Real Contrail Science, why they persist and why they spread out and why they are not chemtrails

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posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Now why am I not surprised that YOU would send a sick person to see a shrink?

No they would treat what is wrong with them, but they would get a psyc script too.

So far no one has EVER shown up claiming this anyway, it seems that 99% of the population realize that airplanes do not cause their respiratory problems.


Originally posted by zorgon
Not to many months ago people were sayng exactly the SAME THING about those who suffered from Morgellons Disease... now you are saying there is real science behind it...

Most cases are still classified as delusional parasitosis, formication, and Munchausen's.




posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by LAUGHING-CAT
I will say that I have personally been under one of these planes at the wrong time when they were spraying malathion.

That is different then what others claim to be “Chemtrails” though, no one is denying that there is aerial application spraying that goes on especially here in Florida. Mostly its done for bugs, and I am sure that you have seen the white pickup trucks driving around here with the foggers running. All this stuff is done at low altitude so it is close to the target, not at 30K feet in the sky where it blows out to sea.


Originally posted by LAUGHING-CAT
I was sick for a week and the "media" said we have nothing to worry about.

No, if you got some insecticide straight in your face, you certainly can get sick from that.


Originally posted by LAUGHING-CAT
just Gov't planes spraying a chemical over Tampa.

Your right in my area, and I can tell you that yes there is low level aerial spraying that goes on for crops and such, but there are no “chemtrials”. As a matter of fact you will only see persistent contrails when it gets colder out down here.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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Y'know what? I have to admit I might have been wrong. And I'm okay with that. Now give me stars for having some guts.


[edit on 17-11-2008 by TylerKing]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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Very good post. Unfortunatley, you won't change any minds, the crazies are already writing you off as a propagandist. Still, its nice to have a coherent response in case a friend starts to go down this path but isn't too far gone to bring back with reason.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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Where in the world are you guys digging up all these old screen names with years of registration yet only a handful of posts?

Retired fellows? LOL!

Just kidding!



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
Didn't know people get sick from contrails ... must be somthing new

Even if planes were spraying anything, at their altitude it would land so far away it would not make anyone sick anyway.

Well I guess that makes it alright then... wait what? No that doesn't mean people wont get sick.. maybe not the people directly under it and definetally not instantly(you might need to hire a meteorologist to hit your target, assume your target isn't the weather but a city.)



Originally posted by OzWeatherman
In conclusion, its far more reliable to poison the population by spiking the drinking water supply rather than this way


....

Originally posted by defcon5They have traced this back to contaminated water so far, and also it seems to effect those who work in the dirt a lot. The reason why it “replicates” is because it is a fungus which grows.

... Not to mention fluoride water.. I think the 'spiked' drinking water is the one aimed at us.. and the chemtrails more a weather thing.


About the wing tip vortex.. I'm surprised one can form that low and your right it wasn't doing anything to fancy but that didn't really look like what I saw. they only lasted like 1 second, the ones I saw lasted from anywhere to 20seconds to a minute.

The second engine thing doesn't really make too much sense to me either.. As long as the ice crystals form if what meteorologists on this forum say is true then the conditions of the sky should keep them frozen and visible regardless of the original temperature.

[edit on 11/17/2008 by Bumr055]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Oh come on. Again, I'm able to see planes so close together that they you could take a pic from a regular digital camera and see both in the pic. There are a dozen or more all flying by in this type of close proximity in a very short period of time such as measured in minutes not hours. I live on the coast and they are flying from inland towards the ocean. Where are they all headed within a half hour of each other? Why are they so close? Why are they at such a lower altitude if they are truly on a journey across the ocean? Why do they all seem to follow this exact formation whenever I'm observing and always have the trails behind them?? You can dissect any individual statement you want, but together it is too much to dispute.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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let us not forget the evidence

now my friends no one is daring to say that all expanded contrails are chemically altered? if they are they are foolish to say the very least.

however, let us move the universal mind to the evidence that supports, hang on, the proof, that supports the deliberate alteration of our atmosphere by external influence.

OK. firstly, the UK government ADMITS SPRAYING viruses and the like on its very own population to determine the effect of bio weapons, not phrased in this way, but still the admission to spraying general said public for data persists as factual.

