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Real Contrail Science, why they persist and why they spread out and why they are not chemtrails

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posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Again, its flying low level, and its not releasing a cloud that lingers in the air all day, so your comparing apples to oranges. I know your better then trying to throw out this kind of garbage, which is way off the topic of Chemtrails, so why even inject that into the mix here?

As to why they would wear gear while filling it, it all comes down to concentration levels (though I am sure that you are smart enough to figure that out yourself and your just playing devils advocate). When dispersed into the air it falls in such a thin film that it obviously does no harm unless you directly ate the stuff. To someone that is filling concentrated levels of it 8 hours a day, with direct exposure, it is most likely going to have long term effects.

In the Medical field we use a type of Glue called Kalodeon which we attach to patients to hold on electrodes. Kalodeon is known to cause brain tumors from extensive exposure, but the patients don't have to worry about it because they are never exposed to it long enough to do them harm. The Technicians on the other hand, who handle it every night, have to take precautions because of it.

Again though the Topic is Chemtrials, not Aerial insecticide spraying, cloud seeding, fire dumps, nor crop dusting; you basically posting off topic in this thread with that stuff.




posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:16 PM
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Hrmmm, I would sur elike to havea debate sometime about this. I wouldn't like to participate in the debate, but i would like the debate to talk about the CONTENT of the chem/contrails. What about the virus', statistics of death, nanofibres in the air containing biological material?

imageevent.com...







[edit on 17-11-2008 by DaRAGE]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5
Again though the Topic is Chemtrials,


Well actually the topic is Contrails... so I will talk about contrails


Like THESE Obvious Contrails








posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Now in THIS picture we see where the 'trails' are really coming from...


What atmospheric conditions account for BLUE CONTRAILS?


Both vortexes tests, and you know it.
What are you doing with this stuff other then trying to derail the thread?
The topic is Chemtrails, not how they test aircraft wing vortexes, nor bug spraying.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Oh and how come you pick and choose what to answer? You find something you can twist in your favor or "explain away", yet ignore my earlier question of >> what about governments or respected agents of governments who have admitted to the testing of poisons or the attempts to control the weather by spraying through the air??

I am sorry, I did not realize that you had asked that question of me.
I would have to know about the specific incident that you are referring to. The only thing I recall that went on like that ended up being Chaff used by a fighter plane over Germany, that the Chemtrailers tried to foist off on the rest of us as proof of spraying.

Ps... Please don't repost entire posts as it tends to bring the Mods in here all upset.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5
The topic is Chemtrails, not how they test aircraft wing vortexes, nor bug spraying.


CONTRAILS
OP says Contrails... you say chemtrails...

I say its not a far stretch from one type of chemical spraying to another

But I will leave you to your one sided thread...

TTFN



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


No the thread title is “Real Contrail Science, Why They Persist and Why they Spread out, and Why they are not CHEMTRAILS”...

Not why they are not wing vortex testing, or why they are not crop dusting, or why they are not cloud seeding, or why they are not chaff. If you want to debate this then fine, but don't throw out stuff that I know you know is not chemtrail related. No one disputes that these other things are real, what we dispute is Chemtrails.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by kaspermartyrphantom
 


I am extremely suspicious about the number of flags and stars this thread has received... I hope ats administrators can look into this.. I find it funny that a suppposed meteorologist knows the difference between a contrail and chemtrail... Didn't know part of your schooling involved aviation.. (that is if you even went to school for meterology to begin with)

[edit on 17-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by kaspermartyrphantom
 



Why are "meterorologist's" all of a sudden the self ordained experts in discerning the difference between contrails and chemtrails...??? And if you are going to claim to be a meteorologist I would recommend posting your credentials.. it would help bolster your argument.. off coarse you wont and you will continue "debunking" chem trails... the question is WHY? why does it matter to you? why do you care if a bunch of conspiracy theorist beleive the goverment is spraying them... there the tin foil hat crowd anyways.. who would beleive them anyways right..? You tend to spend allot of time debunking this ... and to be honest it gives more validity to the phenomemon by people like you turning a complete blind eye to the evidence . and ignoring what people all over the country are seeing... Trust me you'r little "false flag" thread isn't gonna help stop people from realising they are getting sick when these so called contrails start appearing..So what exactly is your propaganda laden thread trying to do...? Remember People are smarter then you think. Especially the kind of people that visits ATS.. This isn't youtube.. I suggest you go back to work on a more gullable audience...

