Real Contrail Science, why they persist and why they spread out and why they are not chemtrails

Forgive my ignorance, but I too am trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. When I came across that video of a cylindrical-shaped object spewing what appears to be 'chemtrails', the first impression I got was that it could a guided missile. I take that the distortion in middle part of this object could be its 'wings'.

reply to post by pikypiky


Stop derailing this thread by sidelining into a retarded low resolution picture of what seems to be an airliner. Even if it is something else, it's just too bad to tell and as such not worth our time. Derail this thread by pointing out how the OP is wrong about chemtrails not being real, by standing up for truth.

That silly picture has it's own thread if you bother to look for it, and the Moderators are being lazy on this one.

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by wmd_2008
A lot of posts on here are CLAIMING every CON TRAIL is a CHEM TRAIL
spraying my city etc etc.

Are you referring to a different thread than this one, as I have not seen A SINGLE post that claims this, let alone 'a lot of posts'?

Do you preview your posts before hitting the 'Post Reply' button? - certainly doesn't look like it.

Originally posted by voodmon
Well i can certainly reply, they have been relentless over victoria bc for weeks and weeks, months, they even did a donut right over the airport where the original whistle blower resided, wish i had my camera, i have many too many pics starting in may this year, complete with u turns etc, when they are doing this, and it is they plural, the us airforce in co-hoots with whom ever is paying the bill, i have downloaded satellite shots, printed mind you because you cannot save satellite shot the us ones anyway, the 4 kilo animated from a day or two before ? the hurricane ? weather mods,? you bet, are they monitering me? you bet, did i send this stuff to a safe place? you bet, i posted on a local weather site that day that i was monitoring the 1 kilo image, i then went for a walk, when i returned they had blanked out the west coast sat image precisely where i was looking, so i went back to the 4 kilo animated which has 30 min intervals, and yes they blanked it out too for the period of what they they are doing, so? I know i am going to get mucho flack for this one, but #1 are they really doing this ? inequivecably, YES, a patch of blue sky appears and they are right there, yes we see the commercial traffic above where contrails naturally form and dissipate, the sky becomes this milky pale blue as in the wrong color, so obvious, there is a glare to the whole sky, no way a person can look anywhere near the sun, even when storm systems come in they are doing this above the storm clouds, and as , the other strange thing is, i live on the edge of the pacific ocean, where the hell are jets going north too? out over the pacific, sure alaska, not jets that big, and they overfly are not heading for seattle or vancouver, and sometimes are piggy backing, so not commercial, thus military, JP8 fuel perhaps long range bombers and kc 10 and kc 135 strato tankers, ongoing you bet, i have had co-workers tell me that they went out on thier deck at 2 in the morning under a full moon and looked up into a sky with a criss cross grid in it, doubt? for me none, whatever they are doing is edward tellers madness, and the long term repercussions for humanity and the planet in general are lethal to put it mildly. The only option in my mind is talking about this practise, pointing it out to other people, because once you learn to see spew for what it is you will always be able to spot it, then we as a people must speak out as 1, because what they are doing is total madness....cheers all

Is that one good enough for you!!!!!

In bold some of his claims there are others making similar statements.

reply to post by Zepherian


Somewhat hypocritical there, Zepherian? I would suggest everyone stick to the topic instead of relentless hypocrite spam about the opposing arguement. Notice when one person who you agree with posts something that is derailing, you don't care; but when someone else does it, there's hell to pay? zorgon posted that video on page twenty.

What's worse? Ozweatherman got warned a few pages ago. The last 4 pages have been ab hominem, derailing, attacks on Oz being derailing, ab hominem, yet these same posts THEMSELVES, get warned. It IS Hypocritical.

[edit on 23/11/2008 by C0bzz]

reply to post by C0bzz


I'm holding my position in the chemtrail debate, which is they are real and we need to know what is being done to us, even if only climate manipulation. Still, technically I'm derailling a thread which is about a claimed meteorologist ranting about contrails and how we know nothing about them and they explain everything. UFO's is a bit much, especially when it's almost certainly just a low res picture of either a normal airliner (more probable) or an actual chemtrail delivery airframe (possible but more unlikely).

So not really hypocritical, no. I would rather the thread stay centered around chemtrails, contrails and airplanes, which I think is the real issue here.

Before things get out of hand in this thread, let's all take a minute to think before we post. Use the time to review this ATS-Policy: Civility & Decorum are Expected

Everyone needs to be very familiar with this policy.

'Nuff said.


[edit on 23-11-2008 by NGC2736]

reply to post by Zepherian


A good place to start would be waiting for actual evidence of chemtrails - ie a direct sample of one showing what it contains - as without that there is no rational reason to believe they exist. It is obviously still unknown, by its very definition.

reply to post by dave420


Like I have answered before, I don't think that's the way to go. We have enough evidence suggesting the chemtrail mass spraying op, even if it is just massive weather control, is real. So I think it would be more productive to find the people who are doing this, see who they are and what sort of hierarquical structure they fall under, and my bet is U.N, and make them explain what is happening and provide samples. This is not bigfoot we're trying to photograph here, there are people that can be found. All we have to do is keep a closer eye on the sky and identify the airbases and/or airports these things fly from.