Second, the particles collected in parts of the world that have been measured by independant laboratories and have been found to be excessively inclusive of barium and radioactive compounds

So sure. not all elongated expansive vapour trail is chemically contaminated. But sure as [-SNIP-], our atmosphere is being altered by airborne emissions. Anyone who dares to disagree, has not done their research.

You have proved that big clouds from planes dont mean that there are chemicals in them. But to say that we do not have unnatural elemental particalisation contamination by a self referentially malignant 3rd party, would be a lie.

Big clouds mean nothing. Co- alignment of particulate spraying over a distinguished area which causes ailments, is means of an investigative approach. If this approach reveals unusually high unnatural relative exposure to toxic elements, which is correspondent to the supposed observed airborne ocurrance, then, well, its just a big cloud init?



Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 11/17/2008 by Gools]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 09:11 PM
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Millions were in germ war tests
Much of Britain was exposed to bacteria sprayed in secret trials

Antony Barnett, public affairs editor
Observer

Sunday April 21, 2002


The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told

www.guardian.co.uk...



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Bumr055
Well I guess that makes it alright then... wait what? No that doesn't mean people wont get sick.. maybe not the people directly under it and definetally not instantly(you might need to hire a meteorologist to hit your target, assume your target isn't the weather but a city.)

All I can say is that I worked directly on these aircraft for about a decade, and I never got sick from anything that was being emitted from them. You would think that if they were spraying stuff that I would have had extensive contact with it, either dripping off the spray nozzles, or coming out of the engine exhaust. Heck, if there was truth to this stuff ramp personnel would be keeling over like flies or wearing full chemsuits all day.


Originally posted by Bumr055
Not to mention fluoride water..

I cannot say that I know much about Fluoride, other then I have been drinking it most of my life and I am still kicking. I think that they add it as a type of bleach to kill off fungus such as that supposedly causing Morgellons, but I could be wrong.


Originally posted by Bumr055
I'm surprised one can form that low and your right it wasn't doing anything to fancy but that didn't really look like what I saw. they only lasted like 1 second, the ones I saw lasted from anywhere to 20seconds to a minute.


General Radek just added a great PDF file to the other chemtrail thread, and I am going to post it here for you. About half way through is a great picture of a plane leaving both vortexes and contrails.
Aircraft Induced Condensation
Check pages 9, 19, and 20. Page 37 has an interesting comparison of something I have championed in many other threads here on ATS, the difference between old and new engines. Page 40 has persisting wingtip vortexes that are breaking up into rings. Enjoy, its a good PDF file...



Originally posted by Bumr055
The second engine thing doesn't really make too much sense to me either.. As long as the ice crystals form if what meteorologists on this forum say is true then the conditions of the sky should keep them frozen and visible regardless of the original temperature.

Of course engine temperature makes a difference, a shut off engine is certainly not going to make a contrail...
An engine running at half throttle is not going to be running as hot as one running full thrust.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by Bumr055
 


I,m getting a little older now. Saw the SKU / UPC take and go into effect. It was a strange new system. The checker liked it, but the clerk didn't. We got usto it. And most don't know the difference today. I was a kid and saw my Pop have to change his mechandize bussiness. He did. So point being. I always looked up since being a kid. Yes their are more aircraft today. Yet, I never saw a blue sky turn cloudy by 11 am because of airplanes or jets. I today see high flying aircraft crossing the sky not in normal air traffic routes. Leaveing the huge contrails that do spread out with wind and make the sky a haze on a high preasure day. I'm not a meteorologist, but have common sense, and something is different in our skies today. They are getting us usto a new system. Information and disinformation. Just open your eyes and seek truth. My buddy in northern Washington state said he has seen cannisters and aircraft with spraying capability, on a airforce base. Is it true? Get your binoculars out and take a look. Commercial aircraft or military? G



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by Zepherian

Originally posted by Chadwickus
Five flags

five stars



Five disinfo agents?



Lol...that could be true yes. but i bet it's just same member, diferent aliases....so normal this days in ATS...


What i think weird is why "They" think they could change our belives with topics and negating all in all ways!...weird indeed.

The Truth, is inside all of us. Stop...clear your mind and listen, and you will notice it. We do not need false topics,trolls disguised as skeptics or lies to know about it!



