Real Contrail Science, why they persist and why they spread out and why they are not chemtrails

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
I hava a good question to all you "debunkers\meterologists"

if chemtrails DON"T exists then why WOULD they be mentioned by NAME in the initial draft of HR 2977??

Because a bunch of chemtrail believers talked a senator into including it in his bill, even though he did not know it was a conspiracy theory. The Senator took some heat over that as well.

Chemtrails are likely a result of the NATO Aerosolized Defense Grid That was implemented in the late 1990’s. It is for our own good and will serve us well in case of a nuclear exchange with a nuclear-armed nation which is not aligned with NATO.

Countries who have recently joined NATO are also being subjected to this grid and much of the citizenry are not happy about it; Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. As the others just before (Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic in 1999, East-Germany in 1990) are all obligated to follow certain policies and allowing the defense grid to be applied in their aerospace. The citizenry is not consulted and does not have a say in these type of operations, nor are the told of the negative health effects or environmental effects - such 'side-effects' being the end result of a classified operation...

When a country joins NATO - you will see that their citizenry quickly becomes aware of the chemtrail phenomenon and will begin to form groups to inform others and protest the spraying. These groups often lobby politicians aswell as create websites and leaflets to inform others.

It is likely that the planes spraying the chemicals that facilitate the operation of the NATO Aerosolized Defense Grid are from other NATO countries. The planes that create chemtrails are likely not piloted by members belonging to the military of the country over which they are applying the Grid. This ensures a certain level of detachment from the crime being committed.

The operations appear to be highly classified, and pilots told their actions are benevolent - it is likely they are told they are “Saving the environment” or something to that effect. I have no doubt they would face immediate court martial if they were to leak any data pertaining to this man-made phenomenon.

here are some interesting patents that will indicate some of the military uses for chemtrails.

www.freepatentsonline.com...

-This technology is used to amplify and increase the effectiveness of this technology:

www.patentstorm.us...

-this weapons system’s ability to detect and destroy an object is vastly increased with heavy metal particulate in the air.

The proof is there for all to see.

“Experts” are often conveniently on hand to help you deny the reality and to sideline and derail people who have pertinent and important information to release concerning the man-made, and dangerous chemtrail phenomenon. Everyone is an 'expert' on the internet

The reality is so frightening that having an ‘accredited’ expert on hand to create a meme of plausible deniability is actually an effective way of causing people to dismiss the chemtrail phenomenon. (You will likely notice their 'convenient' presence whenever the chemtrail phenomenon is being discussed, you will also notice how often they remind the members of their 'credentials' and 'expertise in the field' - some going so far as to register there names as "Meteorologist" and "NZWeatherman")

But then you take a look at the evidence, and the malevolent intent becomes self-evident. planes (either NATO or Private) are spraying something on the densely populated areas in the countries that are a part of NATO.

*Currently, there are NO LAWS against or even regarding weather modification in North America.

Originally posted by TruthTellist
I regard Morgellons as an actual disease.
I have encountered it only once (in practice) and it took several months for my patient to recover.

God...
In the last thread he was a pilot and meteorologist, now he is a doctor.
Anyway I can at least agree with some of what he is saying this time around, as the leading reseachers say its a fungus/plant disease.

Nice initial post. For the record, sublimation is a change from the solid phase to the vapor phase without passing through the liquid phase. This is how the ice crystals evaporate. Even ice has a vapor pressure and when the air is not saturated with water vapor, the ice will evaporate. The more the air is saturated with water, the longer the ice persists. By the way, if you consider that the exhaust from a jet engine is water saturated with CO2 and containing traces of other combustion products, soot, and unburned Jet-A, then indeed these condensation trails may be called chem trails. As for the idea that commercial aircraft are part of a conspiracy spraying unknown compounds with unknown effects that drift down on on general targets for no known reason...I don't buy it. What are the compounds, what are they supposed to do, who are they targeting, and why would anyone use such an unselective method as bombing from 30,000 feet when a silenced black NWO helo could fly in at night and do a much better job?

