Real Contrail Science, why they persist and why they spread out and why they are not chemtrails , page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 61 times


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 06:34 PM by defcon5
Originally posted by Bumr055Funny how it's sort of addressed to the newer members becasue when I came here it gave me the impression that everyone on this site thought chemtrails were bogus but as I saw it was the same people over and over again.. same people posted in this thread too.

Actually there was a much, much older group then the current crowd if you have been here long enough. They were also very knowledgeable people on the subject, guys like OffTheStreet, and others who's names I have forgotten over the years. Most of them have slowly disappeared off of ATS. It still does not change the facts of the subject thought.

Originally posted by Bumr055
I guess I can ask a question now(not a new one I might sound like a broken record now but I never got a satisfying answer)
and it is.. How can a plane appear to have 2 separate trails one that I would call a contrail(dissipated or faded in under 30 seconds) and one that I would call a chemtrail(does not dissipate just spread) so close together and all the way along the entire sky?

It sounds like one is a actual contrail generated by the engine, while the other is a wingtip vortex. Vortex's form due to pressure changes at the wingtip, and become visible in humid air. They dissipate much faster as they do not create actual ice like a contrail does. You can see one at the end of this video when the fighter plane is landing:


Originally posted by Bumr055
The planes were not doing any fancy maneuvers so the 'wingtip vortex' explanation didn't fit right with me.

They don't have to be doing anything fancy, in the video the aircraft is simply landing. Again, every time I have seen one generated it has been due to high humidity levels.

Originally posted by Bumr055Also the sky being a fluid/different temps different location(you know what I'm talking about) one didn't seem right either because It doesn't seem likely that this would be a perfect line all the way along the sky.

Another option might be that the second engine was running at a different speed and thus a different temperature. An aircraft can run with one engine shut completely down if need be, they simply trim out the plane to account for the loss of an engine.

I still vote Vortex though...


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 06:37 PM by Anonymous ATS
Come on! Is there no one going to respond to these 3 or 4 people who are obviously in collusion? Skeptics, as it were? It's ok to get all scientific about YOUR side of the story. I agree, there are differences that should be noted about contrails and chemtrails but how do you explain things like Morgellons syndrome which has fibers and toxins (some fibers nano-engineered and self replicating) which has been linked to a scientifically observed hepa-filter extraction directly from some of these "chem" trails. You have made your case that everyone is crazy for suggesting that there are high levels of Barium and Aluminum and a myriad of other chemicals that are toxic to the body and that's fine, but just because YOU say it doesn't, doesn't make it so. Let's take a look at some evidence to conversely give back credibility and dignity to those whom you have stolen it from.
For instance, here is a legitimate scientific company from Arizona who did a hepa-filter grab from the skies of several suspected chemtrails. The company's name is Legend Group and you can find their webpage at legend-group.com , you will also notice this information in the top left of this lab test result here
imageevent.com...
As you can clearly see this lends proof that the skies ARE being seeded. Just for clarification as to why they are doing this? It's because of the New-Age old problem of over population. No better way to thin out the herd generationally than to do it en masse. Poisoning the air, water and lest we forget our food.
Here are some more photos of fibers extracted from peoples bodies who have Morgellons disease. Notice the first picture where a thread was observed on a nano level and like right out of a science fiction novel it was discovered that it was no less than a man-made nano machine that actually replicates itself and communicates with other strands (or fibers) to plot corresponding paths that mutually complete the whole of the disease. This is the creepy-crawly feeling that Morgellons victims are experiencing because there actually ARE fibers inside of them crawling....or replicating.There are also crystals found in these people.What disease has 'red, white and blue' and black fibers that grow out of a persons skin anyway? It just sounds engineered anyway.
For those of you who don't know what Morgellons Syndrome is ...google it and notice all of the confusion that surrounds this mystery. The answers are being overlooked and blown off as "conspiracy" just like everything else that ultimately becomes truth. {cough, cough BUSH). yeah remember being called names for pulling that guys punk card? now look at, NOT just America, but the whole world. Will conspiracy theorists get any credit? Not on your life. I remember dynamically the amount of skeptics just like these guys that went out and tried to make all look foolish for suspecting anything out of the norm regarding Gov't. We all know how that turned out these past 8 years. Anyway peeps, do your own investigating and don't be fooled by these guys who write and respond to each other and then go to work with each other as well or at the very least have one thing in common, they all just follow like sheep no matter the evidence.
Look around people and you will find more evidence, don't just take these guys words for it and don't take mine either look for yourselves and you will find the right answer. Yeah, what the guy says here is all true about the air and ice particles etc. but it does not apply to EVERYTHING. The best way to hide in a forest is to dress like a tree, in essence, the best place to hide evil deeds are in plain sight and tell people that it is not only innocent government play but that it is actually good for you. Here they do neither, but it is masqueraded as plane exhaust despite some peoples claims that they saw the pumps turn off and on.
bellaciao.org...


