Introduction to Atlantology, page 7
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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 02:50 PM by matsplat
www.divejapan.com...

Another part of Mu / Lemuria / Europa? or just another part of another 'ancient lost continent?


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 07:06 AM by TruthTellist
This mysterious artifact is about 2000 years old and was found in a tomb in South America. Compare this with modern delta wing aircraft. A scaled to, proof-of-concept model was also built and flown - outside of a conference held to "scientifically debunk" (sound familiar?) the artifacts as nothing more than insect trinkets - insects with vertical & horizontal stabilizers


i17.tinypic.com...

There is a larger selection showing variations but also displaying distinct commonalities (such as stabilizers & control surfaces).

In any case, here are the guys who showed up at the "scientific debunking" with their scale model aircraft, which they flew around in front of everyone who was attending the 'debunking.' The debunker was quite stoic; he didn't even appear to notice the laughter... perhaps he thought they were laughing at someone else.




*Tomorrow I will bring you some more ancient aircraft.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by TruthTellist]


Mod Note: Forum Image Linking Policy – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 21/11/08 by Jbird]


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 07:41 AM by TruthTellist
reply to post by Harte



Thank you for ignoring the OP.

I would like it if you would refrain from your current activities and relegate yourself to those specified by Skyfloating in his OP.


reply posted on 21-11-2008 @ 10:50 AM by Harte
Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to
post by Harte



Thank you for ignoring the OP.

I would like it if you would refrain from your current activities and relegate yourself to those specified by Skyfloating in his OP.


I would like it if you would stop posting fiction as fact.

What's the matter, not enough facts out there? Have to make some up?

Harte


reply posted on 24-11-2008 @ 06:32 AM by mortalengine
Originally posted by Nohup
Originally posted by Skyfloating
Atlantis is merely an umbrella term for an Empire that was spread across the entire earth.


Personally, I don't think it's such a good idea to use "Atlantis" as a generic term for a hypothetical prehistoric, world-encompassing civilization. I tend to think that Atlantis, as specifically described by Plato, would have had limited cultural influence in primarily the Western Europe/Northern Africa, Mediterranean, and Caribbean areas, possibly with the inclusion of northern South America. Influence in North America was probably minimal, due to the difficulties with remaining post-Ice Age ice, and a wide, marshy, difficult-to-navigate shoreline along the North American east coast.

I sincerely doubt that they had any real contact or influence with southern South America, the Indian Subcontinent, or any part of eastern Asia, including Australia or the southern Pacific Islands. Other significant, as-yet-undiscovered civilizations might have had influence in these areas, but not specifically Atlantis.

There may have been some insignificant contact between these other hypothetical civilizations and the Atlantic civilization, but for the most part, I suspect that a lot of the supposed similarities in culture and seminal mythologies are probably a result of good old Jungian archetypes popping up in different places at the same time.

Anyway, I prefer to keep Atlantis in the Atlantic. They may have had a somewhat developed civilization, with a relatively good handle on agriculture, law, and seafaring, but I doubt that they were such incredible (literally) globetrotters.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Nohup]


Didn't Plato use the word Atlantis in the same way we use the word Eutopia today ? This is what I thought when I read a bit of his descriptions of the place. Having said that, I do strongly believe that it was based on an actual civilisation but that it was gone for so long that it becomes a concept instead of a real civilization. Kind of like the supposed "fall of man" in the Garden of Eden scenario. It's all a reflection back on a state we once had but lost due to whatever reason.

I realise today's necessity for "solid" evidence and facts etc but at the same time I truly believe we need to give more credence to what we call "myths" today. We cant just assume that our ancestors were a bunch of morons who dreamt up fanciful "Gods" and then believed their own lies - these people built some pretty advanced buildings and had amazing knowledge of the skies - we should probably give them a little more credit than what we currently do these days.



reply posted on 24-11-2008 @ 07:25 AM by Skyfloating
Hello.

Having abandoned this thread a few pages back, I was hoping it would trickle out and just stop. Apparently not.

Directed at Harte & Hanslune

I am very reluctant to discuss things I've already discussed with you in many other threads - without conclusion.

You show up at this website dedicated to non-mainstream ideas with a set of of mainstream concepts. I suppose you are not interested discussing with like-minded people on the 100000000000000+ websites dedicated to mainstream concepts?

As a member (not as a Moderator!), I would like to quote a few ATS policies:


(ATS is...)

It is a statement against the paradigm.

It is a rage against the mindless status-quo.

1




(1) We ATS members need to embrace and welcome those with highly speculative theories that may be based on little more than guesses. These are the ideas that help maintain the upper limits of what may be.

(2) We ATS members need to support the investigation of fantastic ideas based on evidentiary observations across the entire spectrum of our topics. These are the discussions that zero-in on what is likely to be.
2

Finally, I would like to offer this for your consideration:

No more ridicule

So while skepticism and disagreement are welcome, I (as a member of ATS) would like to remind you that far-out-speculation beyond mainstream facts is not only valid here but even necessary.

As I mentioned elsewhere: When someone commits a murder it is more likely that evidence of this is completely hidden rather than out in the open. A police officer, for example, mustnt wait until he finds evidence before he follows up on his search. The very basis of conspiracy-theory and mystery-research presupposes that evidence is scant.

Using the "no proof" slogan too frequently, as you two do from thread to thread to thread runs counter to this.