[edit on 17-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]


[edit on 17-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]

[edit on 17-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5
All I can say is that I worked directly on these aircraft for about a decade, and I never got sick from anything that was being emitted from them. You would think that if they were spraying stuff that I would have had extensive contact with it, either dripping off the spray nozzles, or coming out of the engine exhaust. Heck, if there was truth to this stuff ramp personnel would be keeling over like flies or wearing full chemsuits all day.

Did I just read that right?
You worked on 'one of these planes' as in a 'chem plane'??


I wouldn't expect you to get sick even if you were on a chemplane and that the chemicals being sprayed were poison aimed at the general population. Lots of jobs involve working with very dangerous materials, it's certainly not impossible to keep the chemicals sectioned off from the people flying.

Everything would be completely sealed off and injected out of the airplane.. Which I would assume is air tight itself.

This is the inside the box thinking I keep seeing too much. Throwing out the whole theory just becasue little things that with a quick thought might seem a tricky task but it's not close to impossible.

.. I'll check out that PDF.


Originally posted by defcon5
Of course engine temperature makes a difference, a shut off engine is certainly not going to make a contrail...
An engine running at half throttle is not going to be running as hot as one running full thrust.

Thats a given I suppose. But no ice crystals would form if the engine is off. an engine running at half throttle would likely make a bigger contrail initially but I don't think that's really what makes the difference between a contrail persisting for 30 seconds and one for an hour.

Twice as persistent would be expected maybe but thats what makes me think persistent contrails are chemtrails, they never just stick around a few minutes once it gets above a minute it's pretty much there for good.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 11:09 PM
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I hava a good question to all you "debunkers\meterologists"
if chemtrails DON"T exists then why WOULD they be mentioned by NAME in the initial draft of HR 2977?? Here is a direct cut and paste from the initial draft(by the way in the final the chemtrail part was removed) look at section 7 (ii)... have congressman gone insane? are you in a better position to determine whether the goverment is capable and is spraying chemtrails then Congress?if so please let us know... and perhaps we will then see who is really the dilusional ones here..CHEMTRAILS do exist lawmakers have named it.. so please stop this instanity already.

SEC. 5. REPORT.

The President shall submit to Congress not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and every 90 days thereafter, a report on--

(1) the implementation of the permanent ban on space-based weapons required by section 3; and

(2) progress toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing the agreement described in section 4.

SEC. 6. NON SPACE-BASED WEAPONS ACTIVITIES.

Nothing in this Act may be construed as prohibiting the use of funds for--

(1) space exploration;

(2) space research and development;

(3) testing, manufacturing, or production that is not related to space-based weapons or systems; or

(4) civil, commercial, or defense activities (including communications, navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote sensing) that are not related to space-based weapons or systems.

SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.

(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:

(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--

(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;

(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;

(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or
extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or

(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.

(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--

(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);

(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or

(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.


[edit on 17-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]

[edit on 17-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by zorgon
 


No the thread title is “Real Contrail Science, Why They Persist and Why they Spread out, and Why they are not CHEMTRAILS”...

Not why they are not wing vortex testing, or why they are not crop dusting, or why they are not cloud seeding, or why they are not chaff. If you want to debate this then fine, but don't throw out stuff that I know you know is not chemtrail related. No one disputes that these other things are real, what we dispute is Chemtrails.


So you are saying lawmakers are wrong\crazy and Chemtrails don't exist? if they don't exist then why would they be called out by the name in the initial HR-2977 bill? Or is the word simply misspelled and was supposed to be contrail? ahhhh thats its!


[edit on 17-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by thefreepatriot
 


Are you saying lawmakers are to always be trusted? That they are not manipulated? That they do not introduce legislation for political purposes?


[edit on 17-11-2008 by Phage]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by thefreepatriot
I am extremely suspicious about the number of flags and stars this thread has received... I hope ats administrators can look into this..

You mean the way that every Chemtrail supporter tonight just automatically gets three stars regardless of how short, incoherent, or how little work they put into their post?
Yeah why don't you do that...



Originally posted by thefreepatriot
I find it funny that a suppposed meteorologist knows the difference between a contrail and chemtrail...

They are currius clouds after all, why shouldn't he?
After all people in aviation owe a lot of their knowledge to Meteorologists, which is why anyone who learns to fly has to go through several chapters of meteorology. Its in the basic VFR pilots handbook.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by DaRAGE
 


Just on a side note.

Those little Nano Thingies.

Wanna Kill em dead.. use Apple Cyder Vinegar.

Raw on the skin & for the peeps with breathing problems, a few tablespoons in some water in a Vaporizer overnight.