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 06:45 PM by defcon5
reply to post by Bumr055

It just dawned on me what you are talking about with the aircraft making drastic maneuvers, you mean Prandtl-Glauert Singularity. That is caused by air pressure when a part of an aircraft approaches transonic speed. Wingtip Vortexes are always present on an aircraft, but they only become visible when humidity or some other medium, such as rain allows them to be visible.



reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 06:50 PM by jaysconspiracy
Oz..... I'm new to posting but have been reading for years, so I'm very familiar with your hard core attempts at educating people on the whole contrail / chemtail issue. But I do worry sometime that you are a closed minded debunker and here is why. Most people on this site ( i say most, definately not all ) are open minded and willing to accept the possibilities of conspiracy type affairs that could be taking place. But it seems to me, you wish to crush the chemtrail issue altogether. All the scientific jargon in the world can explain why most of what we see are simple contrails. But none of that can change my mind when I see the more suspicous things going on around my area. Planes typically will be seen going in different directions depending on where they happen to be headed. But on occasion I'll see over a dozen planes going by. They go by in a very very short period of time. So quickly that most of the time as one plane is going over tree lines and out of view, there is another plane already coming into view. They are close enough to each other that they could both be captured in the same camera shot. After the first plane goes by, the rest go by just off to the side of the first, so they are close just like the "grid pattern" discussions you hear about. They all have the clouds trailing them as well. And they are always, always going in the exact same direction. So as a logical man who works with odds. Why would I believe that its normal to see over a dozen planes all fly by in such a very short period of time, all in the same exact pattern. All so close to each other which is not allowed by FAA rules. And why do I never see planes in my area following each other in the patters going in a different direction? And why do the planes that do follow this pattern always seem to be the type that leave behind a trail? And when I call the local airport ( Bar Harbor airport in Trenton Maine ) do they have no answer for where these planes came from, why they were flying so close or where they are headed? Again, I've never seen planes fly in this pattern in different directions and besides these events have never seen planes that close together. And they are always leaving a trail when seen in this fashion. And the local airport has no answer for what is going on......
Regardless on if you consider yourself an conspiracy man, you as a logical man should be able to deduct that this is not normal. This is not regular flights of people going to the Bahamas. Besides my local airport, there is no nearby airport that I can blame for having this type of traffic. It doesnt add up. And as an odds man, I'd be willing to bet that the odds are against this being normal air traffic. If you've never seen this type of thing in action, maybe you are blinded by your belief, or not looking enough.


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:06 PM by Phenomium
reply to post by OzWeatherman

Come on! Is there no one going to respond to these 3 or 4 people who are obviously in collusion? Skeptics, as it were? It's ok to get all scientific about YOUR side of the story. I agree, there are differences that should be noted about contrails and chemtrails but how do you explain things like Morgellons syndrome which has fibers and toxins (some fibers nano-engineered and self replicating) which has been linked to a scientifically observed hepa-filter extraction directly from some of these "chem" trails. You have made your case that everyone is crazy for suggesting that there are high levels of Barium and Aluminum and a myriad of other chemicals that are toxic to the body and that's fine, but just because YOU say it doesn't, doesn't make it so. Let's take a look at some evidence to conversely give back credibility and dignity to those whom you have stolen it from.
For instance, here is a legitimate scientific company from Arizona who did a hepa-filter grab from the skies of several suspected chemtrails. The company's name is Legend Group and you can find their webpage at legend-group.com , you will also notice this information in the top left of this lab test result here
imageevent.com...
As you can clearly see this lends proof that the skies ARE being seeded. Just for clarification as to why they are doing this? It's because of the New-Age old problem of over population. No better way to thin out the herd generationally than to do it en masse. Poisoning the air, water and lest we forget our food.
Here are some more photos of fibers extracted from peoples bodies who have Morgellons disease. Notice the first picture where a thread was observed on a nano level and like right out of a science fiction novel it was discovered that it was no less than a man-made nano machine that actually replicates itself and communicates with other strands (or fibers) to plot corresponding paths that mutually complete the whole of the disease. This is the creepy-crawly feeling that Morgellons victims are experiencing because there actually ARE fibers inside of them crawling....or replicating.There are also crystals found in these people.What disease has 'red, white and blue' and black fibers that grow out of a persons skin anyway? It just sounds engineered anyway.
For those of you who don't know what Morgellons Syndrome is ...google it and notice all of the confusion that surrounds this mystery. The answers are being overlooked and blown off as "conspiracy" just like everything else that ultimately becomes truth. {cough, cough BUSH). yeah remember being called names for pulling that guys punk card? now look at, NOT just America, but the whole world. Will conspiracy theorists get any credit? Not on your life. I remember dynamically the amount of skeptics just like these guys that went out and tried to make all look foolish for suspecting anything out of the norm regarding Gov't. We all know how that turned out these past 8 years. Anyway peeps, do your own investigating and don't be fooled by these guys who write and respond to each other and then go to work with each other as well or at the very least have one thing in common, they all just follow like sheep no matter the evidence.
Look around people and you will find more evidence, don't just take these guys words for it and don't take mine either look for yourselves and you will find the right answer. Yeah, what the guy says here is all true about the air and ice particles etc. but it does not apply to EVERYTHING. The best way to hide in a forest is to dress like a tree, in essence, the best place to hide evil deeds are in plain sight and tell people that it is not only innocent government play but that it is actually good for you. Here they do neither, but it is masqueraded as plane exhaust despite some peoples claims that they saw the pumps turn off and on.
bellaciao.org...


