I usually ignore things like this to do with Barack Obama, because I think it's just silly, usually just some people trying to stir up things because they don't like him.

But I must admit this sound interesting, I'll research to see how much truth this has.

Thanks a lot.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I usually ignore things like this to do with Barack Obama,

The link to Obama is the authors conclusion. It could mean someone else entirely. Or it could also be a fake quote that is out and about. I don't have any SUFI texts in the house so I can't comment on the authenticity. That's why I put it out in the hopes that someone will have a knowledge of Sufism and can let us know about this, and any other prophecies by Ali ibn Abi-Talib.

Muslims believe Muhammad is the final prophet of the Abrahmic God, meaning there are no more prophets after him. He is known as the "Seal of the prophets." The term "Imam" does not mean "prophet" but rather a Masjid's (church's) "leader." It's usage is equivalent to being known as a "priest."

Commanding "the strongest army on earth," the new ruler in the West will carry "a clear sign" from the third imam, whose name was Hussein Ibn Ali. The tradition concludes: "Shiites should have no doubt that he is with us."

In a curious coincidence Obama's first and second names--Barack Hussein--mean "the blessing of Hussein"

I believe this is the part that is confusing you: "[...] the new ruler in the West will carry "a clear sign" from the third imam, whose name was Hussein Ibn Ali."

First, Ibn is not a name. It means "son of" in Arabic. Example of this is if a male is named Hassan, and his father is named "Ali" the son's title will be "Ali ibn Hassan." Many times, to trace lineage, the entire son's title will include the names of grandfathers, great grandfathers, and so on.

Example: "Hassan ibn Ali ibn Shareef ibn Talib ibn Harun." Which means "Hassan (son of) Ali (son of) Shareef (son of) Talib (son of) Harun."

So in that quote that mentions the title "Hussein Ibn Ali," it means "Hussein son of Ali."

Next point I will make is that it's not saying that the "new ruler" is named "Hussein Ibn Ali." It's saying that the new ruler will carry a clear sign from the third Imam named "Hussein Ibn Ali." Who is the third Imam? It's the same person being discussed in the article - Ali ibn Abi Talib. His full title is Hussain ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib, meaning "Hussain son of Ali son of Abi the teacher."

Since Ali is the son-in-law of Muhammad, "Hussein ibn Ali," signifies that it is Ali's son that is the third imam that the article discusses, not Obama.

Next, "Barack Hussein's" name is quoted in the article as meaning "The blessing of Hussein," which is misleading. Barack means "Blessed" and Hussein means "handsome." When used in that order it means "Blessed Handsome."

(P.S. It's "Muslims" not Islamics )

[edit on 17-11-2008 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by kvaniu
There is no such things as a Islamics; learn a little about a religion before commenting on it followers of Islam are called Muslims.

Get a grip. No where did I comment on the religion.

I said I didnt' know about it and was asking a question.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Since Ali is the son-in-law of Muhammad, "Hussein ibn Ali," signifies that it is Ali's son that is the third imam that the article discusses, not Obama.

If I'm following you - the author of the article is transposing this prophecy to 2008 - when in fact it was made for closer to the year 700 or so?

Like Revelation in the bible? Some say the 666 (or 616) figure is an antichrist that is to show up now, and others say that figure was really NERO back in the time of the 'prophecy'?

Like that?

I don't know anything about the Sufis, but would love to learn.
Do you know if there are any books translated into English?

The quotes of Muhammad's lineage, even though they sound like prophecies are not prophecies because his descendants are not prophets.

If it's a prophesy, then it is not Islamic in nature, because to make a prophecy, one has to be a prophet and Muslims do not believe in the authenticity of any prophets after Muhammad.

The prophets that came before Muhammad: Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Ismail, Joseph, Jesus, Jonas, etc., are all prophets of Islam, and these are prophecies we will also believe in, along with Muhammad's.

You're asking if this "prophecy" relates to the 7th century. First, one has to establish that the source is correctly cited - Ali's son, and next one has to establish if it were translated correctly.

Then you would have to see any other verses before and after his quote, to know in detail if he were referring to a specific person living in the time period, or if it were someone who has yet to exist.

Muslims do not use the same years that we use in the US to categorize dates. For example, we in the US use the year 2008 CE to signify this year, because the year 0 is made to correlate to the birth of Jesus. But in the Middle East, the current year is 1429, because the year 0 signifies Muhammad's pilgrimage to Medina.

From what I read in the article, the author wants to make it seem like Obama is the imam prophesiesed, which is far from what Suffis will believe.

There is not enough information in the article to know exactly who the verses are referring to, and which chapters he referenced. It could very well be that he combined verses from different chapters to make multiple individuals seem like one person.

To shorten it up, Sufism is one of the three largest branches of Islam, where Sufis put more emphasis in enlightenment of the mind through meditation and spiritual aspiration. It's commonly misrepresented as the "Magical" sect of Islam, when there is nothing magic in nature about the practices. Sufis see the path to God as a scientific one, that can be attained by enlightening one's soul and bringing it closer to God by combining science, the metaphysical, and religion into one. They are trying to obtain what Christians know as "sainthood."

Some good books to read regarding Sufis is "Mystical Dimensions of Islam" by Annemarie Schimmel. "Sufism: Love and Wisdom" by Jean-Louis Michon. And "The Shambhala Guide to Sufism" by Carl W. Phd Ernst.

One regarding female saints in Islam is "Women of Sufism: A Hidden Treasure" by Camille Adams Helminsk.

There are non-religious works from Sufis as well, which have been world renown for some time, such as from the 13th century poet named Rumi.

His poems can be found www.khamush.com.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by DJMessiah]

Best way to verify a prophecy? Use your nose.
Smell that two-week old mackerel?

FlyersFan - I'd say your underlying instinct was correct, the instinct that made you use the word 'allegedly'..