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
I'm able to see planes so close together that they you could take a pic from a regular digital camera and see both in the pic.

Yeah, so?
That does not mean that one is not at 28,000 feet and other is at 29,000 feet.


Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Where are they all headed within a half hour of each other?

Again, because of flight banks. Lets say that they are all flights coming form Europe, and they have passengers that have to land at east coast airports then make connecting flights to other locations inland of the coast. Those planes are scheduled to leave and arrive at their destination airport in a bank so that the passengers have time to get off the plane, go through customs, and catch other flights that are also arriving at roughly the same time.

If you work at an airport, you will see this first hand, the majority of aircraft all arrive at one time, and all depart at one time. There are periods where the airport has no planes on it whatsoever unless they are broken. For example all the RON (Remain Over Night) aircraft all used to leave our station within an hour of each other, and then the airport sat empty for almost two hours until the next bank started to arrive. As it gets later, they get a bit more scattered due to various delays that they may take throughout the day.


Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Why are they at such a lower altitude if they are truly on a journey across the ocean?

Depends on the flight rules of that area, ATC hands off aircraft between controllers at specific locations and altitudes, called gates. Gates are there so the ATC person receiving the hand off has some idea of what the attitude of the aircraft he is receiving is going to be.


Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Why do they all seem to follow this exact formation whenever I'm observing and always have the trails behind them??

Because they tend to follow the same routes on a regular basis, there is certainly a pattern to ATC and the way that flights move around. These patterns due tend to change somewhat due to things like weather, and seasonal flight schedule changes, but not always that much. Somewhere like Florida has massive seasonal traffic changes based on the “snow birds”, but places like New York change very little seasonally.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
I'm able to see planes so close together that they you could take a pic from a regular digital camera and see both in the pic.

Yeah, so?
That does not mean that one is not at 28,000 feet and other is at 29,000 feet.


Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Where are they all headed within a half hour of each other?

Again, because of flight banks. Lets say that they are all flights coming form Europe, and they have passengers that have to land at east coast airports then make connecting flights to other locations inland of the coast. Those planes are scheduled to leave and arrive at their destination airport in a bank so that the passengers have time to get off the plane, go through customs, and catch other flights that are also arriving at roughly the same time.

If you work at an airport, you will see this first hand, the majority of aircraft all arrive at one time, and all depart at one time. There are periods where the airport has no planes on it whatsoever unless they are broken. For example all the RON (Remain Over Night) aircraft all used to leave our station within an hour of each other, and then the airport sat empty for almost two hours until the next bank started to arrive. As it gets later, they get a bit more scattered due to various delays that they may take throughout the day.


Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Why are they at such a lower altitude if they are truly on a journey across the ocean?

Depends on the flight rules of that area, ATC hands off aircraft between controllers at specific locations and altitudes, called gates. Gates are there so the ATC person receiving the hand off has some idea of what the attitude of the aircraft he is receiving is going to be.


Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Why do they all seem to follow this exact formation whenever I'm observing and always have the trails behind them??

Because they tend to follow the same routes on a regular basis, there is certainly a pattern to ATC and the way that flights move around. These patterns due tend to change somewhat due to things like weather, and seasonal flight schedule changes, but not always that much. Somewhere like Florida has massive seasonal traffic changes based on the “snow birds”, but places like New York change very little seasonally.


To me it still does not add up that all these planes are right up that close to each other at low altitudes, all leaving trails, and all heading east from middle of nowhere Maine right out to the Atlantic ocean. I dont' know where all those planes came from in such a short period of time and where they are headed going right towards the Atlantic. Here in rural areas of Maine we just dont have that type of normal air traffic to support this situation. But I can tell you and I will just keep talking in circles, so I'll end this disagreement here by saying we can agree to disagree. I understand how you try to explain things, but i don't feel it can explain what I'm physically looking at. Maybe if you saw what I saw I would hope you would be able to be open minded about this.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5
Hey Zorgon...
Looks like a sprayer on a military aerial insect/defoliation application.
The military does do this at low altitude in combat areas for visibility and to keep the bugs under control. Again though it does not look like chemtrails, it is done at low altitude.


So your saying the military sprays chemicals on us huh?

