Real Contrail Science, why they persist and why they spread out and why they are not chemtrails

reply to post by thefreepatriot


Wasn't Ted Kennedy who introduced this legislation? Yeah, we've all been a little worried about ol Teddy. You know how he likes the sauce a bit.
i wouldn't be taking Teddy too seriously in this case. Poor sap doesnt even know what day it is.

reply to post by donhuangenaro


You do realize this video has been edited BY chemtrailers do you?
The original is about chaff used to confuse radar and make a big radar return to screw with enemy AA sites. The person/s who made the "translation" changed it to mean chemtrails. Another lie/disinfo by chemtrailers caught.

Originally posted by ohioriver
Nice post on contrails. Unfortunately, contrails are not chemtrails. I cannot accept your logic. I personally have seen the difference between the two. One dissipates quickly.

Chemtrails dissipate quickly?

We've known for decades that contrails can persist for hours or even days.

Don't beleive me? Well check out these papers





[edit on 22-11-2008 by Essan]

reply to post by Essan


That was sleezy of you. Clearly he meant that normal contrails, like so many I see almost every day, dissipate quickly, while atmospheric spraying of unknown elements, usually under the cover of cloud seeding, leave a persistant trail which expands into cloud cover.

The transparency of your rhetorical tricks betray your agenda, and I would add fool nobody, no matter how dumb you think the people are.

reply to post by dave420


Don't bring Carl Sagan into this, let him rest in peace. Besides, you have the extraordinary reports of thousands of people, you have the extraordinary clouds. You have the extraordinary flightpaths of unidentified airframes. You have plenty of extraordinary evidence, right there, in front of your eyes and beneath your fingertips, if you chose to go out and actually look for it. It's all there.

That's what you're trying to hide, is it not?

Originally posted by dave420 As Carl Sagan said - "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence",

That coming from a man who wanted to Nuke the Moon

reply to post by zorgon


Carl Sagan was part of a group working on an Air Force project to examine the effects of detonating a nuclear device on the moon as a cold war demonstration of US military abilities. It was not his idea and there is no evidence that he actually wanted to do it. As "bonus" of the demonstration Sagan pointed out that one of the effects would be a chance to look for evidence of life on the moon. He was 24 years old at the time.

In an exclusive interview with The Observer, Dr Leonard Reiffel, 73, the physicist who fronted the project in the late Fifties at the US military-backed Armour Research Foundation, revealed America's extraordinary lunar plan.

'It was clear the main aim of the proposed detonation was a PR exercise and a show of one-upmanship. The Air Force wanted a mushroom cloud so large it would be visible on earth,' he said yesterday. 'The US was lagging behind in the space race.'

'The explosion would obviously be best on the dark side of the moon and the theory was that if the bomb exploded on the edge of the moon, the mushroom cloud would be illuminated by the sun.' The bomb would have been at least as large as the one used on Hiroshima at the end of World War II.

'I made it clear at the time there would be a huge cost to science of destroying a pristine lunar environment, but the US Air Force were mainly concerned about how the nuclear explosion would play on earth,' said Reiffel.

Source

[edit on 22-11-2008 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
Carl Sagan was part of a group working on an Air Force project to examine the effects of detonating a nuclear device on the moon as a cold war demonstration of US military abilities. It was not his idea and there is no evidence that he actually wanted to do it.

Part of the team researching the hypothetical explosion was a young Carl Sagan, who was recruited to study how the mushroom cloud would expand and collapse under the moons lighter gravity. Sagan proposed that a legitimate scientific purpose for the explosion could have been examining the cloud for possible organic material.

Years later, Sagan apparently presented some of the results of his research on the project in an application for an academic fellowship. Reiffel believes that by doing so Sagan breached national security, as the primary secret of the project was its very existence. This breach of security was discussed in a recent biography of the astronomer, but was not detailed in that book.

www.space.com...

"Yep Charlie there WAS life on the Moon"

Other scientific investigations related to the project were carried out by Sagan but we only know the titles of these: "Possible Contribution of Lunar Nuclear Weapons Detonations to the Solution of Some Problems in Planetary Astronomy" and "Radiological Contamination of the Moon by Nuclear Weapons Detonations". This second paper, in particular, dealt with the effects of radioactive fallout on the surface of the Moon, which could have altered Lunar geology research for centuries to come. Of course the military were not at all concerned by this problem.

utenti.lycos.it...

