Radical Homosexual Terrorism, page 12

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:11 PM

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reply to post by Lightmare

Wait a minute Lucid, you just got done saying that social stigmas againsts gays are CAUSED by strict adherence to religious beliefs. Here you are implying that people are using religion to justify a prejudice that they already have. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Some are already homophobic and use the Bible to justify their feelings.
Some are misled into thinking that God doesn't approve of homosexuality.
Some are gay themselves and hate themselves for it so they lash out on others using the Bible as a justification.

There are few instances of those who truly are homophobic and are not religious.

JohnnyElohim

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:12 PM

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Originally posted by Bigwhammy, ye mighty thread starter
The fact that the group proudly labels themselves as terrorist makes it a mute point as far as I am concerned. Yet I was astonished to see a few would still attempt to belabor the point. In reflecting on this perplexing state of affairs, I have come to a realization. Einsteins theory aside, the perception of terrorism is relative to the eye of the observer.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

After all, there was cheering in the streets in most Muslim nations on 9/12. I watched them in disgust on the nightly news. They were genuinely pleased with the death and destruction. This situation is a microcosm, but the same rule applies. It delineates the values of the observers. One look at the two statements released by the two opposing parties will let you know who stands for what...

Before I move on to the snippet you've so deviously quoted and interpreted with such a heavy heart, I'd just like to say: you really think the Muslims cheering after 9/11 were cheering death and destruction? Haven't you seen enough to know that people cheer all sorts of horrible things under entirely false pretenses? I mean, when Americans cheered our invasion of Iraq -- shock and awe and so on, and completely disregarded the astonishing count of civilian lives ended by American actions ... do you suppose they were cheering for the death and destruction, or some mistaken notion of nobility?

Those who do not perceive the criminal acts of Bash Back as terrorist activity, are on this side:

Bash Back! is devoted to exposing, confronting, challenging,
and smashing our oppressors to itsy bitsy pieces. We're
fixing to tear this world of heteronormative control to
shreds. We are everywhere and will meet you at every
opportunity. There are now BB! Chapters in Milwaukee,
Chicago, Colorado, Memphis, Upstate New York, Lansing,
DC, Philly, and Olympia. It won't be long before we come
for you !
bashbacknews.wordpress.com...

Now that sounds like a threat of terrorism to me, clearly many at ATS do not think so. I have a hard time understanding those individuals because I do not share their values. It is my belief that each little decision between right and wrong we make in life defines who we are.

If this is any kind of terrorism, it's ontological terrorism. They are vowing to scare people by challenging their entrenched world view. Do you really think the people who said "smashing our oppressors to itsy bitsy pieces" actually intend real violence, or is it more likely that they're being flashy and dramatic in declaring their political agenda? Sheesh.

You may say words are cheap, but let me remind you. Bash back is committing criminal acts while invading a peaceful worship service. The church did not retaliate but prayed for the group to find peace. Their actions, as well as their words flow out of their hearts. What you might consider, is the stance you entrenched yourself in while defending this group, defines your heart as well.

Good day!
[edit on 11/19/2008 by Bigwhammy]

I didn't include the church's quote, though I agree those are fine words. The trouble is, it's easy to spout platitudes when you occupy the dominant position. And have no doubt: right now, right-wing Christian moralists do occupy the dominant position. Bash Back! didn't do anyone any harm. They made some people uncomfortable in demanding that they be given the same quality of life as a heterosexual. These issues are so thorny precisely because heterosexuals are rarely/i] challenged, rarely abused, rarely denied rights, and rarely looked at sideways because of their choice in gender-oriented sexual preference. If a Christian is so accepting, so willing to defend the underdog, she should do more than make platitudes. She should defend the rights of "sinners" with fervor.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by JohnnyElohim]

[edit on 19-11-2008 by JohnnyElohim]

Lucid Lunacy

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone

If you like your life ..then go and live it

Excuse me? I am.

I don't have any doctrine btw that gives me reason to feel ill about heterosexuals. I have ZERO reason to treat or feel differently about heterosexuals. And so I DON'T. I am not the one trying to judge or infringe on other peoples lives due to sexual orientation...

..let those who are miserable and have nothing to do but sit around and blame christians for all the worlds misery do all the complaining

You just blamed all homosexuals for hurting themselves!

It's okay if you blame us though I guess

so why not just learn to get along with them and let them get to know YOU the person ..not you the Bisexual ..if your proud of it

You know nothing about me or what I do outside of ATS.

you act like being gay is a religion or something ......defending it religiously

And what do you act like then? Defending the idea that homosexuals are choosing to be homosexual. That they are going to hell if they don't repent and continuing to live a homosexual life. Which you do religiously! What does this act make you??

Here is my religion:

Compassion.
Humility.
Understanding.

I don't always follow them, but I try.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

JohnnyElohim

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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I tried twice to fix the broken tag in the above post, but alas, it is not meant to be.

JohnnyElohim

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Lightmare
WRONG!!!

