Introduction to Atlantology

Nice thread sky, thankyou.

I have a question for you as you are quite knowledgeable on the atlantis subject. Amongst my own reasearch (mainly via ATS and google, Discovery ect.), came across a while ago 'the emerald tablets of Thoth. Whilst as an intriguing though they are, i couldn't help feeling it was too good to be true and was a hoax?? So i delved deeper, always says translated by Doreal. The closest i got to finding out was a website that tells of a doctor Doreal who whilst in possesion of the ancient artefacts for a short period whils in transit to their new homw was given permission to translate and make a copy of them.

Skyfloating, please put me out of my misery and tell me if you know of their authenticity or not?

Please People !

Two mod notes ON THIS PAGE to stop the sniping and stay on topic and you start right back in .

You're KILLIN' me !




Edit: (ok, make that - on the previous page - , but I think we get the inference )



[edit on 24/11/08 by Jbird]

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
ON TOPIC - Can someone please link to or post the various cultures that have the Atla, Atlan myth commonality?

None, really.

The Greeks don't have the myth, and niether do the Egyptians.

The Aztecs (that's the one you're thinking of) have a myth of a place with a similar name

There are different accounts of their origin. In the myth the ancestors of the Mexica/Aztec came from a place in the north called Aztlán, the last of seven nahuatlacas (Nahuatl-speaking tribes, from tlaca, "man") to make the journey southward, hence their name "Azteca". Other accounts cite their origin in Chicomostoc, "the place of the seven caves", or at Tamoanchan (the legendary origin of all civilization
source:en.wikipedia.org...

Aztlan doesn't actually fit. The original legend says they came from a place with "seven caves" and that they began their migration about 1000 AD (not BC). They left to found seven cities (there's a great deal of interest among scholars in finding this one. Like Troy, there's a lot of evidence for it being real.)
en.wikipedia.org...

Sumeria doesn't have any legends of a civilization that conquered the Mediterranean and fell in a natural disaster. Nor does Babylon, the Bible (Sodom and Gomorrah weren't conquering the world). Thrace doesn't have any such tale, nor do India or China.

It is sometimes said that the Cherokee legend of "Turtle Island" is similar, but "Turtle Island" wasn't conquering lands across the great ocean (in the original version) and didn't have metal technology.

Originally posted by Byrd

ON TOPIC - Can someone please link to or post the various cultures that have the Atla, Atlan myth commonality?

The Aztecs (that's the one you're thinking of) have a myth of a place with a similar name

Atlan is not a myth btw.

Interesting is that plato described a circular city with canals. The ony culture i know of that have ever practiced that circular form 'beyond the pillars of hercules :'Tiny Mexcaltitan is less than a mile around and sits in the middle of a Nayarit coastal lagoon of the same name. It's said to be Aztlan, the cradle of Aztec civilization and the traditional birthplace of the Mexican people. We'd been hearing how funky the place is, so we decided to venture outside the bay and check it out for ourselves.

Here is a pic.

The Mexicans revere this island as the place they left on their Odyssey to the Valley of Mexico, where they built their Atlantesh called Tenochtitlan (now Mexico City). Notice that the circular shape and canal streets of Mexcaltitán are nearly exactly like Plato's description of the particular "Atlantesh" for which we are searching.

Many patriotic Mexicans want to be buried just off the shores of Mexcaltitán, near the present day coastal village of San Pedro Aztatlán, which most people erroneously call "Aztlán," In Sanskrit, Aztatlán means "Place by the water where the sun sets in the west." However, in Nahuatl it means "Place of Many Herons."

www.viewzone.com...
[FIGURE 8. THE ATLANTESH OF JANITZIO, A VILLAGE LOCATED IN THE MIDDLE OF Lake Patzcuaro, Michoacán.]
www.viewzone.com...








[edit on 24-11-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by Byrd

Byrd - The Aztecs (that's the one you're thinking of) have a myth of a place with a similar name.

It seems I think more than you presume, upon further glance "Atalya" is not only the name used by the Aztecs (that's the one you're thinking of, no?), but is also used by the Basque to describe to describe a mountain they assign to their prehistoric origins.

There are similar pre-historical origin legends using the identical name of "Atalya/Atalia" in the Grand Canaries, as well as in Southern Portugal.

If you click here, you can read all about it

And while you do that, I will look around to see how many others I can find...