But we digress... the topic police will pounce


[edit on 22-11-2008 by zorgon]

i tend to agree with the original poster - that these trails in the sky are not part of some terrible extermination plan but rather the exhaust of planes combined with weather patterns.

i can tell you that these trails were visible in several Eastern European countries before the iron curtain/USSR fell. i really doubt the commies worked with the western powers to set up any global system.

secondly it doesn't make sense to have governments air-spray their own populations. i think "all you can eat" buffets, coca-cola, microwaves and plastic bottles are far more efficient in killing people - to name just a few ways that are government approved. all these also create profits for many companies. who gets any profits form wasting so much plane fuel AND poisoning the population? commercial flights on the other hand would perfectly justify the trails - because they are profitable. so unless there's smth mixed into the fuel (which would not surprise me) - i dont believe in modified planes made to poison us.

i would accept that the "chemtrails" would be some sort of radar system. i would even accept that - considering the evidence for magnetic pole reversal - they are trying to create an artificial shield for the cosmic radiation that would kill all life when (not if) the natural magnetic field of the planet fails. even though it's predicted it will fail over the next 3000 years or so - not a very urgent issue.

but really - killing us?! we already kill ourselves by over-eating, sedentary lifestyle, other unhealthy habits... i don't see a profit in this. besides Europe and the US are not even over-populated to accept the possibility that they are trying to control the size of the population. i would rather believe they would try to kill the chinese or indians who have over 1/3 the population of the planet...

what about the families and friends of those "in the know" who participate in the program? are these hundreds of thousands of ppl willing to die with the rest of us or are they all vaccinated or somehow protected?

just my opinion.

[edit on 22-11-2008 by DarkSecret]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


The "chemtrail" theories that I have been exposed to offer a list of ingredients in chemtrails that are not produced by aircraft engines. I don't know how they got the air samples to test or why they would produce inaccurate information.

So I became a believer in chemtrails but could never accept the motivation that it was to poison all of us "useless eaters"; which is obviously distorted reasoning because even the families of the elites breath the same air as we poor, useless slobs.

The motivation I did accept was that chemtrails had something to do with HAARP or they acted as a reflective shield to protect us from harmful rays coming from the sun. But then why the need for secrecy? And which government agency would be responsible for spreading the chemtrail, and where are the aircraft kept. I have seen chemtrails on the east coast, in the midwest, and out in the southwestern desert where I can see the sky for 360 degrees. A project this huge would be hard to keep clandestine.

Your explanation makes sense; trying to poison us all with heavy metals falling from the sky does not. That is the final test of any conspiracy theory: does it make sense, who has something to gain and who has the opportunity to do the deed. (I heard that line - or something like it - in a movie

:@@

Anyhow, thanks for the clarification - but I still think "THEY"are up to something.

reply to post by vBreezo


"which is obviously distorted reasoning because even the families of the elites breath the same air as we poor, useless slobs."

You don't actually believe that do you?

Technically yes, it is the same air.... But before that air reaches them it passes through some of the most sophisticated filtering systems available - in both their cars and homes.

I'm sure they face brief periods of exposure during transitions to and from these protected environs, but that is a small price to pay to be under the protection of the NATO Aerosolized Defense Grid - which is meant to protect us all from nuclear annihilation, albeit at the expense of our health.

Originally posted by TruthTellist

I'm sure they face brief periods of exposure during transitions to and from these protected environs, but that is a small price to pay to be under the protection of the NATO Aerosolized Defense Grid - which is meant to protect us all from nuclear annihilation, albeit at the expense of our health.

Ah yes, NATO's ADG. Chemtrail websites talk of grids but they don't speak of the true purpose. They must be ignorant or too frightened to mention it.

How fortunate we are to have such brave souls to warn us of the dangers to which we are so blind.

[edit on 23-11-2008 by Phage]

[edit on 23-11-2008 by Phage]

Somehow I am lead to believe that NATO’s ADG (including the Navy’s sonar system) is really meant to protect us all from nuclear attacks despite the remote possibility that ‘THEY’ are trying to kill off not only people (but whales, dolphins and porpoises, too).

Most chemtrail website tout the worst-case scenarios as the reality of the situation - they couldn't be more wrong.

Chemtrails are good and keep us safe

I bet the government even adds essential vitamins and minerals - just for our benefit.

