuses, and Acuras. After fumbling the luxury brand for nearly two decades, Ford sold Jaguar to an Indian conglomerate in 2008.

reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 06:17 AM by conspiracy nut

reply to post by GamerGal

don't forget that american cars are notoriously unreliable!
why bailout a company that makes unreliable gas guzzlers?

they should have been focusing on reliable, hybrid type cars instead of
huge trucks, suv's and crappy cars that would do you no good unless you are a mechanic!

reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 06:21 AM by GoalPoster

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
reply to post by GamerGal

don't forget that american cars are notoriously unreliable!
why bailout a company that makes unreliable gas guzzlers?

they should have been focusing on reliable, hybrid type cars instead of
huge trucks, suv's and crappy cars that would do you no good unless you are a mechanic!

6 myths about the Detroit 3

The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by everyone from members of Congress to journalists. Here are six myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the reality in each case

Here's the Free Press list . . .

reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 06:30 AM by vox2442

Originally posted by uplander

I wholeheartedly agree with you here! My very first car in 1989 was a 1979 Mercury Zephyr. LOL WOW What memories that brings me! I loved that little brown box, even with the crumpled up front quarter panel! It took me everywhere and ran like a horse.

Zephyr! WOW, that takes me back. I bought one for $50 back around the same time. Summer of '89. I needed to get out to Vancouver (from Ottawa), so I bought it, got a travel sticker (good for a few days until you get your safety inspection and proper plates), travel insurance... and drove to Vancouver where I sold it for $50.