Cheers!
TWISI



[edit on 24-11-2008 by TheWayISeeIt]

Originally posted by MCoG1980
Skyfloating, please put me out of my misery and tell me if you know of their authenticity or not?

I dont know

Sorry. I really dont.

But I wont call anything that doesnt match the mainstream a "hoax" though, I'll just say: Dont know. Beware of those who act like they know everything.

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
reply to post by Harte

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't deliberately posting false information and claiming it is true also mentioned somewhere in the terms?

Harte

I see the Tedious Twins have been reunited (waves at Hans in the b.g.)

Hello Harte -

Seeing as I'm here and all, please allow me to correct you for being wrong. Sky is not deliberately posting false information and you know it. He is posting speculative information which, as he so helpfully pointed out and linked to, is the point of this site.

TWISI,

Allow me to correct you.

I have not claimed that Skyfloating is deliberately posting false information.

My second contribution to this thread involved another poster deliberately posting false information:

Originally posted by Lokey13
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Great thread yet again SkyFloating; just hopefully add my two cents before anyone else has mentioned it. I've heard for a long time many different locations for Atlantis, the most recent was the Sahara Desert. Now I understand the Sahara could be the place where they were located due to the fact of Egytian scripts that mention an atlantian empire...

Emphases are mine.

Because I pointed out that there are no such Egyptian "scripts," I was accosted thusly:

Originally posted by Lokey13
reply to post by Harte

 

Well hear you go Harte three connections based on Egypt to Atlantis. I hope you have your fork and knife; get ready to eat some words.

This is one of the first times Atlantis is ever mentioned, and wouldn't you know it says the first story ever told was originally voiced in Egypt.

In Plato's book, Timaeus, a character named Kritias tells an account of Atlantis that has been in his family for generations. According to the character, the story was originally told to his ancestor, Solon, by a priest during Solon's visit to Egypt.

Plato and Atlantis


Here is yet another reference...

It is not an easy question to resolve. Scientists naturally look askance at psychic information – if, that is, they are even aware of it. So, the authors observe, the readings were not used to guide archaeologic explorations over past decades. Consider, too: Turn back the clock beyond 4,000 B.C. and most scholars, especially those in Cayce’s day, believe it was a time of primitive cultures. The readings, however, give accounts of Atlanteans, described as a technologically advanced people, having migrated to Egypt – and other locales – over 12,000 years ago. Also, “the readings mention [human] ancestors as far back as 10 million years ago, and high civilizations 200,000 years ago.” Remains unearthed in recent years and carbon dated are adding more credence to the psychic revelations.

Atlantis - Edgar Cayce

And one final url, with the connections between Ireland, Egypt, and Atlantis and this one has to many quotes to put just on so please read the whole thing.
Egypt, Ireland, and Atlantis

Now Harte since I know you didn't bother to go to google and do the smart thing and look for something connecting the two before you bashed my post; I'm awaiting your apology. Otherwise I'm awaiting the same ignorant answers.

Every communication (involving me) since then has involved me (or Hans) being accused of asking for "proof" or some such drivel.

Speculation is to be expected in a thread like this. But posting complete bull and actually stating that it's factual will result in people who know better pointing out the untruth.

That was the very premise of my post where I pointed out the above untruth.

To wit:

Originally posted by Harte
I don't care that people here play with silly ideas like Atlantis, but when posters state ridiculous claims and aver that they are factual (as was done above) you can expect the contributions of reasoned skeptics to start appearing in this toy thread.

So. What's wrong with me doing that?

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
ON TOPIC - Can someone please link to or post the various cultures that have the Atla, Atlan myth commonality? I know I have read it around here before and think it would be a good subject to also have under consideration here, on this thread which is clearly stated in the OP as a place for Atlantology (ists) and speculation.

I can, but because you won't like the answer, I won't.

I will read what others write though. I hope they don't go too wild and make factual claims concerning the language Nahuatl, which is the language that gives us the terms you ask about. If they do, I'm sure I'll be the subject of even more ignorant derision.

Originally posted by TheWayISeeItI also believe the OP states this thread is not about discussing the tiresome did-or-did-not exist, and how you two get away with being in flagrant violation of the OP over-and-over again is a mystery to me... esp. when you are both wont to accuse SF of having special-latitude as a moderator.
Cheers!
TWISI

I was unaware that the OP of a thread could set the conditions regarding intelligent responses to posts in any particular thread.