We should be glad of the spraying. I know I am.


*Example: Heavy metal particulate can virtually nullify the radar-absorbant qualities of the 'stealth-enhancing' coatings on our planes and their missiles (Russia, China). In conjunction with Lidar, the particulate acts as a reflector of sorts, greatly enhancing the strength of a signal in saturated airspace.

*Also, Essan, how about some credible substantiation for those ludicrous claim you have been touting. You made all these ridiculous claims, and have yet to provide us with supporting evidence of any kind whatsoever.

You and Oz are both touting the same claims, yet neither of you have provided us with the known prerequisites - in the form of evidence. I understand if you can't provide us with any proof, the nature of your claims being so ludicrous, and lacking and corroborative citations.....

And so, thus far your arguments are have been and continue to be completely baseless and unsupported; which is why you consistently resort to nit-picking, mischaracterization, terminological inexactitudes and blatant ad hominem attacks - not to mention the feigned ignorance; respective to the vast amounts of supporting literature and research that supports the well-researched hypotheses of your opponents, such as Zepherian, Zorgon and Myself.

To thus particular thread, I myself have contributed 158 links of relevant & corroborative research, literature, patents, military stratagem and numerous analysis that fully support and substantiate the claims and hypotheses of proponents of the man-made chemtrail phenomenon. (At least a hundred more have been contributed by other concerned members.)

You or your cohorts have yet to provide us with any such material. I doubt any of you will be forthcoming with the necessary prerequisites that go along with the claims you have been touting thus far.



[edit on 23-11-2008 by TruthTellist]


Mod Note: Forum Image Linking Policy – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 23/11/08 by Jbird]

*posted in wrong thread. I'm old, forgive me.

[edit on 23-11-2008 by TruthTellist]

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by Essan

 

That was sleezy of you. Clearly he meant that normal contrails, like so many I see almost every day, dissipate quickly, while atmospheric spraying of unknown elements, usually under the cover of cloud seeding, leave a persistant trail which expands into cloud cover.

How's it sleezy?

Normal contrails can persist for hours, and even spread out to cover the whole sky. It's been well known for decades. As shown in many of the papers I linked to.

And why bring cloud seeding into it? That takes place in/above pre existing low level clouds and is not in any way visible from the ground.

You may not like the truth. But it's ain't sleezy

So.... lets have a look at this one....

Any guesses?

A strange spraying cylinder UFO



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by zorgon
So.... lets have a look at this one....

Any guesses?

A strange spraying cylinder UFO

sorry to disappoint you but that looks just like a small plane. the imperfection you see half way are the wings - the cameraman is filming a small plane performing a turn. optical illusion just that. if you had some sort of super-zoom camera and got a very clear picture of the object we could say yeah it's a cylinder.

but you don't so it's just a small plane slightly turned on its side. the rudder is not visible for the same reason the wing or cockpit are not visible - lens is not good enough to focus so the image is blurred.

isnt it ironic how all the UFO sightings and conspiracy theorists base their theories on blurry unfocused images? give me a high-rez image of a UFO with all the details and i'll buy it!

[edit on 23-11-2008 by DarkSecret]

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by vBreezo

 

"which is obviously distorted reasoning because even the families of the elites breath the same air as we poor, useless slobs."

You don't actually believe that do you?

Technically yes, it is the same air.... But before that air reaches them it passes through some of the most sophisticated filtering systems available - in both their cars and homes.
I'm sure they face brief periods of exposure during transitions to and from these protected environs, but that is a small price to pay to be under the protection of the NATO Aerosolized Defense Grid - which is meant to protect us all from nuclear annihilation, albeit at the expense of our health.

YOU really need a reality check so what would happen when they are out and about walking in the city etc what about their family do they walk about with some space suit on

The other thing and more to the point your proof or some of what you drink or smoke I could make a fortune with that it must be good stuff

Originally posted by zorgon
So.... lets have a look at this one....

Any guesses?

A strange spraying cylinder UFO

www.abovetopsecret.com...

LOL this thing is so BLOWN up mpeg artifacts the slight peak pointed out in the middle looks like it will be the wing to me!

Clutching at straws with that one if you have a high power zoom on a digital video give it a try.

Best example of the problem with mpeg artifacts is all these idiots on the
net who post the reptilian videos.