Uh, right. So I just have to say: you have got to stop opening all of your rebuttals with a one or two word, all-caps denunciation of everything your opponent has just said. It's just terrible form.

angel of lightangelo

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by Lightmare

I think somebody's childhood is showing...

The social stigma is based on the fact that overly masculine tough guys view homosexuality as weakness. They view gay guys as weakling wimps that are good for nothing more than getting picked on and kicked around. They view homosexuality as threat to the ways of alpha male masculinity. Why? I really don't know for sure. But it has nothing to do with the Bible or anything religious for that matter.

Poor tyke. Picked on ya cuz you were no good at sports? liked to cook with mom too much? What was it? Times have changed, my friend. That is grammar school. You can talk all you like of hypotheticals that you yourself have no intention of proving any time soon. Unfortunately, facts and data belie your childhood annecdote. It is nice to just say stuff that we want to be true in order to be right. Saddly, you just saying things does not make it so. The year is 2008. Look at the crime statisitics yourself. Go see who is beating up on gay people. I know I already said this once and was called gay for it but......I will be right here, let me know what you find.

Lucid Lunacy

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Lightmare

WRONG!!!

I hope you don't think screaming and using more exclamation marks will convince me by itself. I am impervious to Church indoctrination, I am also impervious to your yelling. Just express your thoughts, and present your evidence. We will go from there.

The social stigma is based on the fact that overly masculine tough guys view homosexuality as weakness. They view gay guys as weakling wimps that are good for nothing more than getting picked on and kicked around. ...But it has nothing to do with the Bible or anything religious for that matter.

Thank you for your theory. It was appreciated.

After you're done getting your ass kicked, ask the big, mean, masculine, biker dude why he hates you so much. He will probalby tell you that you are a girlie man and a wussy

So after you are done making the assumptions that I am a wimpy girlie man wussy... maybe you can grow up and actually have a grown up discussion with me? Why do you assume I fit this profile?

In fact, it seems like your theory is dependent on the myth that all gay men are wussy girlie men to begin with. (also to note: the obvious omitting of lesbians).

Deaf Alien

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Lightmare

The social stigma is based on the fact that overly masculine tough guys view homosexuality as weakness. They view gay guys as weakling wimps that are good for nothing more than getting picked on and kicked around. They view homosexuality as threat to the ways of alpha male masculinity. Why? I really don't know for sure. But it has nothing to do with the Bible or anything religious for that matter.

I know quite a few gay men who can take on hundreds of those masculine tough bikers without breaking a sweat.

angel of lightangelo

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Thanks for repostiing that, I forgot to mention how much this poor straight guy who is bombarded with gayery from the world over, really enjoys describe big bad men dont he?

ask the big, mean, masculine, biker dude

He just left out rippling muscles and sweaty or heaving something.

Velvet Death

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:45 PM
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Going into a church to interrupt a godfest is not terrorism. It was just horrible they unfurled banner ieds, scattered pamphlet and condom land mines everywhere and spouted propaganda. What other insidious devices will they use next to open people minds. Better create a green zone around the church and mobilize the military before the next attacks takes place.

OMG Children might ask mom or dad what a condom is. Oh the horror of explaining alternate life styles you don't understand to questioning minds before they can be brain washed to religious dogma like you.

Lightmare

posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
So after you are done making the assumptions that I am a wimpy girlie man wussy... maybe you can grow up and actually have a grown up discussion with me? Why do you assume I fit this profile?

In fact, it seems like your theory is dependent on the myth that all gay men are wussy girlie men to begin with. (also to note: the obvious omitting of lesbians).

Please understand it is NOT MY assumption and NOT MY viewpoint at all. But rather, it is the consistent sumation of everything that I have heard come from the mouths of NON-RELIGIOUS homophobes ever since as far back as I can remember and all the way up to this present time. Again...please note that it is the viewpoint that has been repeatedly uttered by NON-RELIGIOUS HOMOPHOBES. And that is the point I have been trying to make.

I am NOT a homophobe. I am NOT your enemy. And neither are any Christians that I have ever met. I am trying like crazy to get this point across to you.

Lucid Lunacy

posted on Nov, 20 2008 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by Lightmare

Lightmare. (cool username btw)

You are failing to see my point.

I believe you. But only about you. See?

Your actions, and your testimony about your life experiences. I will trust your word.

BUT this does not negate the observable experiences of myself, and the rest of the Nation. That is my point. There is plenty of observable evidence to the contrary of what you are saying... this is my point.