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:13 PM by Phenomium
reply to post by Phenomium


Also here are some photos of threads found in peoples bodies and are nano engineered and have robotic properties.

www.rense.com...

Here is a video for you as well:

(Very Interesting)

video.google.com...

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Phenomium]



reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:31 PM by defcon5
Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
But on occasion I'll see over a dozen planes going by. They go by in a very very short period of time. So quickly that most of the time as one plane is going over tree lines and out of view, there is another plane already coming into view. They are close enough to each other that they could both be captured in the same camera shot.

That is because aircraft are set to arrive at locations in flight banks. This is to facilitate passenger/freight/bag transfers between aircraft and airlines. That is also why airline personnel are not given a lunch break, as they are expected to get breaks between flight banks.

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Why would I believe that its normal to see over a dozen planes all fly by in such a very short period of time, all in the same exact pattern. All so close to each other which is not allowed by FAA rules.

FAA rules require only 1000 feet of separation between flights. While they may look close to each other, they are several thousand feet apart in altitude, which is imperceptible from the ground.

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
And why do I never see planes in my area following each other in the patters going in a different direction? And why do the planes that do follow this pattern always seem to be the type that leave behind a trail?

Aircraft fly VOR's which create patterns in the sky, picture them sort of like invisible roads.

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
And when I call the local airport ( Bar Harbor airport in Trenton Maine ) do they have no answer for where these planes came from, why they were flying so close or where they are headed?

Of course they will not tell you this. First for security reasons. Second because ATC does not have time to sit and answer what they consider “nut calls” (Ufo's, Chemtrails, etc), they are exceptionally busy and have very important real world stuff to deal with (like making sure that those aircraft stay 1000 feet apart). Third because those flight may not be going to your local airport, but could be flying to airports hundreds of miles away.

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
Besides my local airport, there is no nearby airport that I can blame for having this type of traffic.

Why do people always assume it most be from some nearby airport. It could be traffic from all over the place that is timed to into banks at airports that are hundreds of miles away, but they still cross at that VOR at roughly the same time everyday.


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:31 PM by Zepherian
reply to post by thefreepatriot


Well, some of them are legitimate, like the one I just gave you.

Besides, it's not bad that this thread becomes popular, because the chemtrail phenomenon is becoming more visable, and will soon be proven imo. So even a debunking attempt, if failed, will be good for truth.

And the simple truth, as more and more people are becoming aware, is that chemtrails are real, you can't hide them, especially not in front of our life giving sun. Sooner or later they hit group mind. My guess is sooner.


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:54 PM by defcon5
Originally posted by Phenomium
I agree, there are differences that should be noted about contrails and chemtrails but how do you explain things like Morgellons syndrome which has fibers and toxins (some fibers nano-engineered and self replicating) which has been linked to a scientifically observed hepa-filter extraction directly from some of these "chem" trails.

Actually, real scientists, not the nut jobs like Carnicom, have stated that Morgellons is a plant/fungus based infection that is by-passing some peoples immune systems. They have traced this back to contaminated water so far, and also it seems to effect those who work in the dirt a lot. The reason why it “replicates” is because it is a fungus which grows.

Current Morgellons research at a laboratory in Massachusetts shows that individuals affected by Morgellons disease have been in contact with soil and/or water containing cyanobacteria (blue-green algae), algae, aquatic fungi, water molds and lichen (algae and fungi). This assemblage of organisms, and associated bacterial populations, is common in soil and aquatic environments where cryptobiotic soils are present and/or in environments where nutrient rich conditions promote the development of algae blooms. 


Saying that Morgellons is associated with Chemtrails, is like saying its caused by sunlight, there is no correlation between the two.

I really cannot read anymore of your post, its too much in one big paragraph to work through.
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