I don't expect they are spraying the exact same things all the time, so your solution, if it were ever to be enacted, would only give a partial view of the situation anyway.

reply to post by Zepherian


You need evidence it is happening. Otherwise all you have is evidence it might be happening, which isn't enough to get anyone on your side. I know it's difficult to get, but it's essential if you want anyone to believe what you are saying. I'm sure you're very convinced by what you've found, but people operating on a more, and I apologise for using this word, rational level will require actual evidence of something before accepting that it happens.

My solution would prove something is happening. Your evidence doesn't even do that, I'm afraid. One positive hit and you'd be able to get the world's media involved. As it it you are asking people to make massive leaps of faith in accepting something as happening when there is no evidence of it actually happening.

reply to post by dave420


There is a not so subtle difference between rationality and denial. It is more or less the same situation as truth and disinformation.

Like I said, I am warning you. I don't need proof because what I have seen was quite clear as to what was happening. You don't need proof, you need the experience, and you would change your tune quick enough. Unless you're not as rational as you think you are.

But I'm repeating myself. Chemtrails don't need to be proven as if it were some speculative theory, they are reports, the people need to be taken seriously and what is happening needs to be investigated. We don't need to waste time debating if they even need to be experimentally verified, I have told you, and all the other debunkers, this repeatedly.

In this regards the situation is identical to another one which I have also witnessed, which is the UFO debacle. It is clear to anyone with logical thought and a tint of intuition that something is happening. We don't need to scientifically verify if anything is happening, we need to scientifically determine exactly what is going on. Same for chemtrails, it's silly to deny the mountain of evidence, and remeber evidence is not proof, and put this situation in such uncertain terms, no, what has to happen is people like you need to focus, get your heads on straight, and frame this issue how it has to be framed:

We are being ocasionally yet persistantly sprayed by unknown airframes with unknown chemicals for unknown reasons. These unknowns need to be investigated. I repeat, the above is more or less consensual, despite the efforts of some people to make it seem not, so abandon the silly notion it is not, that ship has sailed as far as I, and probably millions like me, have noticed.

You always come back to a core denial of the phenomenon, and reality does not support your assumption, because really that is what it is, a baseless assumption.

Watch this



imageevent.com...

Chemtrails are real!

They are caused by people eating beans before flying.

Come on, surely everyone knows that?

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by dave420

 

Like I have answered before, I don't think that's the way to go. We have enough evidence suggesting the chemtrail mass spraying op, even if it is just massive weather control, is real.

The one thing it definitely isn't is weather control You don't control weather by creating artificial cirrus clouds, although as oft times pointed out, you may enhance global warming by doing so.

And I don't think 'chemtrails' are a secret operation to cause global warming.

I remain unaware of any evidence to suggest that what people see and claim are chemtrails are anything but normal contrails. Nor of any proof that they occur other than when normal contrails would be expected to occur due to know atmospheric conditions. The fact they are extensively studied to improve our predictions of when they will occur and learn more about any long term climate impact they may have, does rather such to me that they are not a secret operation of any sort.

But as I keep saying, if spraying of chemicals at altitude does take place, there's no reason whatsoever to suppose it'd be in any way visible from the ground.

Smokes and mirrors?

Originally posted by Essan

The one thing it definitely isn't is weather control

You don't control weather by creating artificial cirrus clouds, although as oft times pointed out, you may enhance global warming by doing so.

And I don't think 'chemtrails' are a secret operation to cause global warming.

there is a study (seen it on discovery) - a researcher gathered temperature and sunlight data between 9/11/01 (yes after the towers fell) when all the planes were grounded - until 9/14/01 when they started flying again. it turned out the weather was HOTTER by a few degrees and water evaporated quicker from some barrels compared to days when planes were flying. so if these trails do anything it's cooling off the planet...

i dont have a link to the study but i'm sure you can google it. it was a discovery documentary about "global dimming the new ice age" or smth...

reply to post by Essan


Smokes and mirrors? No, my guess is plausible deniability and a false flag. I have already hinted at this, but to get this done, the world elites who undoubtadly would be behind it, have to fool the people doing it, which means they need a believable pretext. This is where global warming comes in. And global dimming. And probably a few other global lies. Mixed in with that would be the chemical, nanotechnological and/or biological pathogens of a more black ops agenda being perpetuated by the spooks, probably missinformed too. And behind these we have the scientists actually doing the research, probably being lied to as to overpopulation data and environmental collapse... or maybe just insane. The higher the education the greater the predisposition for mental problems in my experience.

There is a whole construct of lies around this issue, and my guess is at least some of the debunkers on this thread fall into it somewhere. This is how the world works. The lie is different at every level.

Besides, chemtrails could only be the tip of the iceberg in what these lunatics are doing, who knows what other atmospheric manipulation might be happening. I'm not saying it is, but if you accept the NWO type elitist manipulation scenario, as I do, you realise we have reasons to be wary, and there could indeed be accessory operations which are not easily visable.