Your theory cannot be the truth behind homophobic feelings, because it completely dismisses women. Any theory for homosexuality has to address women too. There is sooo many other holes in it that I could address, but the women aspect is the most obvious.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

angel of lightangelo

posted on Nov, 20 2008 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by Lightmare

Please understand it is NOT MY assumption and NOT MY viewpoint at all. But rather, it is the consistent sumation of everything that I have heard come from the mouths of NON-RELIGIOUS homophobes ever since as far back as I can remember and all the way up to this present time

In your world. Please do not forget the details. The crime reports still say what they say. Your life experience and my life experience are very very different, I assure you. Unfortunately, neither one of us can saythat what we have experienced in some way changes the reality of the outside world. Please, stop being scared and go outside. It seems you are surrounded by gay people that cannot stop talking about sex, your internet has a gay porn agenda against you, and the world outside is full of "big scary biker" men, and don't forget all the deviant gays you have not gotten an account from yet. Your world sounds very scary. Maybe you just need more friends. Please, let's join a book club together, I will take you outside and show it is safe and ok. You can even wear that pretty dress you keep trying to get the rest of us to put on for you.

Lightmare

posted on Nov, 20 2008 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Lightmare

Lightmare. (cool username btw)

You are failing to see my point.

I believe you. But only about you. See?

Your actions, and your testimony about your life experiences. I will trust your word.

BUT this does not negate the observable experiences of myself, and the rest of the Nation. That is my point. There is plenty of observable evidence to the contrary of what you are saying... this is my point.

Your theory cannot be the truth behind homophobic feelings, because it completely dismisses women. Any theory for homosexuality has to address women too. There is sooo many other holes in it that I could address, but the women aspect is the most obvious.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Thanks, I literally had smoke coming out of my ears while trying to come up with a name to use on here.

Here is what appears to be situation right now. You are trying to convince me that my religion is the undisputed root cause for all homophobia. While I'm trying to convince you that it is not, and that homophobia needs no religion in order to exist. You see the problem here?

We could probably find new ways to keep debating this until the apocalypse knocks out the internet. And who knows, maybe we will. It seems like we are both the kind of guys who enjoy a good debate. And there is nothing wrong with that if you ask me.

Feel free to poke as many holes in my theory as you wish. Just don't be too surprised if show up tomorrow with ways to fill them back in.

Anyways I need to sign out for the night. Have a good night, Lucid.

Time=Now

posted on Nov, 20 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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It's interesting to note that Arnold posed for gay porn...

angel of lightangelo

posted on Nov, 20 2008 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by Lightmare

Here is what appears to be situation right now. You are trying to convince me that my religion is the undisputed root cause for all homophobia. While I'm trying to convince you that it is not, and that homophobia needs no religion in order to exist. You see the problem here?

I know this is not to me. Lightmare gave up losing to me awhile back. I think we could all reach a bridge here. I, for one, never made such absoloutes. I never said anything was the sole cause nor that either needed the other to exsist. Just stating the way most things are. Lunacy can certainly speak for himself, better than I could, but I never got that he was trying to pin it down in such absoloute terms either. I think I see where the misconstruing really lies.

I will just say that religion is not the cause of homophobia and homophobia would exsist without it. People will always develop biases. Groups of people will form with similar biases. Right now, and for a looooooooooong time, they use religion for the most part/more often than not. But that is just me. I guess some people need everything to be black and white. My world is very gray and that makes it tough for everyone to be happy but I am not for making anyone miserable if it does not benefit me to do so, nor harm me to let them be.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

Lucid Lunacy

posted on Nov, 20 2008 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Lightmare
You are trying to convince me that my religion is the undisputed root cause for all homophobia.

If that's what you think then you misread some of my posts. I think it's the primary cause here in the States. Not all, but the majority. That's my position. Also, I don't want to convince you of anything you are not a willing participant in

I would expand on why I think your theory is unsound but we probably shouldn't, as it is very OT. You could make a thread about this specific theory though

Good night then
May your dream World be one with less suffering

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

VitriolAndAngst

posted on Nov, 20 2008 @ 02:40 AM
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Terrorism?

I think I'm terrorized by the overuse of this word. I am NOT terrorized, by fashion disasters and condoms thrown by upset activists.

Using this term, is a way to NOT listen to a group of people -- which is a great way to escalate violence. I'm sure people are calling gays hypocrites -- as if they understood the word.

Fighting back, with the same things that have been dumped on you -- is fighting back. If the Gay activists start whining about Condoms being thrown at them -- THEN they will be hypocrites.

>> Religion Inc. is going to come face to face with their own corruption pretty soon. I notice that during the Wall Street bailout it was estimated that half a percent of that money, about $32 Billion could be used to set up farming co-ops around the world that would end hunger. But hey, if these religions actually spent all their money HELPING THE POOR and in need, they would lose all that damn desperation and evil that gives them such a hard on.

Jezus

posted on Nov, 20 2008 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by Lightmare
You are trying to convince me that my religion is the undisputed root cause for all homophobia. While I'm trying to convince you that it is not, and that homophobia needs no religion in order to exist.

While not YOUR religion specifically, the entire basis for homophobia revolves around religion in general.

While you personally may not think your feelings are caused by religion, the origin of homophobia is religion.

saint4God

posted on Nov, 20 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Maybe I am overly ignorant about this church but what kind of church is it that they have security guards to begin with?

Churches historically had an open door policy with literally an open door during the day for people to just walk in. In cities these days, not only are the doors closed, but locked on non-service hours and have an alarm system. Any guesses as to why?