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by TruthTellist
I regard Morgellons as an actual disease.
I have encountered it only once (in practice) and it took several months for my patient to recover.

God...
In the last thread he was a pilot and meteorologist, now he is a doctor.

Anyway I can at least agree with some of what he is saying this time around, as the leading reseachers say its a fungus/plant disease.

Nematodes are not fungi or plants, they are animals. Also known as roundworms. In the case of Morgellons, a genetically engineered strain. Or so it is said.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


Ah...
Well I never claimed to be a biology expert...
Thanks for the info though.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
I hava a good question to all you "debunkers\meterologists"

if chemtrails DON"T exists then why WOULD they be mentioned by NAME in the initial draft of HR 2977??

Because a bunch of chemtrail believers talked a senator into including it in his bill, even though he did not know it was a conspiracy theory. The Senator took some heat over that as well.

It was an accident?

Imagine something like this happening in reverse, that explanation would get laughed at in support of a CT.

reply to post by TruthTellist


The patent that you linked to describes the use of TiO2 pigment so that drone aircraft are visible to the trainees that are shooting at them. The fake contrails are made of the titanium dioxide [white paint pigment] and a finely divided silica [quartz] plus something to keep them from clumping. This is to keep the optical density high enough as small particles will scatter more light than an equivalent amount of larger particles. These bogus contrails do not evaporate but eventually rain down with or without water on them. Note that there are not significant amounts of anything by weight. Any NATO protective grid wouldn't use any of this stuff because it is only pigment. If we could convince attacking aircraft to install these generators, our trainees would have a better look at their targets. Another use might be airshows or for visualizing airflow. Colors could easily be added, if desired.

reply to post by pteridine


You are lying. Your Strawman argument is far too obvious.

Quote the data you are referring to - then I will rebut, respectively, your statements and claims.


[edit on 18-11-2008 by TruthTellist]

Oz and Defcon,

Several threads have been posted on this and I have read or participated as a believer in the CONTRAIL version. No matter how much science you throw at the "chemtrail" believers, they won't listen because THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SEEING DANGIT!

I sometimes worry about you Defcon because of the sheer amount of energy that you waste trying to change the minds of some of these people.

reply to post by TruthTellist


Pigment is pigment. It doesn't do anything. Read the patent that you posted the link to. I provided a synopsis. You obviously don't understand what is written or you are denying the truth. Perhaps you should consider changing your name to some other kind of tellist.

Originally posted by SuperSecretSquirrel
I have read or participated as a believer in the CONTRAIL version.

So exactly how is a 'believer' in the Contrail version any different than a 'believer' in the Chemtrail version?



Silly Squirrel

So the elitists do everything else to exploit the masses and make them die quicker, except spray us with chemicals. Hmmmmm....

My point is, we can say that contrail advocates can be one of three things:

1. Correct about them being contrails.

2. Disinformation agents.

3. Incorrect about them being contrails.

So why do we believe that chemtrails exist? Well if there are only three possibilities, then we chemtrail advocates have a 66.67% chance of being correct. I like those odds, don't you?


Again, the elitists poison us through every means of conventional sustenance that is provided for the masses. Why not chemtrails then? Do they not own the airlines? Do they not save money by using there own airspace and airplanes? These are just some examples.

In regards to 2., there is incentive to have disinformation agents. Food, water, transportation, etc. we can all find alternatives. Our precious air though, is not a simple matter. The sheer audacity of any conspiracist exclaiming there are only contrails and not chemtrails, are in fact the conspirators. Why? Because the elitists' mantra is Minimize costs, Maximize profits. If you indeed deny the existence of chemtrails, then you are denying the fact that they go to every length to simultaneously minimize costs, while continuing to poison us.

My banker analogy again: If you had the ability to rob a bank and 100% get away with it, would you?



[edit on 18-11-2008 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

reply to post by TruthTellist


Being a Doc who has treated this disease, I am curious as to what caused the fibers to grow?

Is this just by-product of the Bug or it it the actual bug?