The image was from a run over New Orleans, not a combat area. They said it was safe but advised you cover your bar-b-que. If its so SAFE why AF Dude wearing hazmat gear



If you wake up early in the morning and happen to spot this aircraft flying over leaving a barely visible trail... do not worry its not "Chemtrails"... it is merely DIBROM, a pesticide and this single aircraft can cover 60,000 acres per day. Might be a good idea to cover the BBQ though.




U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Jacob N. Bailey

Okay so its a "barely visible trail" of chemicals but its not a 'chemtrail'


Hmmm well at least on THIS one I have proof


But not to worry... as these are safe chemicals:
Dibrom, a pesticide approved by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

According to the 'authorities' of course







[edit on 17-11-2008 by zorgon]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
I dont' know where all those planes came from in such a short period of time and where they are headed going right towards the Atlantic. Here in rural areas of Maine we just dont have that type of normal air traffic to support this situation.

OK, but those flights are most likely not originating in Maine, they are probably coming from places like Detroit and Ontario and you are seeing them head out over the ocean to Europe. You sort of changed directions on me from the last post, but it makes even more sense if they are going the other way.

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
But I can tell you and I will just keep talking in circles, so I'll end this disagreement here by saying we can agree to disagree.

That is fine if that is what you want to do, but believe me I work in the industry for a long time and nothing your saying sounds out of the ordinary in any way to me. It might seem odd to someone who does not understand how airport work, but it only seem that way.

I am sure that someone who lives to the North of the airport I used to work at thought it was odd that between 07:00 and 08:00 am they suddenly were hit by tons of air traffic departing from our airport, when they did not have an airport within 100 miles of them either. Aircraft follow routes and fly in banks, if you live along a route, you will see aircraft pass your location in groups. Nothing unusual about this whatsoever.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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Now in THIS picture we see where the 'trails' are really coming from...



Now the OFFICIAL 'story' is they are 'blowing smoke' for 'vortex studies'

Uh huh... I always buy the 'official story' especially from NASA

Point is even if they are 'smoke', they are definitely NOT CONTRAILS






posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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Now then...

A Question to Mr Oz the Weatherman...

What atmospheric conditions account for BLUE CONTRAILS?



Thanks



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
I'm able to see planes so close together that they you could take a pic from a regular digital camera and see both in the pic.

Yeah, so?
That does not mean that one is not at 28,000 feet and other is at 29,000 feet.


Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Where are they all headed within a half hour of each other?

Again, because of flight banks. Lets say that they are all flights coming form Europe, and they have passengers that have to land at east coast airports then make connecting flights to other locations inland of the coast. Those planes are scheduled to leave and arrive at their destination airport in a bank so that the passengers have time to get off the plane, go through customs, and catch other flights that are also arriving at roughly the same time.

If you work at an airport, you will see this first hand, the majority of aircraft all arrive at one time, and all depart at one time. There are periods where the airport has no planes on it whatsoever unless they are broken. For example all the RON (Remain Over Night) aircraft all used to leave our station within an hour of each other, and then the airport sat empty for almost two hours until the next bank started to arrive. As it gets later, they get a bit more scattered due to various delays that they may take throughout the day.


Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Why are they at such a lower altitude if they are truly on a journey across the ocean?

Depends on the flight rules of that area, ATC hands off aircraft between controllers at specific locations and altitudes, called gates. Gates are there so the ATC person receiving the hand off has some idea of what the attitude of the aircraft he is receiving is going to be.


Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Why do they all seem to follow this exact formation whenever I'm observing and always have the trails behind them??

Because they tend to follow the same routes on a regular basis, there is certainly a pattern to ATC and the way that flights move around. These patterns due tend to change somewhat due to things like weather, and seasonal flight schedule changes, but not always that much. Somewhere like Florida has massive seasonal traffic changes based on the “snow birds”, but places like New York change very little seasonally.


Oh and how come you pick and choose what to answer? You find something you can twist in your favor or "explain away", yet ignore my earlier question of >> what about governments or respected agents of governments who have admitted to the testing of poisons or the attempts to control the weather by spraying through the air?? >>



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:07 PM
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imageevent.com...

www.watchthesky.org...

www.youtube.com...

get back to me on this.

man i pray u prove me wrong





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