__________________________________________

What does this have to do with Atlantis?

Atlantology wouldnt exist if it did not presuppose that evidence has been wiped-out...almost completely. How? Maybe by a worldwide disaster of gigantic proportions. Maybe by a cover-up for unknown reasons.

So, if the evidence is wiped-out or no longer remembered, why do we still suspect Atlantis may have existed?

Well, if someone commits murder and removes the evidence, the police-officer has to go by rumor, hearsay and tiny fragments of indicators. In Atlantology we have to go by what the ancients said.

In this analogy, the police officer will not say "Well, there's no evidence of a murder having occured, so I'll just leave this alone." The murderer who threw the body into the river grins: "There is indeed no more evidence".

The tiny fragments (indicators) were listed in the second post of this thread.

The goal of the Atlantologist is:

To find evidence for the existence of advanced civilizations long before ours

Most of us disagree with the mainstream notions that:

* "We are the fist and only advanced civilization, all that came before us were the less advanced and the savages"

Instead: Advanced Civilizations come and go, in cycles (rather than one evolutionary line from bottom to top). "Advanced" does not necessarily always mean owning the same technology that we own. It can also refer to spiritual abilities.

* "Mythological and Religious accounts were purely fictitious and are unimportant"

Instead: Mythology and Religion are based on real events (many of which were mis-interpreted or incompletely remembered)

* "Our origins are a coincidence as a result of random chemical-reactions".

Instead: Our origins are no coincidence but part of a bigger Cosmology and Design.

* "We are alone in the Universe"

Instead: Exchange with other lifeforms, planets and dimensions has been going on since Millions of years.

* "There are no out-of-place artifacts. Everything has already been explained"

Instead: There are many thousands of OOPA that dont fit into the extremely narrow band of mainstream thought.


reply posted on 24-11-2008 @ 09:28 AM by Harte
Originally posted by Skyfloating

Directed at Harte & Hanslune

I am very reluctant to discuss things I've already discussed with you in many other threads - without conclusion.

I never doubted that you were hesitant. I would be too, if I took some of your positions.

But you've already shown you can't seriously make these arguments when you threw up your hands and walked off after I pointed out a falsehood deliberately posted as a fact earlier in this thread.

Originally posted by SkyfloatingYou show up at this website dedicated to non-mainstream ideas with a set of of mainstream concepts. I suppose you are not interested discussing with like-minded people on the 100000000000000+ websites dedicated to mainstream concepts?

Why would you assume I don't discuss these things with like-minded people as well as ATS posters?

Also:
ATS's motto, then, counts for nothing?

How do you suspend a motto like "Deny Ignorance?"

I trust it will be "okay with you" if I point out falsehoods that have been professed as factual in this thread?

After all, that is all I have done here.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
As a member (not as a Moderator!), I would like to quote a few ATS policies:

(1) We ATS members need to embrace and welcome those with highly speculative theories that may be based on little more than guesses. These are the ideas that help maintain the upper limits of what may be.

(2) We ATS members need to support the investigation of fantastic ideas based on evidentiary observations across the entire spectrum of our topics. These are the discussions that zero-in on what is likely to be.
2


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't deliberately posting false information and claiming it is true also mentioned somewhere in the terms?

Harte


reply posted on 24-11-2008 @ 04:11 PM by TheWayISeeIt
reply to post by Harte




Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't deliberately posting false information and claiming it is true also mentioned somewhere in the terms?

Harte


I see the Tedious Twins have been reunited (waves at Hans in the b.g.)

Hello Harte -

Seeing as I'm here and all, please allow me to correct you for being wrong. Sky is not deliberately posting false information and you know it. He is posting speculative information which, as he so helpfully pointed out and linked to, is the point of this site.

ON TOPIC - Can someone please link to or post the various cultures that have the Atla, Atlan myth commonality? I know I have read it around here before and think it would be a good subject to also have under consideration here, on this thread which is clearly stated in the OP as a place for Atlantology (ists) and speculation.

I also believe the OP states this thread is not about discussing the tiresome did-or-did-not exist, and how you two get away with being in flagrant violation of the OP over-and-over again is a mystery to me... esp. when you are both wont to accuse SF of having special-latitude as a moderator.

Cheers!
TWISI


reply posted on 24-11-2008 @ 05:28 PM by Skyfloating
reply to post by TheWayISeeIt



Thanks for responding for me. There's someone who can tell speculation apart from lying....but I didnt expect him to be able too.

The language connection: If you find a good list, post it. If not I'll post on it later.

Here's something that hasnt been posted on ATS yet:


A Hebrew treatise on computational astronomy dated to AD 1378/79, apparently a paraphrase of an unknown earlier Islamic work, alludes to the Atlantis myth in a discussion concerning the determination of zero points for the calculation of longitude:

Some say that they [the inhabited regions] begin at the beginning of the western ocean [the Atlantic] and beyond. For in the earliest times [literally: the first days] there was an island in the middle of the ocean. There were scholars there, who isolated themselves in [the pursuit of] philosophy. In their day, that was the [beginning for measuring] the longitude[s] of the inhabited world. Today, it has become [covered by the?] sea, and it is ten degrees into the sea; and they reckon the beginning of longitude from the beginning of the western sea.[23]


Source: ^ Selin, Helaine 2000, Astronomy Across Cultures: The History of Non-Western Astronomy
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