Also, being a Doc, I spose' you'd laugh at a tretment like ACV, Bu I tell yer it works... Dunno what it is bout that stuff, but I swear by it...

I am really amazed by people who blindly believe in everything their governments say
if they say 'it is not harmful' it means they THINK it is not harmful

and if these governments are capable to spray agent orange on people, who knows what else are they capable of

here is a nice RTL video about what military is doing in germany

Originally posted by defcon5
I currently work for a pulmonologist, and if someone came in an said they were sick from chemtrails they would get a script for a psych eval.

That's probably what the doctors told all the guys after being sprayed by agent orange....
... come to think of it - that's what they tell everyone - until the truth comes out.






[edit on 18-11-2008 by spinkyboo]

Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities
So the elitists do everything else to exploit the masses and make them die quicker, except spray us with chemicals. Hmmmmm....

My point is, we can say that contrail advocates can be one of three things:

1. Correct about them being contrails.

2. Disinformation agents.

3. Incorrect about them being contrails.

So why do we believe that chemtrails exist? Well if there are only three possibilities, then we chemtrail advocates have a 66.67% chance of being correct. I like those odds, don't you?

That's illogical reasoning on every level.

On the same basis, is you tell me that the old lady who lives 3 doors down from me is not the tooth fairy either

1. You are correct
2. You are a disinformation agent
3. You are incorrect

And on the basis of probability (per your calculation) she probably is the tooth fairy ....

But in any case, if you are a disinformation agent then you are still either right or wrong and thus it's 50/50 as to whether or not she really is the tooth fairy.

Back to chemtrails. There is thus a 50/50 chance that those who have extensively studied the phenomena referred to as chemtrails for many decades, continue to study it and in particular study it's effect on climate and ways to prevent it occurring are either right or wrong.

I think they are right. If you think they are wrong, please explain how and why they are wrong.

You might also like to try and answer the question no chemtrailer darers answer: why are chemtrails visible and why do they look and behave identical to contrails?

Yes, there is some rather circumstantial evidence pointing towards the possibility that chemicals of some sort may be sprayed for varies purposes into the atmosphere. But there is no evidence whatsoever that what people call chemtrails are chemtrails Not even Truthtellist can explain why his imaginary protective shield looks and acts like contrails and only appears when contrails are expected (by well known atmospheric processes) to appear. Nor does he explain why NATO are spraying their shield over Australia and the Far East. Or, indeed, why they started doing it in WWII.

As for anti radar chaff - there is an issue here: what happens to it after deployment? Is there an environmental or health issue? I don't know. It's unrelated to chemtrails. And at least - as the German video demonstrates - we know when such chaff is deployed to any great extent because, whilst it cannot be seen from the ground, it shows up on radar.

One of the problems with chemtrailers is that each and every one of them has a different idea of what they are, who deploys them, how and why. And no-one has ever explained why they are not only visible from the ground (which always seems highly improbable) but also behave exactly like normal contrails to the extent that they totally fool all the worlds leading experts studying the phenomena and, indeed, the military who are also studying the phenomena with a view of finding better ways to prevent it occurring. Of course, I know some of you will then turn around and claim that chemtrails are something which cannot be seen from the ground (like chaff or cloud seeding or spraying sulphur particles to prevent GW etc) .... but then, doesn't that rather mean that all this chemtrails that we say are contrails are contrails after all?


If you truly believe that extensive chemical spraying is occuring, ask yourself who has been misleading you into thinking contrails are evidence of it, and what they may have been getting up to whilst your attention has been diverted.

Someone's been fooled. And my money is that it's not the scientists studying the phenomena

reply to post by defcon5


One thing, I have never seen a wingtip vortex on anything but a fighter. The only trails I have observed here are on commercial airliners and come from directly behind the engines, clearly seen even at 30,000ft.

I just don't see what wingtip vortex has to do with this subject.

reply to post by NuclearPaul


All I can say to that is....
Edumakate yourself, deny ignorance, and stuff like that...
Aircraft Induced Condenstation