Could you please point out to me where in the terms of agreement this rule is found? I must have missed it.

Also, I would like for you to please quote my posts in this thread where I have "discussed" with anyone "over and over again" the existence or non-existence of Atlantis.

IIRC, I've stated only once (in this thread) my opinion that Atlantis never existed and I have yet to ask any poster for any evidence whatsoever.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Harte

[edit on 11/25/2008 by Harte]

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
It seems I think more than you presume, upon further glance "Atalya" is not only the name used by the Aztecs (that's the one you're thinking of, no?), but is also used by the Basque to describe to describe a mountain they assign to their prehistoric origins.

There are similar pre-historical origin legends using the identical name of "Atalya/Atalia" in the Grand Canaries, as well as in Southern Portugal.

I can add to your research by pointing out this page on Wikipedia that has disambiguation of the names.
en.wikipedia.org...

I don't think it's very good evidence for "Atlantology" students to use, because no time period is given for the names (and in the case of the presumed Atlantis, it would have to reliably date to about 11,000 years ago.

It is also a word in Hebrew ( www.thinkbabynames.com... ) that has nothing to do with cities. (Human languages are made up of thousands of individual words (I think the smallest one has about 9,000 words) but humans can only make a limited range of sounds, so there's a lot of words that sound like other words in other languages but aren't related at all.)

It's also (variant spelling) the Spanish word for watchtower (referring to Roman fortress watchtowers) www.huntingtonbeachstatepark.com...


I think one of the great weaknesses of "Atlantology" is that nobody ever goes back to study the documents of antiquity about it. For instance, it's claimed that Strabo mentions Plato mentioning it.

Wikipedia gives a fairly concise summary of these accounts here:
en.wikipedia.org...

I've never actually seen them discussed by any "Atlantologists." They're far more interested in modern texts and channeled texts.

reply to post by Skyfloating


this is a VERY good thread. I do want to say that i had a theory that atlantis is really just an ancient flood stoy llike in alll the other cultures. atlantis is the continant pangea taht was flooded. this later turned into atlantis by the greeks. i dont know if this was the type of thing that you wanted on your thread but i thought i should share it.

reply to post by Byrd


Im currently reading. Excellent. Thank you very much.

Originally posted by IvanZana
Atlan is not a myth btw.

True, and thank you for correcting that. It's a legend (which is to say that it's a story that scholars and scientists believe have a basis in truth although it may have been muddied in retelling.)

Mexcalititan is an interesting place (but wouldn't have been an island at the end of the Ice Age because the sea levels were much lower then.) It's an intriguing looking place, and I'd love to see it for myself someday!

The Mexicans revere this island as the place they left on their Odyssey to the Valley of Mexico, where they built their Atlantesh called Tenochtitlan (now Mexico City). Notice that the circular shape and canal streets of Mexcaltitán are nearly exactly like Plato's description of the particular "Atlantesh" for which we are searching.

As far as I can tell, there's no place called "Atlantesh"... it's not a word in the Aztec language. I think this may be something new added to the language/beliefs ... since the 1900's.

That said, they did have a taste for building things in the middle of bodies of water (much more easily defended). It's an interesting practice, and one that seems to connect the two sites.

However... these people are part of a more modern migration to the Americas from Siberia. They showed up about 5,000 years ago and split into many tribes (which don't have an "Atlantis-like" myth.

In Sanskrit, Aztatlán means "Place by the water where the sun sets in the west." However, in Nahuatl it means "Place of Many Herons."

While I agree with the Nahuatl translation, I think that if you consult a Sanskrit dictionary, you will find that there isn't a word "Aztatlan" in their language. "Astazikhara" and "suuryaasta" and "asta" are among the many words that describe sunset or evening. "ArkakSetra" is "Place of the sun" and "pazcime" means "western direction".

You can check it out here
webapps.uni-koeln.de...
or here:
spokensanskrit.de...
Or here (scan of a book):
www.ibiblio.org...

I think this is one of the two weakest areas of "atlantology", where they connect any word they think sounds like "Atlantis" without looking at the language or when it was spoken. The other weak area is the use of "channeled material" which, frankly, has multiple contradictory results.