There's nothing the Govt can't make that we cant kill...lol

Morgellons can be cured by using ACV quite quickly.

Population control huh..lol

GWB can Kiss my Arse!!



[edit on 11/17/2008 by Ironclad]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by thefreepatriot
 


BTW...
OZ has posted his credentials on ATS before, as well as his work contact information.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 11:45 PM
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I regard Morgellons as an actual disease.

I have encountered it only once (in practice) and it took several months for my patient to recover.

It appears to be a variation of the creeping nematodes found in southeast Asia. The Americans also modified a strain of nematode and sprayed them onto urban and military areas during the Vietnam war. These nematodes were engineered to eat concrete and erode infrastructure - an excellent force multiplier.

Fortunately, I was able to find a treatment for the variation I was witnessing. Unfortunately the treatment involved ingesting high levels of toxins commonly found in pesticides and herbicides. The side-effects resemble those of many chemotherapy regimes and are completely and totally debilitating - even more so than the disease depending on the severity of the infestation and the treatment used.

One psychological benefit to these extreme treatments is that patient begins to feel immediate relief both psychologically and psychically - I do not attribute this to the placebo effect. I attribute it to Hope being rediscovered by someone who was once not only hopeless but utterly helpless. Such positive emotions have documented healing properties, the state of mind is most important. The chemicals also have an immediate effect in the infestation.

Morgellons is a menace - but it is not yet so prevalent that it is fully recognized by the Medical or Scientific Community. I have no doubts that their ignorance will only worsen matters - especially as it has been identified in several cases to be a variation of creeping nematode - albeit genetically modified. I have no doubt the infestation that I treated was composed of organisms not indigenous to North or South America - I believe it was a variant of what was used during the Vietnam War, or related to it.

Morgellons is an enigma. I hope the US Gov responds to our Freedom of information Act requests on the subject. It is with them that the weaponized strain was created. As of 2000, It is primarily this weaponized strain that is discovered. We know this because it is FAR more resilient than the natural strain and contains more viral DNA and has bacterial colonies living within it. It is believe the bacteria produce the fibres which often protrude through the dermal layers.

High Strangeness.

Tropical Parasitic Organisms


Walter Reed - Dermatology Section


"btw why do people think morgellons is connected with contrails several miles above their heads?"

Maybe it is because of the means in which the US deployed it's modified creeping nematodes.

The Americans modified a strain of nematode and sprayed them onto urban and military areas during the Vietnam war. These nematodes were engineered to eat concrete and erode infrastructure - an excellent force multiplier.

The nematodes were mixed in with Flax Seed Oil as a storage medium and food source before being sprayed onto target zones.

The altitude could be changed depending on the medium in which the nematodes were contained. This would allow them to survive prolonged exposure to UV radiation and reduce freezing of the organisms. Creeping nematodes CAN be frozen and thawed out alive.

Just imagine what sort of dangers are presenting three to five generations of development later. Look how far we've come with nerve agents.

There; Now you can say that you talked to a doctor who has treated Morgellons.... correctly.

SSRIs and anti-psychotic medications have never been proven to help rid the body of any sort of parasite.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by Bumr055
Did I just read that right?
You worked on 'one of these planes' as in a 'chem plane'??

No as in a commercial airline, the same thing that you guys like to show pictures of leaving huge contrail clouds behind them.


Originally posted by Bumr055
Lots of jobs involve working with very dangerous materials, it's certainly not impossible to keep the chemicals sectioned off from the people flying.

I was a ramp supervisor, I took oversaw of loading everything on the aircraft and all ground servicing. That includes all fluids, and the fuel.


Originally posted by Bumr055
Everything would be completely sealed off and injected out of the airplane.. Which I would assume is air tight itself.

Not when its being pumped on the plane. Planes leak, they leak oil, hydrolic fluid, water, all kinds of crap. Just look at the black streak on the ramp that is under the airplane the next time you fly.


Originally posted by Bumr055
Thats a given I suppose. But no ice crystals would form if the engine is off. an engine running at half throttle would likely make a bigger contrail initially but I don't think that's really what makes the difference between a contrail persisting for 30 seconds and one for an hour.

Actually according to that document, cooler engines make bigger persistent contrails, so its inverse.


Originally posted by Bumr055
Thats Twice as persistent would be expected maybe but thats what makes me think persistent contrails are chemtrails, they never just stick around a few minutes once it gets above a minute it's pretty much there for good.

Check out that document, all the math is in it as to how they work. Again though I said that my first choice was Wingtip Vortex, I just threw the other thing in there as a possibility.





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