The heart of the problem is lack of indisputable data
I am still hovering on the fence on this one because.....
a) I agree with a lot of aspects of the initial post, and I am convinced that a lot of “chemtrail” claims are just contrails – and what does not help is people who try and take contrail pictures and mis-use pictures to try and convince others that “chemtrails” are real
b) It is FACT that cloud seeding and other “spraying” has been done and is done for weather modification – Laws were brought in to try and stop/control weather modification – but how successful the laws are at stopping folks playing the with weather remains to be seen. This type of spraying could be called “chemtrails” and mistaken as such
c) It is likely that with current satellite technology – secret movements in warfare becomes very difficult. I am sure the technology exists, tested and used to create a “cloud” barrier over battlefield movements – even blocking infra red etc using additives, just like the additives added to battlefield smoke screens. One of the most convincing pieces of evidence of this occurred not too long ago in Germany. There was some type of European military training exercise going on, and a meteorologist noticed a sudden rapid build up of cloud over the area from weather satellite observations– completely outside of any weather pattern or expectations. This was so dramatic that the meteorologist attempted to bring a law suit against the military for weather modification. I could try and track down details of this if anyone is interested. So I am sure that there are military “cloud blanket” technologies out there to hide movements from satellite. These technologies will of course be developed and tested somewhere !
d) I have read two “conspiracy” stories about chemtrails, one of which involves attempts to reflect the sun’s radiation away from the earth to counteract global warming, another is to do with population control. The 1st one is possible but unlikely, the second would need to be low-level spraying (or was that spaying?) like crop spraying, otherwise there would be no control over where the spray landed! Hence very very very unlikely !

If I was to say what is most likely and fits most evidence – I would say most are misinterpreted contrails, and the rest is weather modification and warfare technology, and we see some of the testing...

Originally posted by sjb5000
c) It is likely that with current satellite technology – secret movements in warfare becomes very difficult. I am sure the technology exists, tested and used to create a “cloud” barrier over battlefield movements – even blocking infra red etc using additives, just like the additives added to battlefield smoke screens. One of the most convincing pieces of evidence of this occurred not too long ago in Germany. There was some type of European military training exercise going on, and a meteorologist noticed a sudden rapid build up of cloud over the area from weather satellite observations– completely outside of any weather pattern or expectations. This was so dramatic that the meteorologist attempted to bring a law suit against the military for weather modification.

i can believe small-scale clouding to be feasible over a battlefield for a few hours, maybe a day weather permitting. i can accept that the military has that.

but i cant accept they are doing this on a planetary level to kill/poison people. why would russia work with the americans and the west to poison their own populations? i still don't get that and it's just too much fuel that would be wasted.

reply to post by DarkSecret


Then read up on the NWO conspiracies, as they give insight as to how the world really is run. The people who are in charge of our society are not at all the people most people believe that are, and are much more self serving and shadowy personages.

Originally posted by Zepherian
Then read up on the NWO conspiracies, as they give insight as to how the world really is run. The people who are in charge of our society are not at all the people most people believe that are, and are much more self serving and shadowy personages.

Well... NWO? I don't think so...

Prescott Bush, Rockefellers and Standard Oil funded the NAZI's into power... that is now history.
Timeline of Treason: The Bush Family Connections to the Nazis
www.spiritone.com...

Rockefeller's support Euthanasia on a mass scale
www.lewrockwell.com...

Rockefellers support Eugenics
www.ecosyn.us...


Bush Family, Rockefellers and Exxon are still in power today

Whatever Happened to Standard Oil?
www.us-highways.com...

THE HISTORY OF THE STANDARD OIL COMPANY
www.history.rochester.edu...

Exxon recorded record EVER quarter profits in the first year of the Iraqi "Freedom" 'war' while you shelled out willingly at the gas pumps.

NWO? What NWO? Its the just the Old World Order doing business as usual.


Would they spray us?

Look at 9/11 and the 'rumors' of government involvement

Look at Gitmo, the tortures and illegal detainments

Look at the missing 3.5 TRILLION that was reported on 9/10, forgotten the next day as Bush asked for BILLIONS more to blitz Iraq and Afghanistan

9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon
www.youtube.com...

McKinney Grills Rumsfeld
www.youtube.com...

Look at this...
The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder By Vincent Bugliosi,
www.alternet.org...

'Prosecution of George W Bush for Murder!' Vincent Bugliosi
www.youtube.com...

Look at this...
Bush attempts to Pardon himself and his cohorts
www.youtube.com...

Look at this...
Halliburton, and Dick Cheney, are killing our troops
www.abovetopsecret.com...
This post
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Chemtrails? Wouldn't put it past them at all

But it seems that is the least of our worries





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[edit on 25-11-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by marsha law
Watch this



imageevent.com...

LOL you CANNOT prove that ANY of the CON TRAILS shown are CHEMTRAILS
it is laughable, just because they see these trails criss cross that makes them chemtrails LOL.
HAVE any of you chemtrailers ACTUALLY flown in a plane you can look out of an aircraft at cruising height and see many others flying below, above all flying in different directions so the criss cross patterns will happen

[edit on 25-11-2008 by wmd_2008]