I'd like (as I said earlier) to see some exploration of the ancient texts.

The Lady of Elx

It has been suggested that the Lady of Elx - a strange statue discovered in the Tartessos region of unknown origin and uncertain date - is a rare artifact of the Tartessos civilization, and possibly even of Atlantis.

...with an elaborate headdress that does not match any known civilization...

Source: Joe Levy, The Atlas of Atlantis

____________________________________

Most experts believe that the Lady of Elche is a genuine ancient Iberian work

1

It would be interesting to know if, besides the Lady of Guardamar, also found in the region, any other cultures with headdress-styles such as this have been found. If not, then it cannot be ascribed to the Iberians.

upload.wikimedia.org...
here are the "wheels" at another angle. Reminds me of the solar wheels of Taranis(Jupiter) and the Celts


www.kernunnos.com...







Mod Note: Forum Image Linking Policy – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 25/11/08 by Jbird]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thankyou, i would like to believe these tablets exist. If the translationsa are correct then it fits very well with everything i have read and learnt as well as philosophised upon myself. Intruiging,very I also thought that since this was supposidely translated in the 20's the contents of the tablets would surely not be known then????

Basic background to the tablets those who haven't heard of them:
www.crystalinks.com...
www.bwtemple.org...

and a little something to ponder on: please view in order
uk.youtube.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.shamanicjourneys.com...//www.shamanicjourneys.com/articles/thoth.html
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.haarp.alaska.edu...

I really do believe that 'magic' is unknown science.




[edit on 25-11-2008 by MCoG1980]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Umm is it a headress?? Coulds it be a type of machine - ya know like we have headphones and stuff dont we, suposing they were far more advanced than us, i guess there is always the possibilty they also wore technolgy on their bodies too?

The Hindu/Buddists (sp) have the Chakra Wheel and it is also considered a weapon. I found that while searching for wheeled headdresses and headgear.

reply to post by seagrass


Dont know if this helps, looked closest to the Romany Chakra Wheel to me:
iacmusic.com...

Heres another similar bust with similar headphone like headband/dress
en.wikipedia.org...


Got me thinking this. Say it is a machine for a moment, i read something interesting on alarm clocks the other day. Something about some people went to sleep with an Alarm clock on their temple as they felt it brought them closer to god? for an explanation into why i am relating thias see my ATS and youtube links in one of my earlier posts above. I am off to go find the article on it. Sorry if this sounds very confusing but it makes sense to me.

_____________________________________________________________
Cant find it for the life of me but it was menioned as part of an artilcle to do with the below, it was thought the alarm clocks (oldstyle) could have maybe had the same effect,:

www.bbc.co.uk...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.shaktitechnology.com...






[edit on 25-11-2008 by MCoG1980]

Originally posted by MCoG1980
Something about some people went to sleep with an Alarm clock on their temple as they felt it brought them closer to god?

Or maybe they just had serious issues with waking up in time?

If it is a machine, I really dont think its a alarm clock. Maybe its just something as simple as a hearing aid?

reply to post by merka


Sorry, i should have made myself clearer although you are quite right - it could simply be a hearing aid. Please look at the 4 links i provided regarding the god helmet. I meant that the people using the alarm clocks may have experienced a silimar effect, not due to it being a clock, but the internals of it stimulating the temporal lobes.

Too be honest you also need to look at the 2 links i posted earlier to get a full understanding of this and to see how this could actually ring true. It is known that some epileptics have religious ecpienieces/cosmic awakenings. This machine also induces these experiences- and is better received if the wearer has temporal lobe epilepsy, something that some people believe The Prophet Mohammed,Moses and even Julius Caesar to name a few could possibly have had. Now would that be something, World religions based on the words of an epileptic. I also am under investigation for this, my type is called petit mal and therefore have been reasearching this indepth due to personal experiences from my youth.

For your convenience:


sorry if you were getting into that but that covers what is relative to the subject at hand, however if you do wish to watch all 6 videos, follow the link to youtube

www.abovetopsecret.com...

God helmet:

www.bbc.co.uk...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.shaktitechnology.com...


more machinelike headresses:
thewatchers.us...








[edit on 26-11-2008 by MCoG1980]

Maybe they invented the wheel and were really proud of it? Doesn't look like that fad will come back anytime soon. I've never seen anything like it except in Star Wars.